Headers or stock manifold?
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Registered User
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 53
From: North[western] New Jersey
Headers or stock manifold?
Hi Folks,
I've got a '70 Cutlass with a near original 350/2bbl carb. I don't plan on doing motor work or upgrading the fuel delivery anytime soon; I have plenty of other projects first besides the car runs beautifully as-is and I like the originality of it all HOWEVER the Olds motor needs to be heard.
The plan was to run dual exhaust with Flowmasters. Then I got thinking...should I be investing in headers as well? At this moment I want the duals for the look and sound over the performance benefits although the performance enhancement can't hurt...
How much will not having headers affect the sound? Is it stupid to not go with headers? If anyone has suggestions on a brand/style I'd love to hear what you'd recommend. While I'm not overly concerned with cost, I do want to stay within a budget I have yet to draw up... meaning I don't think ceramic coated headers are necessary.
Thanks for your input,
I've got a '70 Cutlass with a near original 350/2bbl carb. I don't plan on doing motor work or upgrading the fuel delivery anytime soon; I have plenty of other projects first besides the car runs beautifully as-is and I like the originality of it all HOWEVER the Olds motor needs to be heard.
The plan was to run dual exhaust with Flowmasters. Then I got thinking...should I be investing in headers as well? At this moment I want the duals for the look and sound over the performance benefits although the performance enhancement can't hurt...
How much will not having headers affect the sound? Is it stupid to not go with headers? If anyone has suggestions on a brand/style I'd love to hear what you'd recommend. While I'm not overly concerned with cost, I do want to stay within a budget I have yet to draw up... meaning I don't think ceramic coated headers are necessary.
Thanks for your input,
Last edited by 96powerstroke; Mar 28, 2017 at 01:47 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,734
From: West Hartford, CT
It's cheaper & easier to just put in a dual exhaust system but less of a performance increase than installing headers. I don't know how much benefit headers would be w/ 2V intake.
If you plan to add 4V later it might be the right play to dive in & put headers in now then aquire carb & intake which with a little tuning will certainly allow you to have a noticeable power increase. Use a Qjet & you'll probably get better mileage than w/ the 2V with a light foot, definitely a bigger grin when less discipline is applied.
If you plan to add 4V later it might be the right play to dive in & put headers in now then aquire carb & intake which with a little tuning will certainly allow you to have a noticeable power increase. Use a Qjet & you'll probably get better mileage than w/ the 2V with a light foot, definitely a bigger grin when less discipline is applied.
Last edited by bccan; Mar 28, 2017 at 01:56 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,972
From: Braceville, Ohio
Your on a "slippery slope" because when you start doing one thing you'll run into MAW. Might As Well while I'm at it, do this or do that, my opinion is leave it alone and if and when the muffler goes bad replace it with a glass pack. Jmo. Enjoy your nice quite Oldsmobile.
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,495
From: Poteau, Ok
Aside from the performance benefit, the sound will be a bit different with long tube headers vs manifold. If you just want loud then use your manifolds and install duals with the muffler of your choice.
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,817
From: Rowlett, TX
Keep the manifolds for the time being and use Dynomax Super Turbos. They flow better and sound better than the Flowmasters. Most guys on here prefer them . Use the search function are read about them. Most of what you install could be used with header later.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 348
From: MN
It's pretty common knowledge among the guys I know who have experience building engines that headers on a stock motor setup do virtually nothing for enhancing performance. I converted to dual exhaust and Dynomax Super Turbos as mentioned and am happy with it...until if and when the time comes when I decide to build my engine.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,221
From: Edmond, OK
If you're building your car one piece at a time and you know you want headers on it then have it done. Do it, do it now!
I suggest saving your money and buying good quality headers though. Buying a cheap set of Summit headers won't cost much but the paint will incinerate the moment you start the engine and you might have to use a BFH when installing them. Nobody likes the look of dented, banged up and rusted headers... well maybe some rednecks do.
If you don't install headers now and decide to do them later it will just cost you slightly more in the long run. The exhaust shop that does the install will have to modify your pipes to mate to the collector. While this cost is probably negligible it's something to think about.
BTW, from your user name I can see you are a learned man of refinement and sensibility. We all know how much better the Powerstroke is than the Cummins or the Duramax, some of us pretend otherwise though. A 1999-2007 Powerstroke or a 1983-1993 IDI is in my future.
I suggest saving your money and buying good quality headers though. Buying a cheap set of Summit headers won't cost much but the paint will incinerate the moment you start the engine and you might have to use a BFH when installing them. Nobody likes the look of dented, banged up and rusted headers... well maybe some rednecks do.
If you don't install headers now and decide to do them later it will just cost you slightly more in the long run. The exhaust shop that does the install will have to modify your pipes to mate to the collector. While this cost is probably negligible it's something to think about.
