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I saw this posted on FB just now, and the seller classifies it as a "survivor". I read the comment posted, and thought I would get the opinion from the group. What do you think?
I saw that too.
First off, there’s really nothing “Survivor” about that car.
You don’t spend $25,000 on a survivor. You carefully rub and “lightly” bring-back what you have- to keep it as original as possible.
I’d say a “survivor” is:
#1 original paint
#2 original drivetrain
#3 original interior
#4 original bright work
#5 original expendable parts like mufflers, belts, shocks etc. (The stuff you SHOULD change every few years)
This car is a restoration that he skimped on a lot.
I believe they have no idea what "survivor" means in car terms.
First it has to have at least survived one car lifetime (10 years and 100,000 miles) of real driver use. Or the equivalent of it without being altered outside of general maintenance and reasonable upkeep. Then it has to mostly have its original paint, so on and so forth.
A 1987 GNX that has 50 miles on it and is buried in someones garage is not a survivor.
A 250 thousand mile 1970 442 that's been restored is not a survivor.
However they can be in great shape with natural patina, or on permanent last legs...
Ok, so what about the "in betweens"? Case in point, my '72 Supreme U code. It's had some body work done with one repaint, clocked 118,000+ miles, vinyl top has been replaced twice, and mostly original interior with the exception of the driver's seat bottom being recovered, and a new rear package tray. It still has the original drivetrain with minor modifications.
Ok, so what about the "in betweens"? Case in point, my '72 Supreme U code. It's had some body work done with one repaint, clocked 118,000+ miles, vinyl top has been replaced twice, and mostly original interior with the exception of the driver's seat bottom being recovered, and a new rear package tray. It still has the original drivetrain with minor modifications.
Driver or survivor?
Well, it “survived” a potential trip to the crusher, so it’s got that going for it.
Nearly 100% original other than some consumable maintenance parts, low miles, original paint,THIS is truly a survivor. This was its surprise debut to our little band of gear heads.
It's a sales tactic. Keywords like "survivor, barn find, numbers matching" etc show up in algorithms for fools looking to part with their money. False advertising? Show me truthful advertising.
I saw that too.
First off, there’s really nothing “Survivor” about that car.
You don’t spend $25,000 on a survivor. You carefully rub and “lightly” bring-back what you have- to keep it as original as possible.
I’d say a “survivor” is:
#1 original paint
#2 original drivetrain
#3 original interior
#4 original bright work
#5 original expendable parts like mufflers, belts, shocks etc. (The stuff you SHOULD change every few years)
This car is a restoration that he skimped on a lot.
I'd concur with everything except #5. How does replacing plugs, wires, points, cap, rotor, shocks, tires, wheel bearings, U-joints, mufflers, belts, etc. as part of regular maintenance disqualify a car as a "survivor"? If most of those items are NOT replaced as required, would it not prevent a vehicle from "surviving"?
Last edited by JohnnyBs68S; Jul 8, 2025 at 04:49 AM.
"Survivor" means nothing more than that the car still exists in one piece 50 years or whatever later. It doesn't imply anything about the car's condition, degree of restoration, or anything else. Each of us with an old Oldsmobile possesses a survivor.
Everyone has their point of view on a “survivor” if someone was selling a car listed as a survivor, I would expect to go see a car with original paint, original interior, original drive train etc. I would expect maintenance replacement parts like spark plugs, wires, possible water pump , tires etc. In my opinion repaints, new interior, non original drive train disqualifies it being advertised as a survivor car.
Everyone has their point of view on a “survivor” if someone was selling a car listed as a survivor, I would expect to go see a car with original paint, original interior, original drive train etc. I would expect maintenance replacement parts like spark plugs, wires, possible water pump , tires etc. In my opinion repaints, new interior, non original drive train disqualifies it being advertised as a survivor car.
I agree with this man. A presentable, operable, original car. A repaint is not a survivor. The Chicago cutlass is not a survivor as it is a zombie.
I stopped reading after I saw that he stripped the car to bare metal. How can a car be a survivor if it doesn't have the OE paint?
^^^
My interpretation of a survivor is all original hard parts. A well maintained driver that is otherwise all original with flaws suitable to the years and mileage.
Pretty sure Bloomington Gold coined the term 35 years ago, from their website:
Back in 1990 Bloomington Gold introduced their SURVIVOR award for original, unrestored Corvettes. Award winners would need to be 20 years old, complete a short road test, and be at least 50% unrestored in 3 of 4 categories. Now, as we count down to the 2014 show, they’ve announced
some sweeping changes to their SURVIVOR judging program.
SURVIVOR Corvettes are those that have remained largely original since new. They can be used as a guide by others restoring similar cars. As the SURVIVOR mantra goes, they’re “Worn in, but not worn out.” They are historically significant and shouldn’t be restored.
The new SURVIVOR award measures a car’s originality in Gold, Silver, and Bronze levels similar to Certification judging.
SURVIVOR GOLD award winners are 80% or more unrestored in all four sections (interior, exterior, engine, and chassis).
SURVIVOR SILVER Corvettes are 66% or more unrestored in all four sections. Finally,
SURVIVOR BRONZE winners are more than 50% unrestored in any three sections.
Furthermore, all SURVIVOR Corvettes will have OEM Engine stamps and VIN Tags. Like before, eligible cars need to be more than 20 years old and successfully complete the 10 mile road test. The new SURVIVOR judging standards will be used for the first time on Sunday, June 28th at the
2014 Bloomington Gold show
Pretty sure Bloomington Gold coined the term 35 years ago, from their website:
Back in 1990 Bloomington Gold introduced their SURVIVOR award for original, unrestored Corvettes. Award winners would need to be 20 years old, complete a short road test, and be at least 50% unrestored in 3 of 4 categories. Now, as we count down to the 2014 show, they’ve announced
some sweeping changes to their SURVIVOR judging program.
