3 speed manual
October 15th, 2019, 01:08 PM
#1
One tire fire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Grain Valley, Mo.
Posts: 18
3 speed manual
Hi everyone, I'm new here so hopefully I'm doing things correctly. My wife and I recently purchased a 1969 Olds 442. We purchased it from the original owner and it is a numbers matching car. I thought it was a little odd that the transmission was a 3 speed that I was not very familiar with. After plenty of research I am now very familiar with the "Dearborn" (Ford 3.03 top loader). I have had the transmission out of the car for an input shaft bearing replacement an was able to verify the VIN stamped on the tail housing. I have heard mixed reviews on the number of these cars produced with this transmission (no A/C). As far as performance, I don't really want to get into the ups and downs of this transmission but I can tell you for sure that this car runs like a bat out of hell and this tranny is bulletproof. Does anyone know the true production numbers of this configuration and if so where to find the documentation to back it up? There are pictures of the car and the transmission in my album. Thank you in advance.
October 15th, 2019, 03:56 PM
#6
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,361
The Dearborn (don't call it a Ford) toploader three speed was the base transmission in the 442 from mid-1965 through the 1969 model year. This was the HD three speed also offered in other Oldsmobiles and Buick and Pontiacs. The trans is a Ford toploader three speed except that it uses a GM spline input shaft. The gearing is actually pretty well suited for the BBO and these cars.
October 15th, 2019, 04:12 PM
#7
Phantom Phixer
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 4,679
And the big reason for the "Dearborn " three speed was insurance .
Insurance companies discovered that "youthful" (under 25 ) drivers with four speed equipped cars were involved in disproportionate number of accidents .
Insurance on a 400 CI car with a 4 speed , for an under 25 driver was often more than the car payment by 1969 .
Ask me how I know , I was there .
This also contributed to the popularity of 350 CI cars . Such as the " Ramrod " and the W-31 .
Insurance was cheaper for them too .
Insurance companies discovered that "youthful" (under 25 ) drivers with four speed equipped cars were involved in disproportionate number of accidents .
Insurance on a 400 CI car with a 4 speed , for an under 25 driver was often more than the car payment by 1969 .
Ask me how I know , I was there .
This also contributed to the popularity of 350 CI cars . Such as the " Ramrod " and the W-31 .
Insurance was cheaper for them too .
October 15th, 2019, 06:54 PM
#8
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,361
And the big reason for the "Dearborn " three speed was insurance .
Insurance companies discovered that "youthful" (under 25 ) drivers with four speed equipped cars were involved in disproportionate number of accidents .
Insurance on a 400 CI car with a 4 speed , for an under 25 driver was often more than the car payment by 1969 .
Ask me how I know , I was there .
This also contributed to the popularity of 350 CI cars . Such as the " Ramrod " and the W-31 .
Insurance was cheaper for them too .
Insurance companies discovered that "youthful" (under 25 ) drivers with four speed equipped cars were involved in disproportionate number of accidents .
Insurance on a 400 CI car with a 4 speed , for an under 25 driver was often more than the car payment by 1969 .
Ask me how I know , I was there .
This also contributed to the popularity of 350 CI cars . Such as the " Ramrod " and the W-31 .
Insurance was cheaper for them too .
October 15th, 2019, 07:14 PM
#9
Running On Empty
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Earth
Posts: 18,129
I'm right there w/ you. The purchase price of my used (17K miles) 1967 442 in 1969 was $1,695. My insurance (I was 16 yo) per year cost me as much as the entire car I believe!
October 15th, 2019, 09:20 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,204
October 16th, 2019, 06:17 AM
#12
One tire fire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Grain Valley, Mo.
Posts: 18
Thanks everyone for the information. The 3 speed is definitely staying in the car. It's in excellent shape and I love the power this car has. droldsmorland, here are a few pics.
October 16th, 2019, 01:32 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Imlay City, Michigan
Posts: 381
You are correct about the insurance company pricing, but the reality is that the three speed manual (in column shifted form) was the base transmission in the F-85/Cutlass line from 1961 through the 1980 model year. The three speed floor shifted MT was base equipment in 1981. The three speed manual column shift was even base equipment in the Eighty Eight line through the 1971 model year.
The 3 speeds on the column weren't Dearborn units, more like early Chevy units no synchro's in first gear and very light but, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile used the Dearborn unit on their performance cars. Believe Chevy used a heavy duty unit made by GM after 67, not sure on earlier models.
Nice 69
Regards,
October 16th, 2019, 03:33 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,622
The Dearborn (don't call it a Ford) toploader three speed was the base transmission in the 442 from mid-1965 through the 1969 model year. This was the HD three speed also offered in other Oldsmobiles and Buick and Pontiacs. The trans is a Ford toploader three speed except that it uses a GM spline input shaft. The gearing is actually pretty well suited for the BBO and these cars.
