rocketraider

What is up with all these newbies coming on here and the first thing they ask about is putting a Chevrolet engine in their Oldsmobile? There have been three in the last couple of weeks.

I don't care how many times you try to tell me "it's all GM", it is NOT. Don't care how many times you try to tell me "it's cheaper", by the time you've changed/butchered everything to make it work, it is NOT.

Would you put a Ford or Mopar engine in your Oldsmobile? Putting a Chevrolet engine in it is no different. If you wanted a Chevelle, why didn't you buy one? There goes that "it's cheaper!" argument again...

Leave the Chevrolet engines where they belong- in Chevrolets. Grow a set and build an Oldsmobile engine for your Oldsmobile.

Otherwise I will no longer waste my time trying to answer your questions.

Oldsmaniac

One reason may be money. Oldsmobile restoration is not cheap compared to Chev, Ford. Let em go to a Chevy site for help.

Olds64

You have a point. I bought my Hedman Hedders for over $400 (with the ceramic heat coating). A similar set of headers for a Chevy BB is much cheaper.

We just need to remain civil and tell folks that we don't know much about that swap because we prefer to keep our Olds "all Olds." Of course, we shouldn't mind helping them out with other Olds stuff like wiper motors, electrical, interior, body, etc.

gearheads78

I think you guys with the extreem negative reaction just adds to the fire. If you don't like what someone is doing just ignoir the post.

sx455raidercelticfan

i love my hemi mustang!! LOL

scr8p

if i get an olds without an engine and have a sbc sitting in the corner of my garage ready to go, guess what's going in it.

chevy's are cheaper, and not everyone has oldsmobile money.

lshlsh2

I think you are missing the point. I remenber when I got my 68. I didn't know a 350 olds was different than a 350 chevy, buick or ponitac. Now I know better and would't drop a chevy in my 71. I think some of the new people are getting into the hobby and just don't know. I think the object of this site should always be education. We need to let them know civially the problems involved but ultimatly it's their car.
I also realize that there are always 1 or 2 that want to stir up stuff. I think we can realize that pretty quick and ignore them.
my .02
Larry

Lady72nRob71

There are several good, lengthy posts around here that detail all the extra work, mods, and $$ needed to adapt a Chevy motor into an Olds. Any idea where they are? If so, let's link them here.
Maybe we should make a few of them sticky and refer those inquiring to them.

Many who are new to Olds, do NOT know that not all GM motors just drop into any similar car. Sounds simple, BUTTTTTT..............

geckonz08

not a bad idea
mike

nonhog

It is disturbing,
probably not as disturbing as asking someone to leave the site
(which they did) as in a previous thread when they asked about it.
FWIW.

D Appeldorn

i think it all depends on what you want and what your going to build.

I personly don't want a chevy engine in my olds, But i'm going for a ballance in stock and musclecar look.

But my little brother bought himselve a 40ies buick special 4door.
We first talked about to rebuild the streight 8.
But he want's a hotrod with outside retro stock look.
So there you go, a smallblock buick or chevy. shifter also.

We dicided that in my country chevy parts are easy to get and cheaper.

And we keep all the original engine's in do not cut thinks we can't build back.

And howfar would you go, for exampel i build a olds 455 in my original 350 powered 69' 88delta

marcar1993

My big gripe is that Olds motors aren't expensive to build if you know what you are doing.
Everyone thinks that chevy's are cheap? I built a budget 403 to walk all over just about anything out there for the same budget with the same starting point.
I layed out a little over $800 for a 403/th350 build I copied from a trusted source that should get me into the 13's in a g-body with nothing else but a set of gears. (Couldn't cost more than another few hundred.)

How much to build your chevy 350 again? PLUS the cost of conversion parts!
My point is proven and I rest my case.

geckonz08

Down under ,(and probably as in D appledorn`s Netherlands, all we see are Chebys n Fo%ds.) sprinkled amonget the sprinkling of this is a very small no. of others -mopars usually.
I like to be a bit different (don`t we all ?) and for that difference I am prepared to spend a bit ,even if it takes a little longer ..That is my take on it and for to my mind I have yet to find any cheap car resto .It is , like many hobbies , a matter of how expensive . I don`t think it`s the make much more than what your intended build may be

88 coupe

Because the cars are Olds, it did not occur to them that a Chev site would be a better source for Chev parts/advice.

Norm

Coltonis

I think Oldsmobile guys are just elitists... ::dives out the window::

D Appeldorn

That what i meant,

It is hard to get olds parts in the Netherlands.
And i want my Olds to be an olds an spent more money and time to it.

