Hello all - I'm Jay for those that I haven't spoken to yet

First of all, Im basically a complete newbie to american cars; I have owned only two old cars before now (both were OHC engined UK Ford Capris from the 1980s) and so my experience is zero with american classics.

Ive cleaned and regapped spark plugs, changed oil, coolant etc, but nothing major, so some terms are within my grasp but if I write anything here that seems obvious or stupid please bear with me!

I'm hoping you can all impart some advice; I've spotted a nice 1969 Toronado relatively close to me, and it looks to be very well-priced (for the UK, anyway).


I have a link to the car that is for sale here


I have been in touch with the owner briefly (they seem to be very busy), and they have told me there is no history with the car, which worried me a little, but that it does run. I don't know if it has front disc brakes or drums but I understand from research that it could be either, as the discs were introduced as an option in 1969?

The car would require a brake strip and check, and a complete service. It also would appear to have no interior (though whether that means no seats, or literally everything is gone, I don't know).

Ive read that the drum brakes weren't really that good, so if they require an overhaul I'm wondering if that would be an expensive proposition?

It also needs paint (this I'm not too bothered about yet as I can do that later, I would sand and prime it for now to keep rust at bay).

I haven't been to see the car yet. I just thought Id ask here first, before making the 6 hour round trip, to make sure that Im not missing something obviously wrong with it visually or otherwise.

I appreciate there is little anyone can tell me from the few photos the owner has posted, but also Id like advice on particular weaknesses, common rust points, difficult-to-acquire parts or anything else pertinent to the 1969 car.

Limited experience tells me to check the A pillars and arches for rust, and make sure the doors don't drop, but otherwise this car is alien to me.

Sorry for rambling!


Thanks in advance.

Jay

 

The 69 Toro is a very cool car. With that said, even in the states some of the parts are hard to come by, I would think it would be even harder at your location. By the way, there is nothing wrong with drum brakes and they are easy to work on. I would not use this car to be your first old American resto if your skill set and money are limited.

 

Hi Jay. First of all let me say that I have the utmost respect for anyone overseas who wants an American hobby car and is willing to commit the time and money needed to do a restoration on one. It is hard enough in the US these days so good show!


The first gen Toronado's are unique and wonderful cars from both a styling and an engineering point of view. They are great highway cars with good handling, smooth ride and lots of power. They are also very large, very heavy, and get terrible gas mileage. I think you are right about the choice of brakes but by 1969 they had switched to more common single caliper type and I think many more car were equipped with discs than the earlier models.


Surprisingly the first gen Toros have never become very popular with collectors. That's good because you can still buy them reasonably but bad because there is a very small base when it comes to parts availability and there is little interchange with other car models when it comes to body and interior items. Your location will compound this issue. If your budget situation will allow it you may want to shop for a good original or restored example here in the States rather than a rough project. If you decide to go for the project there are a lot of experts on here who can help. Good luck!

 

Welcome to the site Jay! I'm partial to 1969 Toro's myself, but I'm in agreement with the others. The interchange for parts is limited to other years of Toronado's, some parts on the Cadillac El Dorado, and some motor homes that used Toronado running gear. There's not as much reproduction parts as the Cutlass/442 so much of what you need will have to be good used parts, much of it shipped from the states. That said, if you decide to get it I'd encourage you to join the Toronado club to network with people who have these cars.

http://www.toronado.org/index.html

When you asked about rust areas, if it has a vinyl top look for bumps under it that could be rust. I have a 1969 Toro parts car with holes through the roof from this kind of rust. The vinyl top can also wick moisture into the top of the windshields both front and back to rust out the window channels. I dismantled a 1967 Toro that had a trickle of water coming down by the rear view mirror when it rained! The cars were built with several layers of padding/sound deadening under the carpet. If the windows leaked the padding may have kept the moisture against the floorboards causing them to rust through. Also the long stainless rocker trim can hide rust especially in the lower front fenders behind the wheel wells.

If your seriously considering buying the car there's a couple very good build thread you should read through. They can give you some insight into the early Toronado's, even though they are both 1966's much of what they went through will be similar to what you'd go through on the 1969.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ld-begins.html

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...frame-off.html

 

With your skills i wouldn't buy a project that needs a lot of work as others have suggested. Buy a car that is not needing work. Good luck which ever way you decide.

 

It looks nice from here, but, according to the text, the seller has just imported it from the US, which may mean that it had serious problems over here, which have yet to be discovered over there.

Considering the lack of UK parts availability, I would check it over VERY carefully, preferably along with a UK-based ClassicOlds member, before buying it.

