kevin.horton

I recently had the privilege of trying to get headers into my 1972 Cutty. They didn't fit. Passenger side header would not bolt up, was hitting the crossmember...more than likely, it is a motor mount problem, as I (stupidly) didn't replace them before dropping the motor back in. My question is, is the little bit of HP that you gain worth having to re-route a bunch of crap, including removing floor shift linkage on Driver's side, or are stock exhaust manifolds suffice? I would really appreciate some opinions on this. I will probably replace the motor mounts someday, but don't know if I will try headers again or not. Is it worth the effort?

Thanks,
-kph

Oldsmaniac

For a street car headers are more trouble than worth.....just my opinion. A good dual exhaust system works well. Trouble with headers, bolts come loose, gaskets fail, tubes tend to get dented from low clearances, fitting them and connecting is a PITA!

72 cutlass455

350 or 455 ? bone stock or modified ? Bone stock original exhaust is fine.

Bayou Olds

I have a street Olds and LOVE my headers. The difference in performance (especially with a little head work) and exhaust note are more than worth the tightening of header bolts. On my 70, I did have a clearence issue until I changed motor mounts. A little bending of tranny lines later and they were in, tight but in.

kevin.horton

Not bone stock, has a small cam in it... 270D/501L...the guys at the machine shop that rebuilt the motor from the ground up and put the cam in it said, "run headers"....but I found them to be a pretty painful prospect.

oldzy

I vote for stock.

When I get around to that particular part of my project, it will be stock exh. manifolds. I have been through all the BS that headers have to offer. ie. blown gaskets, melting the rubber end piece on my prop. valve, starter having a hard time turning sometimes when hot, bad/ripped drivers side motor mount, having to use a BFH so it would not touch the drivers side brake line near prop. valve, etc. Plus, they seem pointless unless you are going to block the exh. crossover, and weld the center bridge thing together on the heads.

The 'tinny' sound was cool though.

Bayou Olds

One other "trick". Try putting the headers on with just a turn or two on the bolts. Tighten everything else up and then tighten the headers last. Also use copper gaskets and you will not have to worry about gasket failure. A few dollars up front is worth the lack of hassle later.

kevin.horton

Thanks for the responses guys, good information. I had them on my old Chevy back in the day, but it seemed that they went on a lot easier. I just wasn't sure how much Horsepower I was actually losing by NOT running them. I am not using this car for a race application anyway, but it's like the old saying goes, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"

defiant1

Stock manifolds or shorties gets my vote. I am running Sanderson short headers and like them. No clearance issues, they look good and maybe little performance gain to boot. If budget is an issue stick with the manifolds. I was fortunate enough to pick up ceramic coated Sanderson for $280 on evilbay.
You can kind of see what they look like in the attached pics...

d1

compedgemarine

it also depends on the brand of header, some fit better than others. I had a set of hookers that would not fit with a sledge hammer. the hedmans I have now went in pretty easy.

zodiacblueS

I've heard if you have the W-Z manifolds (or the Thornton reproductions available) with true dual exhausts, for a street machine will be fine. My '73 455 has the W-Z manifolds, and I have been weighing out the header hassles with the other mods I can do with the money not spent on good headers. As a rookie I can't say for sure, but today, I'm sticking with the W-Zs. Tomorrow? t.b.d.

Allan R

Stock dual exhaust. If you do change to headers, good luck with getting all the exhaust manifold bolts out without busting one of them. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it. You can convert a 350 exhaust to duals quite easily while the manifold is still on the car. Just weld in a plug on the crossover tube.

kevin.horton

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions! I have some ceramic coated FlowTechs (now for sale)... I am not familiar with the Sanderson, or the W-Z....my manifolds look like the cross piece was cut out and capped off.

-kph

kevin.horton

Thanks Allan, your reply came in while I was typing my last one....I had just mentioned that the cross-piece looked like it had been cut and capped off.

Bayou Olds

How much??.....My Flow Techs went in fine and sound great.

Mark71

Hah... I was just going to ask the same thing. I was going to pick some up off of SummitRacing.com.

snowballs442

No headers for me. Tired of messing with them. I take my exhaust manifolds to work with me and ceramic coat it. Looks good and does the job.

dc2x4drvr

I love my ARH S/S headers, perfect fit in my car, about 25hp gain over my original WZ's. These are made so well I've never had to retighten the bolts, and the flanges are so thick, no way they could leak..

firefrost gold

Are those american racing headers and so did you get them direct or ?
Do they have a slip fit collector or three bolt style?

dc2x4drvr

Bought them from Smitty, slip fit collectors.

joe_padavano

So you have a 350? Are you sure you don't have BBO headers? Note that W/Z manifolds will not fit on a small block.

kevin.horton

Joe, yep, have a SB350....the headers would have fit, but I didn't replace the motor mounts prior to dropping the motor back in, which is probably why the passenger side wouldn't bolt up. Driver's side fit fine. I had fan shroud issues as well, so my thinking is that the motor mounts are junk. Maybe one day I will jack the motor up a little and replace them, if I ever get the energy. . But, I am not sure that I will put headers on it anyway, as I had to remove the linkage that links to a piece on the steering column, and I wasn't sure if that would affect anything either. Where is the neutral safety switch on this particular car with floor shifter? Is it in the column, or in the console? And, sorry about all of the questions, I have just never owned an Olds before, so don't know too much about them, but I'm learning as I go.

