What is wrong with young people!
March 10th, 2015, 05:53 PM
#81
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brazil Indiana
Posts: 11,503
Eric, let me give you a little tip.... If you have no policy for reprimanding an employee for excessive tardiness, multiple absences, and the like....my friend you will be liable if this employee is fired. The term "negligent retention" comes into effect. The employee would win a suit and probably be rewarded unemployment. There must be a company policy in this area and it must be enforced. Sad but true; been there and done it. I think the work ethic of a high percentage of the next generation is different from our generation. There are certainly some young entrepreneurs out there, but they seem to be few and far in between.
I'd rather not participate in the "opinion" segment of this thread, but what I did voice is true in Maryland Labor Laws. Each state has different laws pertaining to hiring, termination of employment, unemployment compensation, etc. I'd talk with your HR manager before you make a rash decision that could back to haunt you.
I'd rather not participate in the "opinion" segment of this thread, but what I did voice is true in Maryland Labor Laws. Each state has different laws pertaining to hiring, termination of employment, unemployment compensation, etc. I'd talk with your HR manager before you make a rash decision that could back to haunt you.
At the beginning of this year we started an attendance policy. I made everyone sign it so they can not tell me they didn't know about it. After they use all there paid time they can mis a total of 10 more days then they will be fired. It is going to be tough if i have to fire someone but we will just have to get through it.
In Indiana you don't have to have a reason to fire anyone, It is an "at will employment" state.
It takes something very extreme in Indiana to be able to sue your employer or former employer. Even if you have a proper case it is actually hard to find a lawyer in Indiana that will take a case against an employer.
March 11th, 2015, 12:39 AM
#82
NOVICE car nut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 3,123
This younger generation is something else. I sure hope it is not this way all across the country. I have 13 guys under me at work and most are between 20 and 31. I have one guy that has called in 11 times this year, another has called in 10 times, and another 7 times.
I don't think I could get away with calling in once a week where I work . Lets just say my job is quite busy , and I would probably lose my job if I tried that . I actually have to plan some vacations because my vacation time is about maxed out , that's how important my job is and how busy I always seem to be . The area I work in is like the plague , no one wants to work there , but it has to be done so I do it . When it comes down to it , I call in sick about twice a year .
March 11th, 2015, 03:26 AM
#83
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: maryland
Posts: 1,393
Maryland is also an "at-will" employment state, meaning (and I doubt any employees actually know) that any employee can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason. Other than the four months I was out due to major back surgery, I've not missed one day, or been late not even once.....in 34 years.
We also have a pre-employment screening for drugs, driver's record, and a background check for any unlawful activities. You'd be surprised how many applicants don't pass one or more of the tests. We also have a policy where a supervisor or department manager can request a "spot check urine sample" if an employee is thought to be under the influence. HR is now a complete department in many companies and corporations, and many larger businesses have a labor attorney on some type of retainer.
My first full time job was right out of high school, working for an ex-drill instructor from the Marines. The company was a four-man crew building custom homes. In the three years I worked there, we never missed a day due to weather, and worked outside in wet or frigid conditions if that was needed to be done for that day. I learned a lot about life and that job fostered my work ethic.....if you didn't work, you didn't get paid....plain and simple.
We also have a pre-employment screening for drugs, driver's record, and a background check for any unlawful activities. You'd be surprised how many applicants don't pass one or more of the tests. We also have a policy where a supervisor or department manager can request a "spot check urine sample" if an employee is thought to be under the influence. HR is now a complete department in many companies and corporations, and many larger businesses have a labor attorney on some type of retainer.
My first full time job was right out of high school, working for an ex-drill instructor from the Marines. The company was a four-man crew building custom homes. In the three years I worked there, we never missed a day due to weather, and worked outside in wet or frigid conditions if that was needed to be done for that day. I learned a lot about life and that job fostered my work ethic.....if you didn't work, you didn't get paid....plain and simple.
Last edited by Dave Siltman; March 11th, 2015 at 03:40 AM.
March 11th, 2015, 08:15 AM
#85
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,305
However, I work some place where I can work on stuff, so I need my jeans.
I'd be more supportive of the UAW if I were eligible to join, but, engineers are the lowest rank of The Man, even though we get f^&*ed worse than the line workers, so we are thought to be part of the management problem. The sad thing is, the only part of the management problem that is part of me is what they leave behind after doing us from behind.
