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Is it wise, and or safe, to lift an engine and trans, with a plate that bolts to the carb flange? They scare me .I have always used the lift hook on the front , and bolted a chain to the rear of the head . Have not found found any where on this engine to bolt to. Engine is 87 307 and 2004R
I don’t usually pull the trans with the engine, but I have in the past. But I always wind up using a carb plate.
if it gives you piece of mind, separate them.
I and millions of others have been using carb lift plates for close to a half of century with no issues. They should be used with a leveler if you're pulling both the engine and transmission.
Having installed more than my share of helicoils in the carb bolt holes of aluminum intakes, I remain skeptical of those plates. Yeah, my brain knows that one 5/16 bolt is strong enough to lift the engine - I still don't do it. My load leveler has chains that attach to the ends of the heads anyway, so why bother with a plate. 3/8 bolts in shear give me a lot more confidence.
Assuming the bolts are the proper grade, and the threads are in good shape, ONE 5/16 bolt has more than enough shear and tensile strength to handle the entire engine and transmission, with an considerably safety margin.
I stand corrected. One grade 8 5/16 bolt has more than enough shear strength to hold the entire car, with a huge safety margin. I’d be concerned with the lifting plate failing first before the bolts breaking.
Like I said, it's not the bolts I'm worried about, it's the threads in the manifold. Cast aluminum has a shear strength of about 26,000 psi. That assumes perfectly formed and loaded threads, which they are not. Any intake manifold casting has internal flaws. The other problem is that any tilting of the engine (and trans if attached) significantly increases the load on the "uphill" fastener. And finally, if you are tilting, it makes a lot more sense to use an engine tilter that's as long as possible, which puts the attaching chains at the ends of the block/heads. Sorry, but I just never understood the rationale for using the carb flange as a lift point. And finally, the community constantly craps on Chinesium jackstands, and the need for belt-and-suspenders, but folks are perfectly OK with these Chinesium lift plates with sketchy welds in tension. Go figure.
Just be careful with those cheap chineseum load levels. This one came from Princess Auto, a Canadian version of Harbor Freight. Only used once to pull engine and trans together. Failure wasn't noted until after the engine was mounted on the stand, but obviously I got very lucky here.
I had been debating whether or not to use the carb plate lift when installing the new engine with aluminum intake...but yeah...too many hard earned dollars to be taking avoidable risks.
I don't trust them; won't use one on my own. I just helped a friend drop a RA IV, Muncie, and clutch in hanging off a carb plate, though. His stuff, his problem if it breaks.
We use reusable hooks bolted on in shear load to the aluminum heads, two bolts per hook. The hooks get take off once the engine is set to the frame and sent back to the engine plant. The hoist end effector clips onto the hooks. Those two in the pics aren't mine, but
some I have made that are similar have lifted millions of engines over the past decade. Aluminum threads are not strong, as Joe mentioned. Really, the best way to lift an Olds engine would be a bracket that attached to all head accessory holes and had a large hook for a chain.
Failing that, a bolt with thick washer and spacer bolting a chain link on to a head accessory bolt hole, fully threaded in, with a spreader bar, would be the way I would do it.
I have used the engine lift plate without issues, but as noted above, aluminum castings are a concern. The engine itself is relatively low risk (in my opinion) but I feel like the addition of the transmission greatly increases the risk.
There are some engines out there without head bolt accessory holes, so you end up needing to lift from the intake (or from the exhaust manifold bolts with straps). I bought one of these Mac's pivot plates and it worked really well on my first install with it. It's pricey but it was nice to drop something in with complete control of the angle.
Somebody has to have the picture saved of how Olds lifted their engines in the plant... it was a steel bar that hooked the intake manifold strap and then the hole cast into the back of the block.
I think this is a stock end effector. This is the REO Museum with the H/OCA trip last year. It's an old style end effector (it's technically a "below the hook lifting device", but my company calls them end effectors) and the idea was to lean side away from you down and hook it first, then pull down on your side and scoop that hook while maintaining tension, then lift.
We got away from those styles because of needing to do multiple engine types on one hoist, THEN we went to latching hooks because they could bounce off the chains while on the conveyor.
Last edited by Koda; January 5th, 2023 at 07:31 AM.
I think this is a stock end effector. This is the REO Museum with the H/OCA trip last year. It's an old style end effector (it's technically a "below the hook lifting device", but my company calls them end effectors) and the idea was to lean side away from you down and hook it first, then pull down on your side and scoop that hook while maintaining tension, then lift.
We got away from those styles because of needing to do multiple engine types on one hoist, THEN we went to latching hooks because they could bounce off the chains while on the conveyor.
Chris Witt had one of those factory lift fixtures. I took lots of photos and dimensions when I visited the REO Museum so I can make one. Yeah, it's in the queue...
Other than hook geometry, the only critical dimension is distance between hooks. Our multi engine ones hold the hooks up by the beam with tool balancers, and you fly it in, and pull down and latch the hooks you want, then lift.
I use a chain and new grade 8 bolts. I never use cheap "proof coil" chain either. I use grade 70 transport chain as a minimum and prefer grade 80. The latter is rated for lifting, while technically up through grade 70 is not.
Last edited by Run to Rund; January 6th, 2023 at 05:47 PM.
The factory uses 3/8" 16 TPI bolts to retain the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds and transmission to the engine block. As others stated I'm not concerned about the 5/16 bolt but I am uncomfortable with the 5/16" internal threads. In a textbook world the carb plate should be fine but with a touch of Murphy's Law...
January 3rd, 2023, 10:25 AM