But if i build me a hotrod or custom car, i'l gona use the parts that are easy to get over here.
fore example i pay'd 3800 euro's for a rebuild Oldsblock without the oilpan, intakemanifold, exhaustmanifolds and other parts (longblock)

A brandnew and complete chevy engine is a bit cheaper than what i pay'd

That's the reasen i buying me poor, to get oldsparts i'l need in the states

agtw31

i think it's a combination of a couple reasons:

1.Oldsmobile engine builders out there acting like it's rocket science to build an Olds motor,wanting 5-10K to build a motor that gets your car in the high 12's,when you can go buy a $4000 crate 383 and spray it all day long

2. people don't give a crap about brand loyalty,they just want a hot rod.

Oldsguy

They won't stop inquiring. They like their Oldsmobile car and they don't know any better, it is our purpose to help them as best we can regardless if they decide to keep a non-Olds engine or not. As was suggested, let's keep friendly and optimistic. I think people expect there will be a little bit of a purist attitude on ANY forum with a brand name in it's title but let's be nice about it.

Blk71SX

just think of all the poor Furd people when it comes to Chevy motors transplanted into their cars.

in the late 70s some Oldsmobiles were rolling off the assembly line with Chevrolet power plants.

Let's not get our knickers in a twist over this subject. If a member wants a 100 point car that's great but if an other memeber want to install a flux capacitor in his 442 I say go for it!!

firefrost gold

i would rather see a sbc than 22'" on them .

bammax

I'm one of them noobs who's trying to yank out the stock Olds powerplant and swap to another GM engine. The thing is though that's because my car is a Buick with an Olds 307 in it and I want an all Buick build. Guess how many people on Olds sites say that I should get over it and just swap in an Olds 455 instead of a Buick motor.

If your loyal to the brand then great but remember that after 1990 there was no such thing as an Oldsmobile powered car coming out of GM. That means for 20 years now any GM car you bought was powered by a Chevy or a Buick v6. So all the noobs who are under the age of 30 have probably never seen an Olds engine until they ended up with one that was in need of repair. I can't even find a mechanic that can tune a carb let alone one who can fix an Olds. So for simplicity sake the Chevy or Buick 6 is the way to go. Any greese monkey can fix it and any autozone or advance has the parts to build one from scratch sitting on the shelf. Not to mention you can snag a running engine from the junkyard any day of the week for under $300 bucks. Try to grab a running Olds engine from a junkyard and then clean it up with parts from autozone. It aint going to happen unless you live in Texas or Tennessee since that's appearently where all these olds cars seem to be.

Anytime people whine about staying loyal to parts that haven't been produced in over 20 years I tell them to move to New England. The average car around here rots into nothing in 12 years and is scrapped by 15. Once the junkyards get them they hold onto them for between 1 month and 1 year. By my math there are very few 20 year old cars to pick from. The yards that keep old cars charge an arm and a leg just to go look at them. Not very practical or cheap in the long run. I've seen 1 Olds engine in a regular junkyard in the past 5 years and it was a 260 from a 1980 Cutlass. The car was crushed within 2 months of them getting it.

76_cutty

could i get a part # for that flux capacitor??

Aceshigh

Personally I have no idea why so many PURISTS get bent out of shape for people liking the Oldsmobile DESIGN
and upgrading it with modern GM technology, combining the best of the old with the best of the new.

It's not YOUR car, why do you care so much ??? You may like something because it's RARE.
Others may like something because it has MORE POWER with LESS INVESTED. To each their own.
One man might like his original 250 hp Olds motor. I might prefer to race my 400hp G-machine that gets 15 / 30mpg.

Those are the types that annoy people at car shows.
"Oh that's not original......that don't belong there.....oh that's absolutely wrong".

There's SEVERAL reasons. That's definitely #1 though.

#1. Cheaper. Old or New.
#2. More HP for your money
#3. Chevrolet lasted the test of time, Oldsmobile did not. (closed down) = Modern Olds options are limited.
#4. Modern Muscle Car era is reborn. Oldsmobile is not in it.

Oldsmobile engines were great in their hey day, but today's offerings are much better designed and waaaaay more efficient.
Compare a Supercharged LS9 to anything Oldsmobile ever put out. GOOD LUCK!!!!

I am not a purist, I'm a pro-touring , Autocross, mod junky.
You build YOUR car how YOU want, and I will build MY CARS how I want.
Exactly. If you don't like what someone is doing, you don't have to help.
I get 20 answers to a problem I post in a matter of 1 hour on Nastyz28. (2nd gen Camaro site)
I get 1 to 3 answers PER DAY on ClassicOldsmobile which is the most active Olds site.
There's PLENTY of Chevy and Olds owners on that site that help each other too because they enjoy both.

THe point is, there's 20 Chevy sites that get alot more traffic and people use them.
Why ??? Because Chevrolet has been GM's flagship brand for decades now.
Oldsmobile purists are somewhat bitter about it, I'm not a purist and to me it's a car that I enjoy.