March 11th, 2015, 09:05 AM
#86
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Posts: 1,815
Oddly enough ... my position was forcibly unionized. I lost pay, lost bonuses, and lost negotiating power. My raises are .25$ an hour every 6 months. I figure in another 5 years I should zoom right back up to where I was before the union ... minus the bonuses naturally. Sure, they can't fire me .. but they don't fire people that do a good job in the first place, do they?
Unions had their place before labour laws. Now, in my opinion, they're just **** sucking mafia, nothing more.
Last edited by Professur; March 11th, 2015 at 02:14 PM. Reason: *stated an opinion as a fact*
March 11th, 2015, 09:37 AM
#87
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Well, I think MI just recently changed it so you can opt not to pay/ join your union.
Seems to me like history shows that w/o unions, The Man just screws the living crap out of the workers. Slavery being the best example. Early Industrial Age the next best example- open drive belts and all that.
Whereas, WITH the union, the worker gets hosed more by the mafia union bosses and only partly by The Man.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".
Seems to me like history shows that w/o unions, The Man just screws the living crap out of the workers. Slavery being the best example. Early Industrial Age the next best example- open drive belts and all that.
Whereas, WITH the union, the worker gets hosed more by the mafia union bosses and only partly by The Man.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".
Last edited by Octania; March 11th, 2015 at 09:39 AM.
March 11th, 2015, 11:10 AM
#88
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
Well, I think MI just recently changed it so you can opt not to pay/ join your union.
Seems to me like history shows that w/o unions, The Man just screws the living crap out of the workers. Slavery being the best example. Early Industrial Age the next best example- open drive belts and all that.
Whereas, WITH the union, the worker gets hosed more by the mafia union bosses and only partly by The Man.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".
Seems to me like history shows that w/o unions, The Man just screws the living crap out of the workers. Slavery being the best example. Early Industrial Age the next best example- open drive belts and all that.
Whereas, WITH the union, the worker gets hosed more by the mafia union bosses and only partly by The Man.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".
March 11th, 2015, 12:12 PM
#89
Old School Olds
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marble Falls TX
Posts: 8,947
Whatta ya gonna do?
[QUOTE=Octania.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".[/QUOTE]
Keep it small and do it in the service arena. But that's just me.
I was ready to 'light the fuse' as they say, right before 911. I lost
4 employees that were good workers in 3 years. This last year things are finally
starting to pick up more so in my field. There are 3 of us working now. I don't do the labor now as much as I did before, Still selling, scheduling, working...
Figuring out retirement is the biggie anyway, well it is for me at my age.
Carry on boys. This is a good thread, imho.
You can always start your own business, right, and BE "The Man".[/QUOTE]
Keep it small and do it in the service arena. But that's just me.
I was ready to 'light the fuse' as they say, right before 911. I lost
4 employees that were good workers in 3 years. This last year things are finally
starting to pick up more so in my field. There are 3 of us working now. I don't do the labor now as much as I did before, Still selling, scheduling, working...
Figuring out retirement is the biggie anyway, well it is for me at my age.
Carry on boys. This is a good thread, imho.
Last edited by tru-blue 442; March 11th, 2015 at 12:17 PM.
March 11th, 2015, 01:26 PM
#92
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: washington mo
Posts: 332
Oddly enough ... my position was forcibly unionized. I lost pay, lost bonuses, and lost negotiating power. My raises are .25$ an hour every 6 months. I figure in another 5 years I should zoom right back up to where I was before the union ... minus the bonuses naturally. Sure, they can't fire me .. but they don't fire people that do a good job in the first place, do they?
Unions had their place before labour laws. Now, they're just **** sucking mafia, nothing more.
Unions had their place before labour laws. Now, they're just **** sucking mafia, nothing more.
March 11th, 2015, 01:40 PM
#93
There's nothing "wrong" with young people. The behaviors people notice here are the result of the environment they have been raised in and exposed to. IMHO factors include:
1) A completely unrealistic expectation of what the employment rate should be. To expect national unemployment to be below 7% and expect everyone who is working to be a gem is naïve.
2) Lack of real observed crisis/want/hardship. Wars fought by volunteer armies, social safety nets (most needed I believe), and overall a better standing of living (yes it is true - in many everyday living circumstances, the "old days" sucked) have made kids potentially lessen their sense of urgency about anything related to the economy which in turn effects their work ethic.
3) Kids for a while now have seen the continued glamorization of "toughness" and behavioral coarseness that has benefitted the media moguls of OUR generation (I'm 52) WE haven't done anything about it, and our kids have internalized these attitudes as being desirable.
Like with employers, what you allow you teach. Today's youth just didn't spring up in a vacuum - they have been molded by us and our society. Who created (and has profited) from the world of instant internet gratification, Xboxes, Iphones, Rambo, The Sex Pistols, MMA, etc???
