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Looking for opinions. Should I restore/uodate, or stay the course? Mostly original "survivor" 1969 Cutlass S convertible, original paint, numbers matching 350-2brl Jetaway. 80k miles. Some rust on lower half, good floors/trunk green w/ black buckets.
I have converted to correct 69 factory style disc brakes, added SSII, and converted to HEI. Kept all the original parts.
When I bought the car there was a bad repair to the driver quarter panel wheel well opening and top was replaced going from black to white.
I'm mostly a factory styling guy so I won't go too far into restomod.
I enjoy the car, but like to tinker. Thinking 4brl or fuel injection with current block. TH-350 or 200r4. Rear sway bar, seat covers and new top.
Is this car close enough to "survivor" or far enough down the path of used and a little abused that I should I go all in with paint, wheels, etc? https://classicoldsmobile.com/g/picture/13688581
All depends upon if you want to restore for your enjoyment vs an investment
If you enjoy the work of restoring a car go for it, if not then do the things that get you the most enjoyment from.
I have a 65 in semi-original condition, started off resealing the drivetrain, dropped a valve shortly after sealing up things,, and now a built 455/200r4 looking to go in this year. Still doubt I will do any bodywork or repairs on that front just keep it a nice driver.
Might be a California emissions setup. A friend had a 67 Delta convertible with one that looked like that. Looks like some hoses might be missing from it, though, I don't remember how the whole thing looked.
By the way, they're only original once. Enjoy it for what it is.
As a owner of a 69 Cutlass, these cars are my passion.
It’s not a 442, Hurst Olds, Ram Rod car, or anything special. It’s never going to have any serious collector value other than being a classic car.
Keeping that in mind, I’d build it whatever way I would enjoy it most. If it were me, I’d give it a cosmetic restoration, install a Q-Jet, 2004r trans, do the disc brakes and upgrade the steering gear box, and drive it. Leave the cars personality alone, just enhance the driving experience.
Do the modifications right, 95% of the people who see the car won’t know anything is different, but it will drive, ride and perform much better. The overdrive trans will make the car seem like it has 75 hp more than it has now, with much better highway drivability. Disc brakes are good, the newer steering gearbox will get rid of the “powerful” one finger overboosted power steering these cars had new. Properly tuned, I wouldn’t be surprised if a Q-Jet will provide the same fuel economy (or maybe a little better) than the 2 bbl, with that wonderful Q-Jet WOT wail.
If your goal is to drive it for awhile and sell it, leave it alone. If your planning to enjoy it long term, I would do the tasteful invisible upgrades to make it more enjoyable. Just my opinion.
What's wrong with "overboosted", easy power steering?
I prefer my steering wheel to feel like it’s on a car instead of a boat.
I just don’t care for the overboosted powerful steering these cars had new. The later gearboxes cut the number of turns lock to lock in about half, and just drive better in my opinion.
Good catch on the air cleaner. It's from a 67 Turnpike Cruiser as Tru-Blue 442 noted. It fits without hitting the Olds HEI. Don't know if the 4-brl version would still work, mine is the 2brl version, I just left the Climate Combustion Control overlay off. Didn't have correct washer to hold it in place. Stove pipe is not connected as also noted, still trying to come up with something that will work for that.
Thanks for the opinions. It's not an investment car it's a drive and enjoy car. I've had it for about 10 years. Did all the mechanical stuff to make it drive nice and safe (at least by 1969 standards). Now it's time to improve it or move on. I like the suggestions for making it better. Thanks!
My thoughts on restoration is that is not, and will not be, a valuable car. I don't think there is any value, or point, in restoring it to the show car n'th degree.
I do think a lot of fun could be have for not much money doing some engine work, quadrajet, manifold, cam, OD trans and an aggressive rear will make it mean enough for fun.
Replace the top and clean it up, fix serious rust, touch up the paint, and have a car to enjoy. Hell, put a manual 5 speed in it if you want.
I think the car presents decently and is quite respectable as a driver and cruiser. If it were mine I would replace the top and associated items and drive it. Maybe build an engine with a bit more power than you think you want, leaning toward torque and drivability. Put in a 3 spd or 200-4R trans and grin away every time you drive it. If you want more down the line, swap in a lower rear gear and limited slip if not presently equipped, that’s where you really get the bonus with the 200-4R.
You could also go from the reverse angle if your engine is sound. Start with a trans change (big difference), maybe a rear gear swap (big difference), throw on a Qjet and intake (very noticeable difference), dual exhaust (some difference, headers too=noticeable difference), ignition curve and detailed tune up (some difference). This can be done incrementally with very little down time, it limits large $$$ outlays at any given time and will make really noticeable improvements in the drivability and performance of the car.
If incremental, my order would be-
0) New convertible top $1200-2200
1) Transmission swap (with forethought as to gearing and engine mods) ~ $1500-3500
2) Carb/Intake swap (w/ consideration towards pump/fuel line/sender upgrade as well, can wait til later if found to be necessary) ~ $400-800
I would only fix what I had to cosmetically and put every spare dollar into mechanics. Make it look run of the mill but run like a million bucks! You cannot go wrong with it though. It is yours! Good luck!!