Don't take things so seriously , don't be a hater, and enjoy what you have I say.

Aceshigh

EXACTLY!!!!!

How many of you have noticed the "disturbing trend" that 80's and 70's
Oldsmobiles have been the vehicle of choice for DONK's and Ghetto rides ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yfArN-e2OU

Aceshigh

I'll take that bet.

Post up cost from starting with nothing to end result and HP figures.

aliensatemybuick

Fine advice, that some of us (including me, God knows) could stand to follow more often.

rocketraider

You need to learn a little about GM internal politics from the late-70s onward. Oldsmobile was pretty much sacrificed to keep Cadillac afloat after GM screwed it up to the point of implosion. Olds made the General plenty of money that they did not get any R&D benefit from. Chevrolet and Cadillac got the benefit from it. Two sacred cows within General Motors are Corvette and Cadillac, and they will get R&D money when no one else does.

DILLIGAF? If I wanted efficiency I'd have a smart car or some such nonsense.


You might want to ask Cadillac Motor Division what they think about that comment. Chevrolet excepting Corvette has always been GM's bread and butter/ entry-level brand. There's a lot of difference in that and being the flagship.


I still say if you wanted a Chevrolet, you should have bought one in the first place. I don't mind suspension/chassis upgrades on any car, I've done them myself, but I do not buy into that Chevrolet engine is the only way to get any power or efficiency BS.

Aces, you and I have discussed this plenty of times. You won't change my mind, I won't change yours. Just don't try to convince me I have to have modern GM/Chevrolet power in my Oldsmobiles. I'd crush them all before I'd even consider it, should let you know how strongly I feel about it. If they have to have a Chevrolet powerplant to stay on the road, they don't need to be on the road. They need to be in the junkyard or recycled into Kias.




To the guy who wants to change his Buick to Buick power, I salute you. The Olds 455 would be the simplest transplant, but a Buick 455 is a formidable engine in its own right. At least you're not bastardizing it with a Chevrolet engine, modern or otherwise.




To those who argue that GM itself put Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles starting in the 70s: Oldsmobile engines were in high demand by Buick, Pontiac and marine/irrigation engine customers. Olds blundered by overcommitting themselves to these folks and found itself in the position of not having enough engine-building capacity to supply their own production plus the other commitments.

What did Olds do? they honored their business deals and worked a deal with Chevrolet to supply engines to make up their own production. Not because the Chevy engine was better, it was because Chevy had more engine-building capacity than they had cars to put them in and they gave Olds a good deal to keep their engine plants running. Plus the Chevy 350 engines were already emissions-certified for the B platform. Buick did not produce its own V8 at all after 1976, and the 301 was all Pontiac had to offer that was already EPA-certified for the B car. It was deemed too small for a full-size Oldsmobile. It's kinda telling that Buick/Pontiac went to Oldsmobile for 350 (and 403) engines instead of Chevrolet, especially considering the big/little brother relationship Buick and Chevy have always had.

I still think that corporate engine mess was the beginning of GM's downfall. 20 years down the road people have forgotten that each GM Division was once its own entity and accepted that "it's all GM". Never in my lifetime will I accept that idea. If that's being a hater, well, I've been called worse.

greenslade

does anyone know if a 7.3 ford diesel will ft in a 73 ninty eight lol.

Aceshigh

Okay, I understand......that's the historical aspect of it.
It doesn't change the fact of what prices and performance options there are today.

LMAO......classic. The old grumpy purist response

Cool. I have no problem with you driving your classic olds powered Oldsmobile.
Apparently the feeling isn't mutual though for those that decide to step outside of the box.

That's the point we're discussing.

Got one. Love it. Way faster then my Olds is.

Some of us weren't around to harbor that much animosity for 30+ years now.
A car is a car to me. To you, it's Olds Loyalty to the day you die. To each their own I say.

I could sit and mock guys who drive 40+ year old technology when my G-machine will be faster,
more nimble, and easier to troubleshoot.......and parts will cost less. But I don't......

90% of the population today wouldn't care if Olds had Chevy engines in them or not. I'll let you in on ANOTHER secret.....
Most "Oooooh ahhhhh" when they see modern drivetrains in classic vehicles.
When it comes to racing.....100% of the aftermarket products out there are NOT Oldsmobile manufactured either
......even if they are MADE FOR Oldsmobiles. So I see no difference.

gearheads78

This thread is not going anywhere. Everyone on oppisite sides of this need to agree to disagree and be done with it.

Aceshigh

Discussion's on opinions are subjective.

No one is wrong. To each their own is the end result at the end of the day.

greenslade

keeping your oldmobile,OLDSMOBILE impossible for most of us,if we removed all the non olds parts from our cars, we may as well park them on the front lawn and use them for flower pots or take them to the scrap yard.Most car have after market parts on them, be it engines ,rear ends,bumpers, body panels or what have you.Do what ever you want with your car and enjoy it,even if it a flower pot!

