Tucsonbob

I have a numbers matching OW transmission but no tag. Is there anyone with the correct punches and tag that will make one for me?

jaunty75

Generally, when a question like this is asked, the answer is usually yes.

In this case, I would think so.


I can see the conversation now when you go to sell the car:

Interested buyer: "Is this a numbers-matching car?"

You: "It sure is! Want to see the tag on transmission? I made it myself!"

MDchanic

I'm sure you can buy anything of that sort somewhere (the Chebby guys are all over it, since the "right" numbers can triple the value of their cars), but, as Jaunty implies, you might create more trouble for yourself down the line with one.

These services, which create ID tags and skillfully aged paperwork, are used by people who want to fraudulently create cars that never existed, so that they can make a lot of money.
If you use one, it may be hard to convince a future buyer that you are the only person in history ever to use them for innocent purposes.

- Eric

Olds64

I wouldn't buy a reproduced transmission tag. That would be sort of scandalous.

hurst68olds

It would depend on ..... What other evidence do you have that the car is indeed a W-30?

wmachine

More than frowned on by me. When you boil any of the arguments down, there is one and only one reason to alter numbers and that is FRAUD. Adding or subtracting numbers is the same.
Believe me, I've heard them all, and as far as I'm concerned, none hold any water and do nothing but contribute to the pollution of the automotive gene pool with the sole purpose of financial gain by profiteers. Messing with numbers on a car do absolutely nothing to preserve the true heritage of the car. In fact, quite the opposite.

ent72olds

If I read the OP right, the tranny is a match to his car, making me believe that sometime in the past, the tag disappeared. Is this correct Tuscon?

Tucsonbob

I have the broadcast card that I found in the seat back of the driver seat indicating that it was born a W30. The tag was on the tranny when it went into the shop and didn't come back and the shop can't find it. I appreciate all the feedback and you have answered my question.

MDchanic

Since the presence of that tag can be proven to increase the value of your car by a definable amount, I would say you have cause for a lawsuit.

Also, that tag did not just fall off - someone removed it, and is either planning to use it to create a fraudulently represented transmission, or to sell it.
Watch eBay.

- Eric

edit: This is why I would never give a part of my car to some shop to "fix." They're all a bunch of criminals (a few folks on this board excepted, of course ).

GAOldsman

If the VIN derivative code matches the actual VIN, I see no harm in buying the repop OD tag as long as it is disclosed the potential buyer if you ever decide to sell that the #'s match but it is a repop tag on trans. Minute details that try to show the correctness and not used to defraud will only help the sale IMO.

pogo69

I totally agree with this comment

droptopron

I think you are giving these guys too much credit. The immigrant that prob worked on the car prob had no idea what he was looking at.
The car is devalued somewhat by it going missing but it would be really hard to pull off a lawsuit unless you had proof it was there to begin with.

MDchanic

Well, he DID photograph the transmission from all angles, including numbers, before he gave it to them, right?

I mean, what would keep them from pulling the tag off of a BA or PB tranny, giving that back, and keeping the OW?

- Eric

GAOldsman

I don't see any loss of value if all numbers match the VIN with or with the tag. Sure it's harder to see the VIN derivative code on the transmission than it is to peek under the passenger side and read the tag with a flashlight, but the fact that it is the right transmission is all that really matters. Anyone who would restore the car to the tee would spring for the repop tag and in this case it wouldn't be fraud by no means. Again my $0.02

dc2x4drvr

The tags come up on ebay occasionally, and look like OEM.

lemoldsnut

This brings up another issue that just happened to me. I sell Olds parts everyday. Yes I do this to add to my disability pay. Plus I just love these cars. I had a guy offer to buy just the vin tags and cowl tags off one of my cars with a title.
I told him no. I offered to sell him a car not the tags. If I was to sell him the tags and a title he could just steal a car and retag it and have a car that appears legal.

By the way he came to me threw this forum.

Beware of those out there who offer tags and those who offer to buy tags. There are people who are just out to screw others.

Larry

stevengerard

You have a documented W30! period!! So the tag is really meaningless in its value since you have other documentation saying the car is a W30. Many trans were swapped out. Guys, these cars are over 40 years old!!!! If I found a documented W30 without the OW trans but a matching engine I'd be bummed but less so than missing the engine, intake or heads.