October 16th, 2019, 03:45 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,622
The 3 speeds on the column weren't Dearborn units, more like early Chevy units no synchro's in first gear and very light but, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile used the Dearborn unit on their performance cars. Believe Chevy used a heavy duty unit made by GM after 67, not sure on earlier models.
Nice 69
Regards,
Nice 69
Regards,
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; October 16th, 2019 at 06:58 PM.
October 16th, 2019, 06:27 PM
#16
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,361
The 3 speeds on the column weren't Dearborn units, more like early Chevy units no synchro's in first gear and very light but, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile used the Dearborn unit on their performance cars. Believe Chevy used a heavy duty unit made by GM after 67, not sure on earlier models.
Nice 69
Regards,
Nice 69
Regards,
October 17th, 2019, 04:22 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Imlay City, Michigan
Posts: 381
I never said that the column shifted 3 spd was a Dearborn unit. I was addressing the apparent surprise about thee speed manual transmissions and pointing out that the 3 speed manual trans was the base trans in the Cutlass line for decades. The Dearborn was the HD three speed in the A-body cars through the 1969 model year; the Muncie 3 spd replaced it in the 1970 model yeaer. And FYI, the three speed Dearborn with COLUMN shifter was the base trans in the Eighty Eight line through the 1971 model year.
Hi again,
Sorry I missed the 88 line, thought you were referring to A-bodies, and have never seen a 3 speed column shifted 442 or other hi performance car. All the V6 and smaller V8s got the light duty 3 speed trans I was referring to similar to one found in a 55 Chevy.
I imagine fullsize required the heavier duty trans due to weight and most consumers wanted a synchronized transmission. I know early Buicks used a T89 on the early 60's.
3 speeds are rare to see nowadays, again cool 69.
Regards,
December 25th, 2019, 12:46 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lincoln Univ, PA
Posts: 552
Love it ! Does it have a console ? If so that 3 speed plate (w/o any holes drilled for a 4 spd plate) is rare too !
I have one of the 87 convertibles with a 3 speed and am not changing it too
I have one of the 87 convertibles with a 3 speed and am not changing it too
December 25th, 2019, 07:05 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,622
The 3 speed floor shift hole is in a different location than the 4 speed. In 66/67 the cowl tag code for the speed floor hole was 2B and the 4 speed hole was 2L. I assume it's the same for 68/69.
February 4th, 2020, 06:36 AM
#26
HD 3 speed in my 69 442 vert.
I am a little late to the party but I thought I would add my 2 cents worth. This is a picture of the HD 3 speed in my 69 442 convertible. It has the vin number stamped in the side.
February 4th, 2020, 07:22 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,622
The 3 speed Phord unit uses a different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. If you notice,there's 2 different bolt patterns on the bellhousing.. Also,the trans is somewhat rotated because of this.
March 21st, 2021, 06:17 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 3
3 Speed to 4 speed conversion
Thanks
March 21st, 2021, 07:05 PM
#29
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,299
The true reason for using the Ford-built transmission was: GM didn't have a passenger car 3-speed that would live behind a big-inch BOP engine or in a heavy full-size BOP car for very long. No more BOP cars than were ordered as 3-speeds it made more economic sense to buy the Ford unit (which would live behind anything) than to engineer and build one in-house.
Your car, your money and time, but a car is never as interesting or valuable as it is the way it was built. Just save the stuff you remove. Better yet find a car that's a factory built four speed.
Your car, your money and time, but a car is never as interesting or valuable as it is the way it was built. Just save the stuff you remove. Better yet find a car that's a factory built four speed.
March 21st, 2021, 07:11 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 4,622
The shifter hole is a little different between 3 & 4 speed. The cowl tag will have a 2L for the 4 speed and 2B for the 3 speed. I think it will work but is a little tight against one side.
March 22nd, 2021, 04:52 PM
#31
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Land of Taxes
Posts: 4,860
Auto to manual conversion typically falls in the 2500-5K range labor not included nor machining the crank and associated engine disassembly(MAWs).
You have most of what's needed, pedals, crank pilot hole, bell crank, driveshaft, bell, flywheel, other misc etc.... Cheaper than that is the answer. Thou a fresh Muncie and Hurst shifter can run all of that if you want period correct.
You have most of what's needed, pedals, crank pilot hole, bell crank, driveshaft, bell, flywheel, other misc etc.... Cheaper than that is the answer. Thou a fresh Muncie and Hurst shifter can run all of that if you want period correct.
March 23rd, 2021, 03:30 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 3
Thank you for your response.
Auto to manual conversion typically falls in the 2500-5K range labor not included nor machining the crank and associated engine disassembly(MAWs).
You have most of what's needed, pedals, crank pilot hole, bell crank, driveshaft, bell, flywheel, other misc etc.... Cheaper than that is the answer. Thou a fresh Muncie and Hurst shifter can run all of that if you want period correct.
You have most of what's needed, pedals, crank pilot hole, bell crank, driveshaft, bell, flywheel, other misc etc.... Cheaper than that is the answer. Thou a fresh Muncie and Hurst shifter can run all of that if you want period correct.
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