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1966 442 resto vs resto mod

Old April 9th, 2015, 08:48 AM
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1966 442 resto vs resto mod

I have a Olds 442 I am getting ready to do a restoration on, it is a numbers matching car with a 400 engine 4 speed standard. It has no ac and no power brakes. I am having a hard time deciding what I should do as far as going all original or to put modern parts in it to help with the stoping ability, handling, and so forth. I would like to preserve the value to where it is worth the most. So hoping for some help in this. What can I change and keep the value as high as possible?

Paint color?
Interior?
Engine parts for more power?
suspension?
Brakes?
Adding ac?

Any help would be great thanks.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 08:55 AM
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In my opinion a stock restored car will bring higher value than a modified car all things being equal. When you start making changes you are bringing your likes and wants into the mix. Come time to sell you will need to find someone who likes and agrees to the changes you have made. This could be a problem especially if we are talking about paint, interior, trim, wheel/tire combo. Basic improvements on braking and handling would in my opinion not be so much a worry if done correctly.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 09:14 AM
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Are you going to drive it or sell it?

If drive make it what you like and keep the original parts in case at some point you do sell it

If sell it restore to original.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
it is a numbers matching car
Keep in mind that "numbers matching" means that a derivative of the VIN is stamped on the engine and transmission, and this shows that the engine and transmission are original to the car.

But Oldsmobile didn't start stamping a VIN derivative on the engine, etc. until the 1968 model year. So no pre-1968 Oldsmobile can ever be a "numbers matching" car. All that you can say is that the date stamp on the engine is consistent with (a few weeks before) the build date of the car itself. But there is no way to absolutely prove that the engine in a pre-1968 Oldsmobile is original to that car unless you've tracked the car's existence since it was first purchased new and know its full history.

"Numbers matching" is one of the most misunderstood and misused terms in all of the old car hobby.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 10:14 AM
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My feeling is that if you plan on keeping the car for yourself, do what you want and the heck with what other people think. Cars have ALWAYS been an extension of the owner's personality and preferences (shape, color, performance, etc...). Unless it's a "rare" car, the difference in selling price between an all original and a resto-mod is negligible anyway.


My advice, do what you want to make it more enjoyable to drive and keep the old parts to sell with the car at some future time.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Keep in mind that "numbers matching" means that a derivative of the VIN is stamped on the engine and transmission, and this shows that the engine and transmission are original to the car.

But Oldsmobile didn't start stamping a VIN derivative on the engine, etc. until the 1968 model year. So no pre-1968 Oldsmobile can ever be a "numbers matching" car.
While I agree with you, pre-1968 cars had the engine and trans unit numbers matched to the VIN on the Protect-O-Plate. If the O.P. has the P-O-P, then it can be a "numbers matching" car.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Keep in mind that "numbers matching" means that a derivative of the VIN is stamped on the engine and transmission, and this shows that the engine and transmission are original to the car.

But Oldsmobile didn't start stamping a VIN derivative on the engine, etc. until the 1968 model year. So no pre-1968 Oldsmobile can ever be a "numbers matching" car. All that you can say is that the date stamp on the engine is consistent with (a few weeks before) the build date of the car itself. But there is no way to absolutely prove that the engine in a pre-1968 Oldsmobile is original to that car unless you've tracked the car's existence since it was first purchased new and know its full history.

"Numbers matching" is one of the most misunderstood and misused terms in all of the old car hobby.
What if you have the POP with the engine # on it? I would say yes it's a matching # car if you have the POP,sales documents etc.

Sorry Joe,didn't see you absolutely correct post about the matching # 67 and earlier cars.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 11:07 AM
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With careful selection of parts, you can upgrade performance while looking stock.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 11:18 AM
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If you have a numbers-matching 4-4-2 (ie: all numbers match the Protect-O-Plate and/or factory order form), then you need to restore it to its original condition.

There are plenty of non-matching cars out there to butcher - Why wreck one of the few remaining originals?

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Old April 9th, 2015, 12:27 PM
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Dude, you have a low optioned, stick shift, 442. The only thing better would be all that and a convertible. It would be foolish and a crime to irrevocably modify such a rare, valuable car. Example, rough numbers. A restored automatic 66 Cutlass will pull 10 or 12. A 442 will pull 20, a stick shift 442 will pull 30.

If you want a modern driver, buy a roller Cutlass for 2k and a 455 for 1k. Then build your restomod out of that and sell the 442 to someone who will properly restore it for 10k. Or, learn to drive and love the 442 in its original shape.

They are correct on the protectoplate being the "numbers" but that is NOT a reason to go butchering the engine because "there's no way to prove it's the original." My 442 is rusty. The engine is rusty. I don't have the POP, but I know, based on the condition, that it is either the original engine, or it has been there 30 of the 48 years it's been alive.