- Eric

 

I am with most here, to restore one of these monsters is very expensive. There is not much to go on here with this. If you want a Toro find a nice one in the US and see what shipping would be. I think you will be far ahead of the game. One problem with these Toro's is the rubber CV joint boots. When they tear dirt and water enters the joints and wears out the bearings. These are expensive and I am not sure of availability.

 

Thank you all for your responses, I will take this on board and probably keep looking. The price seems a bit to good to be true, most others are more toward the £10k mark which I think is where I will have to aim!

Ill keep you all posted if I pursue it thanks again.

 

Welcome from another UK member Jay.

The place in Grimsby seems to specialise in importing American iron and selling it on pretty much as seen and unwarranted. Caveat Emptor - buyer beware!.
Remember, if a deal seems to good to be true, it probably is.

American Auto Club International host one of the bigger American Car shows at Billing Aquadrome over the third weekend in June, If you care to attend most of the owners of the cars on display will be happy to talk about the trials and tribulations of owning one of Detroits Finest over here,
Finding a very sound car might take a while, and will cost a fair bit. But old American Cars were built with big lazy engines that could tolerate poor maintenance, and shouldn't prove unreliable if you keep up with good maintenance. Perhaps surprisingly parts shouldn't cost more than for an old Ford Capri, and aren't that difficult to find either.

I urge you to avoid anything rusty, or sold as an "unfinished project" or with "a minor easily repaired fault". As a Capri owner I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

Good luck with your search, look forward to reading more post from you soon. Don't hesitate to ask about anything you aren't sure about, you have joined one of the best car forums full of people only too willing to help you enjoy owning an Oldsmobile.

Roger.

 

When restoring almost any car, the cost is always important to pay attention to. Many will say I will never sell it. But, the truth is many do. If you start with a car that has not much resellability to start with. Then you are spending lots of time and money on a car you will lose money on. It costs the same to paint and do body work on almost any car. Depending on the amount of damage and prep needed but the model of the car does not effect the cost generally. Upholstery is not cheap and is about the same in most cars. but if the interior is gone that creates a even larger issue. Shipping parts to anywhere is getting expensive and overseas is just crazy expensive. Rebuilding a 455 engine is not cheap and no matter what model car it is the same price. Rebuilding a Th425 Toronado trans may be more expensive than doing a th400 just because it is different and some trans shops might want more to do it. As others have pointed out, it is hard and expensive to do a car here in the USA. I admire your interest and suggest you find one that needs some detail work and minor face lift rather than a full restoration. Plus one that will yield some value when done.

You might find one on this side of the pond and have it shipped to you cheaper in the end. I can't stress enough to get any one inspected by someone who knows these cars.

These are a huge amount of fun and I admire your interest and hope you find the right car for you.

Just my two cents.

Larry

 

Its looking now that I will be waiiting for a better condition car to come up, and the lack of parts for the Toronado is a concern.

Thank you for your advice people I appreciate it! Hopefully in the near future I will find something more worthwhile.

I will see about getting to the show too, thanks for the tip Roger

 

Welcome to the site.


Speaking as someone that was stationed for 3 years in Scotland and another 4 in England, I would say that if the car was imported into the UK (probably) I would try to find out how long ago that was. The laws might have changed since the late '90s but I remember that it was very hard for us Americans to bring over any car with rust issues. If the rust was bad enough to keep it from passing an MOT right away, the UK government would not allow us to bring it over. What I'm trying to say is that if the car has not been in the UK that long, any rust will most likely be of the "cosmetic" variety.


When it comes to drum brakes...I love 'em and have worked on them for years. I have them on my '71 Cutlass and have never had a problem. However (BIG however), I never drive my car in bad weather. If you still get as much rain as I remember and you plan on having this as a daily driver, I would switch at least the front to disk brakes. The main issue with drums is if you are unused to them, they do have a tendency to lock up in wet weather.


Just dropping my 2 cents (or pence) worth. Final opinion 10 thousand quid sounds like a lot unless the car is just about complete. I would try talking them down to about 7-8 if there are any issues.

 

Jay, I hope you find another car as a project. Too bad there were so many drawbacks to the Toronado. Welcome to the site!

 

I agree with all said above. I've had 3 '69 Toronados, and I started the Blue & Gray Chapter of Olds Club of America OCA, back around 1985. They are great cars when right, but expensive to restore, limited in value when done, thirsty (10-11 mpg) to drive, and hard to find parts for. For your 1st Yank tank I'd advise a rwd '60s or '70s Olds 88, 98, or (more $$$) Cutlass/4-4-2, or, if you want a big "personal luxury car" like the Toro, I know it's heresy, but a '60s Buick Riviera or T Ford T-bird would be a good choice, and much easier to deal with... my $.02!