Tusconbob also states the trans is matching numbers - so we know it belongs to the car. Most of us know that the tag has no numbers on it that match the VIN, engine or anything else. Yes, the tags do have a sequence number on it but all transmissions have that.

One of my W30s OW tag was hanging by a thread, I too took it off, as I did not want to lose it - I drive my car - and at that time I had no idea what fastener to use or if they were even available. You can barely see the stampings on mine, I'm sure my trans was rebuilt numerous times over its lifetime (I had it done once myself) and got wire-brushed to death!!! One day I will put it back on but the paperwork speaks for itself.

To me putting an OW tag on a documented car is no different than buying new red inner fenderwells. Now putting an OW tag on a non documented car without any history of it being a W30 would be wrong.

pogo69

I agree here also... pretty soon there are going to be more ''authentic'' cars on the road today then were actually produced

GAOldsman

I think that is the main consensus that there are in fact more now than produced None the less this one in particular is documented and could be proven by glancing at all of the #'s, which tower's over most pre 1972 W30's that are not documented nor matching #'s.

MDchanic

I knew someone who had a similar experience, Larry.

He had restored a 1940s convertible, but still had the frame from a parts car lying around.
A neighbor came by and said he had a buddy who was restoring one of those, and needed a frame, and could he buy it.
The guy stopped by, paid a reasonable price for an old rusty frame in cash, and my friend handed him the registration (no titles for those years), which had the previous owner's information (it was a parts car, so he had never registered it). The guy said he'd be by next week to pick it up.
Next week came and went.
Then the next week.
He contacted the neighbor, who said He's busy, but he'll be by soon.
It seemed weird - I mean, the guy had already paid for it, why would he leave it. It wasn't like the seller was getting screwed - he had both the cash and the frame.
He asked the neighbor a few more times, then he stopped asking.
That frame sat in his yard for ten years, until he ran into a guy who was willing to take it as scrap with no paper.

He figured it out after the first month or so:
The buyer had used the registration to register the frame as a car, then presented pictures of a different car to buy insurance, then reported the car stolen.
For fifty bucks and a few pictures, he probably made 20 grand.
And my friend was stuck with a piece of iron that might have got him locked up for running a chop shop if he'd brought it to a junk yard to be scrapped.

Some of these crooks are ingenious, which is why I advise caution.

- Eric

copper128

Smart on your part.
Selling, removing or altering a VIN is a felony-level crime. If the buyer did something stupid (like swapping tags on a stolen or fraudulent car) and got caught, it could - and very likely would - come back on you. Loks of expense and hassle defending yourself from a criminal charge and/or civil suit.

sammy

I seem to be hearing a lot about stuff" not coming back from the shop".....

Larry, someone was in my shop yesterday and wanted to buy the tags off my 68 442.....needless to say, he did not stay very long.....I think it is a side of this hobby I would rather not be around....
The tranny tag....I would not bother...my 2c's

Ted

pogo69

when people see 1 2 and 300,000 dollar cars, some with scant history etc.. the thought of fraud and jail is hardly considered.

stevengerard

You wouldn't believe what the shop that worked on my car misplaced or lost. I also am willing to bet every guy that worked on my car was probably clueless about what made a W30 a W30. I firmly believe it was negligence, laziness, stupidity and that the owner was a jerk to the workers, no pride in what they did as no matter what they did they got yelled at.

I'll never bring another car there again.

ent72olds

You must have gotten into my head Eric, on the lawsuit point.....also, what you said about the shop and the missing tag, so true!

Now, if indeed he has paper, and the trans is original to the car with "matching numbers"' then I don't see the harm here.....wouldn't it be like buying a w-30 with missing emblems on the fenders, then buying a repro set to fill in the holes? Same difference to me....

2blu442

I agree with Eric and Steven. Since the vin number is stamped in the transmission and he has the paperwork to show that its real and the transmission is correct the tag is window dressing. If it was missing an emblem or even the OAI air cleaner, installing another one would be fine with me. In this situation I see no problem installing a reproduction tag.

John