71 Cutlass

I also use the Sanderson shorty headers and they have been great. The Thornton piece isn't a "True" exhaust piece, as Joe P. and others have posted many times before.

Cr099

"Where is the neutral safety switch on this particular car with floor shifter?"
I have a '69 auto, and mine is in the console.
I also have a shop service manual that is very handy. You can get em at Fusicks for $70.

joe_padavano

All 1971-up Cutlii have the neutral safety switch at the base of the steering column, even the floor shift cars. The backdrive linkage from the trans must be installed for it to work.

kevin.horton

Thanks Joe, that just validated that long headers will not work on my car. I am not sure why they don't tell you this when you buy these friggin' headers on the website, you have to find out AFTER you buy them that they "won't work with floor shifter models". I may have to go with the Sanderson's if I want to pursue it any further, we'll see.

Like I said, I have these that I am stuck with, would probably let them go for a reasonable price, they are kind of scuffed up from getting in and out of the car. Shipping would probably be monsterous on these things.

I may take a few snaps of 'em so that you guys can see 'em if you are interested.

Mark71

If you remove that linkage and lock it into "park" or whatever so that you can always use the key...

Would the headers fit then on the driver's side or would it still be a problem?

kevin.horton

The header on the driver's side fit, it was the pass side that was the problem, and I think it was due to bad motor mounts...I wasn't really fond of the idea of removing that linkage though, because I thought that it would probably affect my back-up lights not working either. Those Sanderson's look pretty cool, and you can have the best of both worlds.

joe_padavano

Most header manufacturers will tell you to bend the backdrive rod to clear the headers. There's nothing magic about that rod, it's just mild steel. Bend it to clear and so long as the length is correct, it works fine. Length is adjustable anyway.

Mark71

I am going to look into those Sandersons... I agree, it sounds like the best of both worlds.

Still, I just want to be sure I understand because I've been looking at Flowtechs and Heddmans. Some folks on here really stand by the Heddmans, so I don't want to give up on them just yet...

Do you have to remove that linkage in order to get the driver's side to fit...? Or did it fit with the linkage in place?

Mark71

Strange, but according the the instructions I saw, they talk about bending the clutch linkage (which I don't have ) and resetting it to the opposite side of some other part of the linkage. Didn't realize that applied to my neutral lock-out linkage as well.

D Appeldorn

a pitty headers wil not bolt up a 69' 88.
without mounting a new steering setup.

i like headers more, and the hassel it gives to mount them i take for granted.
most headers or aftermarked stuff need to be adjusted ( like bending or making a dent in it.)
but not all of them.

i like to go stainless, re mounting the original bolt secure plate so they don't come loose.

kevin.horton

"Do you have to remove that linkage in order to get the driver's side to fit...? Or did it fit with the linkage in place?"

No, you have to remove the linkage. The back part of the header will run right into it. As Joe said, you can bend the linkage over the header, but to me, I just don't want to do that. I think I would rather have the Sanderson shorty's and then have the muffler shop bend the actual tubing either above or below the linkage. I am going to snap some pics of the FlowTechs that I have, and if someone wants them, let me know.

-kph

joe_padavano

Personally, if I'm going through the trouble of installing headers, I'm using full length headers. Shorty "headers" are simply manifolds with round tubes. Full length headers should provide some scavenging through proper selection of tube diameter and length. Of course, I doubt most cheap headers are actually tuned...

Bayou Olds

Take a look at the pic I posted above and on this reply. That is my passenger side header prior to replacing my motor mounts. Yes they would not tighten. A set of NAPA mounts later and tightening was easy. Change your mounts and go with the headers. You have a good set of full length pipes . so why not get a few HP and greatly improve the sound of your ride.

kevin.horton

At least you could get the bolts in (or it looks a lot closer) before you replaced yours. . Hell, when I went to bolt mine up, (passenger side) it wouldn't even come forward enough for the bolt holes to line up. That tells me that it is sagging pretty bad.

OldsManNJ

I too prefer headers for the performance and sound. With some mild work done to my engine I think they make it run and sound much better than manifolds. No fitting issues here though - they dropped right in - as for blowing gaskets - I use these extra thick crushable gaskets - they work amazingly well - even when your flanges are not perfect these seal. They are from a company called Remflex and are awesome.

jag1886

I would vote for the stock type manifolds they are full proof and work well, after all you said you aren't racing it. I did use a set of Thorntons on my car and they worked well they fit perfect and you can get the next size larger pipes on them. Everyone here poo-poo's them but they are great in my book.

firefrost gold

Ok im getting old can't make out the head letter or number on your engine so is it a bb or small block I only ask as i was on sanderson site and they only make one header for the 455 and it is a center dump for a street rod or drag frame with no center cross member under the engine.

defiant1

Here is the link to the SBO 350 headers that I have. That's is odd they don't offer more than one style for the 455.

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sand...n-Cutlass.html

d1