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I have a Maradyne Dual fan setup on my car and it works great. I set it up as pushers (mounted in front of rad) and used their wiring kit and thermostat.
Considering putting electric radiator fans on 69 Cutlass 350 to get better performance. Any thoughts, experience or suggestions on which fan?
What type of "better performance" are you expecting to get from this? A properly sized and functioning thermal clutch fan will be more reliable and will move more air. Electric fans can block airflow at highway speeds.
You were told wrong. I have run my car back to back at the track, with and without the fan, the car ran the same. A thermal fan clutch free wheels until the engine gets warm enough to engage the clutch. You will know when the clutch engages, it has a distinctive roar sound. A good thermal clutch and proper fan will move more are than any reasonable electric fan.
If electric fans could move more air than mechanical fans, big trucks would run them.
I wasn't promoting any specific configuration and offered the link for people to use the information as it suits them. I didn't, and don't, much care where the report came from. Just for the record, Summit offers a pretty good selection of clutch fans...and good old fashion ''state of the past'' fans, as well. Since they noted the clutch fan as having ''best overall cooling ability'' I reckon Summit might be a tad biased toward those, too. I considered that someone might be concerned about bias but, thought that a summary of the alternatives might be beneficial. Which, I believe, the OP was looking for.
But, on to personal experience...
I have a mechanical fan, as born, on my mildly cam'ed / built '70 Nova and electric fan to supplement the mechanical on my cam'ed and mildly modified '76 Cutlass. Both operate in the Texas heat with no problem while trying to push 400 HP out of those old 350's
As a point of interest, The electric fan is ''switched'' on the dash to use as needed. It is, also, tied to the ignition so it will turn off with the engine.
If you want to go to electric fans get one from a salvage yard. I have an electric fan from a mid 90s Ford Taurus with a 3.8l v6 in my 71 98. It's a 2 speed fan. I have LO wired to a temperature sender and HI wired to manually ON. I also got a dual electric fan off of a late 90s Ford Windstar for my 86 f250. I have it wired similarly to my Oldsmobile and it cools my truck just fine (and my truck is a diesel). If you buy an aftermarket fan you have to spend BIG bucks to get one that is as good as one you can find in a salvage yard. Another good fan is the one from an early 2000s Ford Contour with the 2.5l v6, it's just a bit harder to get since it's jammed in there. IMHO, an electric fan is an excellent upgrade.
After GM spends many $$ on research to find the best cooling systems and you guys think an electric fan is better? Where is your research and actual thermodynamic proof?
I did choose dual electric fans. Not for the sake are they better or not- my original fan tunnel is shot, so i figured out its easier to "upgrade" to electric fans than trying to a) find, and b) get someone to ship me intact tunnel + postages would be killer. Of course electric fans need a "tunnel" too, but its easier to fabricate. Have converted previous cars to electric fans too, again due to shot and unobtanium fan tunnel. I never materialized any promised performance gain from the swap, only lighter wallet, so pick your poison, they say.
Some pointers from personal experience.
Try to cover as high percentage of radiator core with fans, as possible. Either going dual fans, as big as you can fit side-to-side on core, or one big, and build an fan tunnel like the original, which actually pulls from the whole core. Cant beat original there. You even see setups where guy has installed 14" fan in the middle of the core, and closed the rest of the radiator-core with an metal-plate, geez. Then they wonder why it overheats.
You can also build flaps on the fan-tunnel, with rubber-flaps which opens from wind pressure when driving, and closes when on city, directing all flow through fans, whereas those same flaps open when driving, allowing more area for "wind" to cool bypassing radiator. Factories use this too.
Dont buy the cheapest fan(s). Buy from someone who actually is on market for making fans, like SPAL. You see those high marketing numbers, 1900cfm- 19A draw. Sure- without any restrictions. And thats all information most list. You can click the link below to SPAL homesite, where you can choose multiple fans, and they actually show how amperage draw raises and flow decreases when any restriction has been applied. Restriction, wheres that? Easy- the radiator on front of your fan(s) is restriction itself. Spending some time on SPAL site, checking different fans, reveals that even some of their designs fall on their face, while amperage draw ramps up, when any restriction is applied. But they have their uses where they are recommended to be used.
All I can say is that my Oldsmobile and my Ford diesel truck cool just fine with salvage yard electric fans. The fan clutch on my truck failed and I decided to upgrade to an electric fan. First I bought a cheapie electric fan from Jegs. It didn't cool the truck well. When discussing it with a coworker he suggested the salvage yard electric fans I listed above. After I converted my diesel truck to an electric fan I decided to upgrade my Oldsmobile as well. It was a fun weekend project. Actually, I found a 3G alternator for my truck on the same Ford Taurus which had an electric fan for my Oldsmobile.