If you're set on the restomod, sell that 442 here and finance the restomod of a Cutlass with a 455.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 12:34 PM
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If it were mine, I would add power steering and Vintage Air and keep the rest stock. That is just me. It is your car but you asked for opinions.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
What can I change and keep the value as high as possible?
Maybe nothing.
What does the 442 look like? The hobby has begun to "value" original cars very highly.
As far as changes, if value is your goal, I would not change a thing except for maybe disc brakes.
If you hate the original color, I would only repaint it in another '66 Olds color. If you can live with the colors on the trim tag, that's where the most value will be to largest number of buyers.
That said, like many here, I'm also a member of the AACA. Original cars are my favorite.
The only mods I do are to make the cars more drivable, durable and dependable for long distance touring, and rallying.


Jerry
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Old April 10th, 2015, 07:01 AM
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Thank you all for your opinions and feedback. It is very good to know what you guys are saying about the numbers matching and not being able to prove the engine and trans being original. I have taken it to a guy that does nothing but restore cars and from the vin plate and the info I have on the car (I am the 4th owner and the guy I bought it from had it the longest by far) he said it is all original. I bought the car in 2001 and I am just now having the time and money to restore the car. I like everything about the color and interior the main things I was thinking of changing was the brakes and suspension. I do like to see the history of the cars when they are original but I also like performance, this has been my problem in deciding on what to do. After reading what everyone has said I think I will go back to original. I agree with it being rear and a hard to find thing and see the point in it being a shame to change it. I also would like to just keep the car and preserve the value to be able to pass it down to one of my kids at some time.
Thanks again for the help
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Old April 10th, 2015, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
TI have taken it to a guy that does nothing but restore cars and from the vin plate and the info I have on the car (I am the 4th owner and the guy I bought it from had it the longest by far) he said it is all original.
I would suggest that you educate yourself about this car if you plan to put substantial money into it, rather that trusting "a guy". I'm skeptical of this guy because the VIN on that car won't tell you much, and certainly won't tell you if the car is "original". It won't even tell you if it's a real 442 or not, as the 442 didn't become it's own model line with a unique VIN until the 1968 model year. Buyer beware. There are a lot of self-proclaimed "experts" who really aren't.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
... from the vin plate and the info I have on the car... he said it is all original.
How can he say that?
Does the info you have on the car include the Protect-O-Plate or the original factory order sheet (which can easily be counterfeited)?
Can he sense the molecular resonance of the metal, which tells you it has not been disturbed?

Sure, there's a decent chance it is original, if you haven't screwed with it in the past 15 years, and if the previous owner owned it long enough that it wouldn't have been worth messing with it at the time, but I want to know how he KNEW it was all original, even though fifty years have passed since it was made.

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Old April 10th, 2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by twintracks View Post
Maybe nothing.
What does the 442 look like? The hobby has begun to "value" original cars very highly.
As far as changes, if value is your goal, I would not change a thing except for maybe disc brakes.
If you hate the original color, I would only repaint it in another '66 Olds color. If you can live with the colors on the trim tag, that's where the most value will be to largest number of buyers.
That said, like many here, I'm also a member of the AACA. Original cars are my favorite.
The only mods I do are to make the cars more drivable, durable and dependable for long distance touring, and rallying.


Jerry
I take the view if you don't cut weld or otherwise irrevocably change the car, do what you want. I like to modernize my classics. Suspension and steering upgrades, brakes, Vintage Air etc. All of the changes resulted in 1 welded plate to my firewall to support the A/C box. All original parts (control arms, A/C components, etc are on shelves in the garage. I get a great ride with modern alignment specs etc. The new owner will pull all this stuff off to restore it anyway, so I figure no real hit to value. Just my opinion.

If you have a 100% untouched survivor in pristine shape, then I would lean towards leaving it alone, there are so few of those left out there as it is.
Tim

Last edited by tmaleck; April 10th, 2015 at 02:52 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 03:17 PM
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I'm with the original poster on this - that it stay all original, or as original as you believe it to be. Trace back to the previous owners if you can. If you don't have any original documentation, they may still have it.


Randy C.
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Old April 11th, 2015, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tmaleck View Post
I take the view if you don't cut weld or otherwise irrevocably change the car, do what you want. I like to modernize my classics. Suspension and steering upgrades, brakes, Vintage Air etc. All of the changes resulted in 1 welded plate to my firewall to support the A/C box. All original parts (control arms, A/C components, etc are on shelves in the garage. I get a great ride with modern alignment specs etc. The new owner will pull all this stuff off to restore it anyway, so I figure no real hit to value. Just my opinion.

If you have a 100% untouched survivor in pristine shape, then I would lean towards leaving it alone, there are so few of those left out there as it is.
Tim

Heck yes Tim, do what makes you happy. We're all in this together.
I simply added my 2 cents from the standpoint of value to answer his question directly, and from a personal preference for original cars.
And, no I don't care if everyone (or anyone for that matter) agrees with me. I also have no personal interest in pristine low miles trailer cars, because I like to drive them. "Drive 'em all". Though I'm a member of the AACA, I'll probably never win a senior award. I just don't care about paint markings, and hose clamps.
I tried to go visit family last weekend in my original '37 Olds. I had to turn around when I saw heavy snow on the map north of Green Bay. If it wasn't for road salt, I would have kept going. I have working heat, defrost, and working vacuum wipers. I still covered nearly 300 miles in one day. And every mile I cover transports me back to an auto age nearly as old as my father.


Cheers, Jerry
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