BCCAN, thanks for the tips and cost estimates. Today, I'm thinking trans top, and engine improvements.
To those that mentioned the color, I believe it's called Glade Green Metallic. Yes, this is the original paint from the factory, no repaints (except that old repair 🤮 on the driver's quarter). Trunk lid paint is beyond repair,.hood can be brought back a little. That passenger side is the money shot though 😋
A high five to those of you who are recommending getting a 200R4. This is exactly what I did with my blue 79 Calais when I blew up my M200 due to the 3:08 posi I installed first. The drivability can't be beat, especially on the HWY where you want it most. I keep it in 3rd until I'm at a constant 45 to 50 miles per hour and/or get onto the hwy and then I drop it into 4th and watch the tach drop down to 1800-1900 rpm at around 65. Good for the car, good for my wallet especially with gas prices on the up again! If you have a 2:73 rear the RPMs would be even better but with the 200R4 you can go 3:23 or even 3:73 before you are taxing the overdrive at HWY speeds.
Good catch on the air cleaner. It's from a 67 Turnpike Cruiser as Tru-Blue 442 noted. It fits without hitting the Olds HEI. Don't know if the 4-brl version would still work, mine is the 2brl version, I just left the Climate Combustion Control overlay off. Didn't have correct washer to hold it in place. Stove pipe is not connected as also noted, still trying to come up with something that will work for that.
If and when you go for a 4 bbl. I have one of the off-set breathers for the HEI 455. I believe it was only a 2 year design, 75-76 but not positive on that.
+1 on the 200-4R swap. I'd do what I'm doing w/ my car, started w/ a rear-axle rebuild (out of necessity because the axle seals were leaking) to upgrade the 2.78 open to a 3.90 posi, followed by the 200-4R swap (the Jetaway was leaking), and now pending an engine rebuild (looking towards the SBO stroker kit and new Edlebrock heads). Replace the top, carpet and upholstery, freshen the paint and it'll drive and look better than new.
I think the highest gear offered with the overdrive trans was a 2.73, probably in a very light car or S-10 truck. Most cars with a overdrive trans had a minimum of a 3.08, 3.42 and 3.73 were used in the Grand Nationals and 442/ Monte Carlo.
A 3.42 or 3.73 gear is ideal for most applications. Any 2004R in good condition will live behind a mild 350. Find one in good condition, install a decent shift kit and servo, a remanufactured grand National/442 converter, and have fun.
Swapping a 200-4R or even TH350 (or whatever 3-4 speed AT) would be a night and day driving difference over the 2 speed even with highway gears. Swap the rear gears to something lower and the acceleration characteristics are absolutely transformed. An OD trans with “stout for the street” rear gear is fantastic as you get all the benefits. An Olds TH trans is an easy swap and 200-4R is the easiest OD retrofit, thus my preference for it.
A stockish 350 will play nice with a stockish 200-4R if it isn’t beat too bad. My kid’s red car has an original BRF with CK shift kit & servo added after 100k and is probably hitting the 200k mileage mark behind a 350ish hp 350, likely because he doesn’t beat it but it went to the track a few times. The D5 converter crapped itself last spring. I have hurt a few 200’s in the blue car but the full billet unit presently in it has been going strong for about 10 years now and shows no signs of impending failure.
With 3.08 and “normal” size tires red car turns about 1800 rpm at 70 mph. Blue car with 3.90 turns 2300 rpm at 70.
That's exactly right and that's another big benefit of getting the OD, longevity of your motor and trans. This is key for someone wanting to drive wherever and whenever for years to come. My switchover to the 200R4 was done 18 years ago and still no issues. As much as I'd like to get a 350 for this car, the rebuilt 260 I had dropped in back in 1992 is still running great and probably in part to the overdrive (and in part due to running synthetic oil since mile 1) shows no signs of quitting.
As far as power goes, the 200R4 gave me a power upgrade that went from horrible to bad, but I think with your set up you will be in a much better place than my smog 260.
About the only thing positive with a 260 is they are reliable and good on gas. I drove.a 80 cutlass with the “mighty” 260, I couldn’t wait to swap in a powerhouse 307!!
You know a 260 is a weak engine when a 307 is a huge improvement!!
I might refuse to drive a car with a 260 if I bought it out of protest until swapped.
I would be worried about lugging a stock engine with 2.73 rear and a 0.67 OD ratio, that's 1600 rpm on normal tires at 70. A normal 350 won't do it, or would be hurting, in my judgment.
I’ll agree that a2.73 gear with a 260 (or even a 307) wouldn’t be a good choice. I’m betting a decent 350 would have the torque needed to move a car at 1600rpm.
A lot would depend on tire size and vehicle weight. A light car, or closer to stock tire diameter might offset things.
Both are good points, back in 1992 I barely had the dough to get my 260 rebuilt, I just didn't have the cash for a swap to a 350 way back then. When the 200R4 was first installed in 2003 it was recommended I swap to a 350 since my 3:08's would lug the 260 at low speeds if I kept it in OD, which is 100% true. That's why I leave it in 3rd around town.