All I can say is that my Oldsmobile and my Ford diesel truck cool just fine with salvage yard electric fans. The fan clutch on my truck failed and I decided to upgrade to an electric fan. First I bought a cheapie electric fan from Jegs. It didn't cool the truck well. When discussing it with a coworker he suggested the salvage yard electric fans I listed above. After I converted my diesel truck to an electric fan I decided to upgrade my Oldsmobile as well. It was a fun weekend project. Actually, I found a 3G alternator for my truck on the same Ford Taurus which had an electric fan for my Oldsmobile.
Salvage yard fans are obviously good too, after all they were assembled to factory warranted vehicles. If not knowing what fan to spesificially look for, good rule of thumb would be to look for one from roughly same sized/ engined car, so theyd have roughly same cooling need. Shrouding plays a huge part, bigger than many believe. My favourite example is VW Passat 3A, where many drove the front-lip to snow-wall, and drove them to mechanic just to not believe their overheating problem was just due to missing front lip.
If not knowing what fan to spesificially look for, good rule of thumb would be to look for one from roughly same sized/ engined car, so theyd have roughly same cooling need.
Good advice. The ones I suggested earlier are often used because the fan and shroud are flat and fit easily into a classic car.
Interestingly, I have the OE shroud on my Oldsmobile around the electric fan I installed. Conveniently, the Ford Windstar fan and shroud fit on my truck's radiator. All I had to do was turn it upside down.
From what I have read, the fans from big ford luxury cars work well. Any electric fan from a OEM car/truck is most likely superior to almost anything aftermarket.
the air flap on the shroud are a always good. Going down the highway, it’s easy to imagine the air getting trapped inside the shroud. The flaps provide a vent.
Don’t skimp on wiring. Fan draw 3-4 times their normal running current on startup. Obviously, the charging system needs to be able to keep up also.
You mean like the research $$$ GM spent on putting diesels in Oldsmobiles?
Just saying...
Oldsmobile put plenty of dollars into developing a diesel for their passenger cars. Unfortunately the bean counters chose to largely ignore the engineers......
However making cooling systems for internal combustion engines has been something every car manufacturer has had to address since the dawn of the automobile.
Yeah, like when GM developed Dex-cool and made it so it's not compatible with regular good old antifreeze. Makes the ''blend'' gel...and its hell to get cleared out.
Yeah, like when GM developed Dex-cool and made it so it's not compatible with regular good old antifreeze. Makes the ''blend'' gel...and its hell to get cleared out.
I read that in a book.
This is the fundamental problem with anecdotal "proof" of one's position. You all are cherry-picking the mistakes, not looking at the big picture. Mechanical fans have cooled just fine for, oh, a century or so. If spending money for an electric makes you sleep better, it's your money. The OP has a car that by his own admission is for "cruising, not highway". The mythical 15 HP gain wouldn't ever be seen under those conditions even if it did exist.
This is the fundamental problem with anecdotal "proof" of one's position. You all are cherry-picking the mistakes, not looking at the big picture. Mechanical fans have cooled just fine for, oh, a century or so. If spending money for an electric makes you sleep better, it's your money. The OP has a car that by his own admission is for "cruising, not highway". The mythical 15 HP gain wouldn't ever be seen under those conditions even if it did exist.
Actually, I was making fun of myself.
And...again...I wasn't picking one fan system over another. And again, I use both mechanical and electric.
Texas heat. Texas traffic. Old cars. Can't have too much fan.
Since you specifically quoted me, I have never been a ''fan'' of the mythical HP gain either. Much like HP gain with short tube headers. Even if you get it, you would never feel it.
Just for the record, I drive my cars and would take either one of them anywhere. In fact, I bought the Cutlass for a 3,500 trip. They are both good for highway and cruising the back roads.
Texas heat. Texas traffic. Old cars. Can't have too much fan.
I agree you can't have too much fan. Texas heat may make the folks from the Frozen Tundra of the North feel faint, but I've lived in Texas and it's rather mild compared to Arizona heat. My car with its factory clutch fan keeps the engine cool even in the blistering heat of Phoenix summer with the AC on in stop and go rush hour traffic.
I lived in Tucson in both military and private sector. We considered Phoenix the humid part of the state LOL. I had offices in both cities. Love both of them. Hell, the whole State, for that matter. Good people.
Taking The Queen to Phoenix in May. Well, she's going for business and letting me be her Uber Driver.
As a side note: During the oil "Shortage" of the '70s, Phoenix had gas lines and the even / odd thing going on. Sometimes with 10 gallon limits. In Tucson, we just drove up to the pumps...for the most part.
Be prepared for what you see here! This place has changed a lot over the past years with enormous expansion and crowding. News recently said 550,000 people moved into the state since 2015. Think about that - it's the equivalent of 5 cities with a population of 110,000 each in just 5 years.
Last edited by Fun71; January 18th, 2020 at 09:43 PM.
Yeah, I understand. We took the Nova out for a ride in the country over some FM roads we hadn't been on in awhile. I was surprised to see how much grass turned into concrete. And it is right under my nose. Not 10 miles from the house. The DFW area is like you're experiencing in Phoenix. We were still growing during the Great Recession and home values never took a dip.