Aceshigh

Check out this bad boy. LS1 powered Olds. GUARANTEED to put a smile on your face.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=4070

Here's the pics
http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Ro.../photos/147164



Here's some fun reading.
I'll have one of the first 68-72 Olds with an LS Gen IV L92 powered drivetrain in it. My 6 speed has been here waiting since February.
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...c7924e3832b0b5

agtw31

they had a bunch of LS-1 converted cars at Goodguys

they sound like a BMW.

Ddbord

In 1977 our kids were off to the racetrack to make themselves a name (and all three did) in Thoroughbred horse racing. I was driving my Olds 98 LS replete with the all powerful, red, 455 engine.

My wife had been driving an older, used, Olds 98 wagon and as it was getting long in the tooth and with the kids gone we just didn't need the big wagon any longer.

We traded it in for a really beautiful dark green 1977 Delta 88. When the stories of Olds putting Chebby motors into Oldsmobile's, I looked at the engine and something didn't look right! I drove the car over to the dealer who was a family friend, and they checked it out.

The result was that my wife's car had a Chevy engine in it. I told the owner of the dealership, "Al, this car cost a lot more than a Chevy. If I wanted a Chevy I would have gone across the street to the Chevy dealer."

He got me the same green Delta 88 with an Olds engine at no cost!

That was the LAST Olds I bought until 1983 when I bought a Cutlass Supreme 4-door.

The moral of this story is that even if the Chevrolet engine was as good as an Oldsmobile engine, I DIDN'T buy a Chevy!

End of story.....

Now in 2010, who cares what you do to your ride!

I actually just ordered rear seat-belts for Blue Belle.

....and they're not Oldsmobile!

--Don

geckonz08

You have had an education .I can tell .Argument is cogent and well thought .However, it is to some a little "subcutaneous" .If that is your rationale perhaps you desist somewhat .
Just think we will go in circles with the occasional orbital interface
mike

vmathy

This is a great discussion! I have 4 sons that have grown up going to shows, looking at muscle cars, reading hot rod, carcraft etc. as they started driving and messing with beaters telling thier friends they woulnt drive Jap crap I was pretty proud. When my oldest was 17 he bought a camaro z28 fuel injected w/6 speed I said nice car but its nothing compared to the 60's cars, then I drove it "wow". My next Son came home with some Acrua w/turbo I took off in this thing wow a rocket! Now He's driving an 87 Camaro w/ 70 Vette motor "cool". The older guy has a 78 Cutlass that he plans on putting an LS1 in, I'd rather see a 455 in it. For me my 71 convertible Cutlass w/455 is the cats *** but I came up hot rodding whatever I could afford and We need to let the kids do the same! My sons 78 Cutlass will blow my doors off with that LS1 when its done but if he wants to put a 71 Chevelle up against me he will remeber who changed his diaper!!
I am now an OLDS guy but when I was a kid driving a GTO Pontiac ruled, even though my buddy in a 74 Cutlass 455 blew my doors off? I have an Idea for a project; Take a 67 Lemans find an 07 GTO in a bone yard and put that new motor along w/the interior into the 67.

BOTTOM LINE THERES A DIFFERANCE BETWEEN HOT RODDING AND RESTORING WE NEED TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE

stlbluesbrother

I believe the intent of this thread is to vent fustration to certain types of questions being posted on a forum orginally setup for Oldsmobile enthusiasts. I'm pretty sure there are other on-line sites/forums designed for non "Classic Oldsmobiles".

rocketraider

Finally, someone who gets it.


I don't mind hot rodding. I like a modified car as much as anyone and I appreciate the work, thought and craftsmanship that goes into a well-executed one.

I also appreciate a correctly restored car for the same reasons.


What I do NOT appreciate is a mindset that AUTOMATICALLY discounts a car's original equipment and says it has to have a different brand of engine to be a viable car.

Whether through ignorance or spite makes no difference. The fact remains that someone believes (or somehow has been convinced) the manufacturer's engine is no good and they have to put a different brand engine in the car to be reliable/efficient/powerful/whatever.

That's what I see too much of, and that's what pisses me off.

TK-65

I find it kind of disturbing that some have the attitude that its "olds powered or nothing". If we run out of Olds power plants that the cars should be crushed and never driven again. Thats like losing your leg and not wanting a prosthetic. Since its not the original leg you aint walking no more.

I dont see the engine as the whole. Some may love the style of an Olds but want a modern engine that gets great gas mileage, makes awesome power, and does it on the cheap. Many people panned Lenos Toronado because it has a LSX under the hood. I applauded it because it brought attention to a stagnant car that no one under the age of 70 is building.