SURVIVOR Corvettes are those that have remained largely original since new. They can be used as a guide by others restoring similar cars. As the SURVIVOR mantra goes, they’re “Worn in, but not worn out.” They are historically significant and shouldn’t be restored.
The new SURVIVOR award measures a car’s originality in Gold, Silver, and Bronze levels similar to Certification judging.
SURVIVOR GOLD award winners are 80% or more unrestored in all four sections (interior, exterior, engine, and chassis).
SURVIVOR SILVER Corvettes are 66% or more unrestored in all four sections. Finally,
SURVIVOR BRONZE winners are more than 50% unrestored in any three sections.
Furthermore, all SURVIVOR Corvettes will have OEM Engine stamps and VIN Tags. Like before, eligible cars need to be more than 20 years old and successfully complete the 10 mile road test. The new SURVIVOR judging standards will be used for the first time on Sunday, June 28th at the
2014 Bloomington Gold show
^^^THIS! Of course, sellers want to use anything they can to justify an inflated asking price. Also, most are clueless. Just look at all the sellers who claim that their pre-1968 Olds is "numbers matching". And yeah, I'm fully aware of the unit numbers on the P-O-P on those cars. These sellers don't even know what P-O-P is.
Original paint gone over with TLC. Born with drive train, leaks fixed, gently cleaned, wear items replaced. Original interior clean and untouched. Wheels and tires, Progression Ignition, Cold Case cooling, because she's old, NOT DEAD and still likes to run.
I'd say survivor.
Pretty sure Bloomington Gold coined the term 35 years ago, from their website:
Back in 1990 Bloomington Gold introduced their SURVIVOR award for original, unrestored Corvettes. Award winners would need to be 20 years old, complete a short road test, and be at least 50% unrestored in 3 of 4 categories. Now, as we count down to the 2014 show, they’ve announced
some sweeping changes to their SURVIVOR judging program.
SURVIVOR Corvettes are those that have remained largely original since new. They can be used as a guide by others restoring similar cars. As the SURVIVOR mantra goes, they’re “Worn in, but not worn out.” They are historically significant and shouldn’t be restored.
The new SURVIVOR award measures a car’s originality in Gold, Silver, and Bronze levels similar to Certification judging.
SURVIVOR GOLD award winners are 80% or more unrestored in all four sections (interior, exterior, engine, and chassis).
SURVIVOR SILVER Corvettes are 66% or more unrestored in all four sections. Finally,
SURVIVOR BRONZE winners are more than 50% unrestored in any three sections.
Furthermore, all SURVIVOR Corvettes will have OEM Engine stamps and VIN Tags. Like before, eligible cars need to be more than 20 years old and successfully complete the 10 mile road test. The new SURVIVOR judging standards will be used for the first time on Sunday, June 28th at the
2014 Bloomington Gold show
Means nothing anymore outside of the Corvette crowd, just as the terms Classic (in accordance with the CCCA), Vintage, and Antique have been diluted down. Barn finds can be found in your own garage now...
This seems to be another of the much debated, never agreed upon terms where one organization may have defined the rules for use within their system but the car world in general uses the term however they wish to apply it.
"Survivor"
"Muscle Car"
"Restored" when applied to a desirable car which has, for example, been rebodied, given a new chassis, received a different engine
"Cloned/Tribute" What's the difference...
And so on.
I recently saw a nice VW Beetle which was stated as being a survivor. In truth, it had received many modifications through the years although they were generally period correct bolt on items which were never offered by VW. 80% of the paint was original, as was the interior. The owner kept all the original pieces, but in it's current state should it be called a survivor? Or perhaps a Day 2 survivor.
My pet peeve term is “original mileage.” What would be unoriginal mileage?
…
If you're gonna get us going on pet peeves...how about "Great Condition for it's age" to describe a crusty rusty 60 year old car? It's either in great condition or it ain't!
Does this even matter. I'd care about it not having rust. than if I can call it a survivor or not. Most take a sellers ad's as marketing.
Maybe it matters to the auction crowd that mothballs vehicles in a warehouse. but to those that enjoy driving them. I think it is a moot point.
Me thinks the hobby gets too tied up on things like this.
Frankly any old car that made it past the state of being worthless and didn't end up in a junkyard to be parted or crush is a survivor.
At one time these cars were just used cars worth almost nothing to the point that if it needed say a valve job or a transmission rebuild, the repair cost was more than the car was worth. You'd junk your daily if that happens. The fact that many of these made it past that stage is amazing .
I think much of the 60-70's cars made it without a date with the crusher was because they were parked in the mid 70's when fuel was an issue.
Last edited by CutlassMarc; Jul 11, 2025 at 01:32 PM.
The issue is that terms used in slang and advertising are imprecise, thus something for sale can be, sometimes deliberately, misrepresented by those terms. Discussions like this are an attempt to make order from chaos.
Thank you Koda. I realize it may seem like a somewhat stupid question & that is what I always believed it to be. Right up until the photos in countless ads of an odometer with single or 2-3 digits that does not agree with what the ad calls original miles. Just more BS, dishonest marketing and obfuscation I guess.
I Guess there’s a lot of “George Washington’s axe” involved in barn finds & “classic” car marketing..
My 1982 Collector Corvette is what I'd call a survivor. PO died and the car sat for 20 years. He bought it in 1984 from the Pontiac/Jaguar dealership it was traded in to , likely from original owner. I think it still has the original spark plugs and distributor cap. ( the fuel tank & system was replaced due to sitting & everything works except AC likely just leaked out.)
Paint & interior original & worn. 66 000 miles and drives like new ! I have a nice used interior & new interior to go in at some point.