My youngest daughter bought a house (on her own) 2.5 years ago. It has increased 20%. She did buy it under market but...still.
I have a nephew that lives in Chandler. It used to be "out of town" Now I reckon it is just another suburb.
Last edited by KW5413; February 6th, 2020 at 10:05 AM.
Engine masters dynod in season 2 a small block Chevy 350 hp with no fan , lost almost 15 hp with clutch fan and almost 30 with flex fan and standard Mech fan. Those are BIG numbers for just a fan . Like adding headers...
GM designed these cars with Mech clutch fans back THEN .... but TODAY they make all their perf engines with ELECTRIC FANS for a reason.... they’re better. More flow ,better control ,good reliability , more space..... the old ones worked . If you get a Mech fan get a clutched design properly set up for your engine and soiled it all correctly , shroud it correctly on the correct size radiator . If you want an original look to it , mech fan. Otherwise a good electrical setup is a good choice as well.
but TODAY they make all their perf engines with ELECTRIC FANS for a reason.... they’re better.
Today they use electric fans because they can computer control them based on a temp sensor to keep engine temps at the optimum point for emissions and economy. Also, it's pretty difficult to use a mechanical fan on a FWD car with a transverse engine. RWD trucks still use mechanical clutch fans.
Joe .... agreed ..... That precision control is also for performance and reliability. Most modern half tons like my Silverado with 6.2L 420 hp v8 are electrics ( and Vettes , Camaros Mustangs and Challengers ) . On our older cars it’s easy to set up a temp and a/c and manual controls for the electrics with proper wiring . Care must be taken to get the right fuse and relay setup however . I do like the simplicity of the standard setup with cars that are less concerned with ultimate power needs .....
We have a pair of 70 Cutlassesses, each using a different fan setup, I have owned several Cutlass, 442 & GM performance cars, again with a variety of fans.
Kid’s red car has AC clutch fan that works every time with no drama.
The roar of a fully coupled clutch fan always drove me nuts, IMO sounding like a garbage truck in low gear but they always did their job. I will say that I frequently felt like the engine dragged, similar to when a GM A6 compressor was running, this of course measured by my butt dynamometer. I could feel the wash of air when stopped or get out of car with it running. Non clutch fans never seemed as noisy but I don’t think they had as many blades and I never paid attention. Had a crappy flex fan on a 70 SS and that engine always ran hot but I don’t know that it was all on the fan.
I converted the blue car to electric fans and like them better. They are quiet, offer more consistent coolant temp, opened up space between radiator & engine accessories but most importantly seems to move as much or more air than a clutch fan according to my butt anemometer. Little or no temp creep stopped or moving slow on hot days (85+ around here for most folks, 70+ by my butt thermometer!) with the same 4 row traditional radiator. I have a double pole switch under the dash that allows fan to work through the controller, can turn them off or run the system through a mechanical timer which allows me to run fans for a set time with car off, nice thing on a hot track day.
FWIW fan assy is for a V8 or turbo T-Bird (memory fail) & is very similar to the Windstar assy, you install it upside down so the long motor ends up on right side which gets it away from power steering pulley. It fits just about perfectly on the radiator needing only a nip for draincock clearance. I use a Flexalite variable speed controller with a coolant temp sensor in front of intake manifold. Coolant temp is consistent with whatever the fan setting is, confirmed by my butt thermometer.
Mechanical fans were and are cheap & dependable but have largely been replaced by more complex, expensive and potentially more vulnerable electric fans that mostly offer coolant temp consistency for emissions & maybe the allowed “run on” helps with aluminum engine components but this is all my own observation, not a reliable butt infomometer or Factomometer.
** EDIT **
i was just reading a Mecum email feature about the winningest L88 Vette (67 model year, undoubtedly my ultimate dream car) still with original engine and what do my eyes behold? That good old dependable clutch fan! I guess I could live with it if I had an L88
Last edited by bccan; August 18th, 2021 at 04:15 PM.
here is a screen shot from rock auto for a set of brand new 2000 windstar fans. You would need to come up with a controller. I have heard that the shroud on these fits the A body radiators really well. I have been considering these on my cutlass When the time comes.
Last edited by gs72; April 15th, 2020 at 06:41 PM.
An aftermarket wiring kit makes it easy to install an electric fan. I used the Jegs 10560 kit and added a DPDT switch and another relay to control 2 speeds/2fans. I also added 2 50 amp fuses.
After GM spends many $$ on research to find the best cooling systems and you guys think an electric fan is better? Where is your research and actual thermodynamic proof?
GM put electric fans on my 95 impala s.s. When I was looking for a electric set up for my diesel rigs I hit the junk yard and was able to find the GM set up. Two speed fans, easy to wire to relays.
January 13th, 2020, 08:01 AM