BTW, from your user name I can see you are a learned man of refinement and sensibility. We all know how much better the Powerstroke is than the Cummins or the Duramax, some of us pretend otherwise though. A 1999-2007 Powerstroke or a 1983-1993 IDI is in my future.
Last edited by Olds64; Mar 29, 2017 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Oh yeah...
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,495
From: Poteau, Ok
[QUOTE=crimsoncolby;1003214]It's pretty common knowledge among the guys I know who have experience building engines that headers on a stock motor setup do virtually nothing for enhancing performance. I converted to dual exhaust and Dynomax Super Turbos as mentioned and am happy with it...until if and whe.
Sorry I disagree, long tube headers do increase performance on a stock engine. The Dynomax turbos are pretty quiet compared to what the op wants
I beg to differ on the Cummins vs Powerstroke debate. The early 24v Cummins were awesome. On the Powerstrokes, the 7.3 was a great engine, everything that came after until recent was problematic junk. You practically can't give away a 6.0 and the 6.4 Powerstroke. The current 6.7 is ok but you have to comply with emissions (as all the manufacturers do also) and run urea fluid to keep it all clean. I've never been a fan of the Duromax but do like the Alison trans.
Sorry I disagree, long tube headers do increase performance on a stock engine. The Dynomax turbos are pretty quiet compared to what the op wants
If you're building your car one piece at a time and you know you want headers on it then have it done. Do it, do it now!
I suggest saving your money and buying good quality headers though. Buying a cheap set of Summit headers won't cost much but the paint will incinerate the moment you start the engine and you might have to use a BFH when installing them. Nobody likes the look of dented, banged up and rusted headers... well maybe some rednecks do.
The coating on plain headers is just that, it is not a hi temp paint. It needs to be stripped off and then painted or coated to keep them looking nice. Or you can buy coated headers that tend to keep their look for quite some time. I have not ever had an off the shelf header that went in without some dimpling with a BFH.
If you don't install headers now and decide to do them later it will just cost you slightly more in the long run. The exhaust shop that does the install will have to modify your pipes to mate to the collector. While this cost is probably negligible it's something to think about.
BTW, from your user name I can see you are a learned man of refinement and sensibility. We all know how much better the Powerstroke is than the Cummins or the Duramax, some of us pretend otherwise though. A 1999-2007 Powerstroke or a 1983-1993 IDI is in my future.
I suggest saving your money and buying good quality headers though. Buying a cheap set of Summit headers won't cost much but the paint will incinerate the moment you start the engine and you might have to use a BFH when installing them. Nobody likes the look of dented, banged up and rusted headers... well maybe some rednecks do.
The coating on plain headers is just that, it is not a hi temp paint. It needs to be stripped off and then painted or coated to keep them looking nice. Or you can buy coated headers that tend to keep their look for quite some time. I have not ever had an off the shelf header that went in without some dimpling with a BFH.
If you don't install headers now and decide to do them later it will just cost you slightly more in the long run. The exhaust shop that does the install will have to modify your pipes to mate to the collector. While this cost is probably negligible it's something to think about.
BTW, from your user name I can see you are a learned man of refinement and sensibility. We all know how much better the Powerstroke is than the Cummins or the Duramax, some of us pretend otherwise though. A 1999-2007 Powerstroke or a 1983-1993 IDI is in my future.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,221
From: Edmond, OK
The coating on plain headers is just that, it is not a hi temp paint. It needs to be stripped off and then painted or coated to keep them looking nice. Or you can buy coated headers that tend to keep their look for quite some time. I have not ever had an off the shelf header that went in without some dimpling with a BFH.
I beg to differ on the Cummins vs Powerstroke debate. The early 24v Cummins were awesome. On the Powerstrokes, the 7.3 was a great engine, everything that came after until recent was problematic junk. You practically can't give away a 6.0 and the 6.4 Powerstroke. The current 6.7 is ok but you have to comply with emissions (as all the manufacturers do also) and run urea fluid to keep it all clean. I've never been a fan of the Duromax but do like the Alison trans.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,606
From: Bradenton, FL
Gears first. 3.23 or 3.42 will wake it up and still be highway friendly. Don't be afraid of cylinder heads. #3 and #4 have much smaller combustion chambers than the #8 you have. Consider 1.7 pedestal mount roller rockers, too. Again, though, that Performer intake isn't much better than a factory one except that it weighs 25lbs less. Performer RPM still fits under the hood no problem.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,791
From: Northern VA
Gears first. 3.23 or 3.42 will wake it up and still be highway friendly. Don't be afraid of cylinder heads. #3 and #4 have much smaller combustion chambers than the #8 you have. Consider 1.7 pedestal mount roller rockers, too. Again, though, that Performer intake isn't much better than a factory one except that it weighs 25lbs less. Performer RPM still fits under the hood no problem.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,221
From: Edmond, OK
We might be able to get @96powerstroke back to give us an update on his Oldsmobile.
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