I also happen to think that in a lot of ways, kids today are much better human beings. Smarter, less xenophobic, more tolerant than the supposed good people we all are. My daughter is a Sophomore at University of Oklahoma. Years ago, those Sig Ep's would not have been touched for their despicable behavior. Last night, her and MANY other kids rallied around the campus protesting the racist behavior and supporting Dr. Boren in his actions.
Oh, and by the way, didn't our parents say we were not going to amount to anything? And didn't our grandparents say the same thing about our parents? The end of civilization has been proclaimed by the outgoing generation since time began. Yes, hiring is hard now, but it cant be totally be blamed on the kids - nothing is ever that easy.
1) A completely unrealistic expectation of what the employment rate should be. To expect national unemployment to be below 7% and expect everyone who is working to be a gem is naïve.
2) Lack of real observed crisis/want/hardship. Wars fought by volunteer armies, social safety nets (most needed I believe), and overall a better standing of living (yes it is true - in many everyday living circumstances, the "old days" sucked) have made kids potentially lessen their sense of urgency about anything related to the economy which in turn effects their work ethic.
3) Kids for a while now have seen the continued glamorization of "toughness" and behavioral coarseness that has benefitted the media moguls of OUR generation (I'm 52) WE haven't done anything about it, and our kids have internalized these attitudes as being desirable.
Like with employers, what you allow you teach. Today's youth just didn't spring up in a vacuum - they have been molded by us and our society. Who created (and has profited) from the world of instant internet gratification, Xboxes, Iphones, Rambo, The Sex Pistols, MMA, etc???
I also happen to think that in a lot of ways, kids today are much better human beings. Smarter, less xenophobic, more tolerant than the supposed good people we all are. My daughter is a Sophomore at University of Oklahoma. Years ago, those Sig Ep's would not have been touched for their despicable behavior. Last night, her and MANY other kids rallied around the campus protesting the racist behavior and supporting Dr. Boren in his actions.
Oh, and by the way, didn't our parents say we were not going to amount to anything? And didn't our grandparents say the same thing about our parents? The end of civilization has been proclaimed by the outgoing generation since time began. Yes, hiring is hard now, but it cant be totally be blamed on the kids - nothing is ever that easy.
March 11th, 2015, 02:44 PM
#94
There's nothing "wrong" with young people. The behaviors people notice here are the result of the environment they have been raised in and exposed to. IMHO factors include:
1) A completely unrealistic expectation of what the employment rate should be. To expect national unemployment to be below 7% and expect everyone who is working to be a gem is naïve.
2) Lack of real observed crisis/want/hardship. Wars fought by volunteer armies, social safety nets (most needed I believe), and overall a better standing of living (yes it is true - in many everyday living circumstances, the "old days" sucked) have made kids potentially lessen their sense of urgency about anything related to the economy which in turn effects their work ethic.
3) Kids for a while now have seen the continued glamorization of "toughness" and behavioral coarseness that has benefitted the media moguls of OUR generation (I'm 52) WE haven't done anything about it, and our kids have internalized these attitudes as being desirable.
Like with employers, what you allow you teach. Today's youth just didn't spring up in a vacuum - they have been molded by us and our society. Who created (and has profited) from the world of instant internet gratification, Xboxes, Iphones, Rambo, The Sex Pistols, MMA, etc???
I also happen to think that in a lot of ways, kids today are much better human beings. Smarter, less xenophobic, more tolerant than the supposed good people we all are. My daughter is a Sophomore at University of Oklahoma. Years ago, those Sig Ep's would not have been touched for their despicable behavior. Last night, her and MANY other kids rallied around the campus protesting the racist behavior and supporting Dr. Boren in his actions.
Oh, and by the way, didn't our parents say we were not going to amount to anything? And didn't our grandparents say the same thing about our parents? The end of civilization has been proclaimed by the outgoing generation since time began. Yes, hiring is hard now, but it cant be totally be blamed on the kids - nothing is ever that easy.
1) A completely unrealistic expectation of what the employment rate should be. To expect national unemployment to be below 7% and expect everyone who is working to be a gem is naïve.
2) Lack of real observed crisis/want/hardship. Wars fought by volunteer armies, social safety nets (most needed I believe), and overall a better standing of living (yes it is true - in many everyday living circumstances, the "old days" sucked) have made kids potentially lessen their sense of urgency about anything related to the economy which in turn effects their work ethic.
3) Kids for a while now have seen the continued glamorization of "toughness" and behavioral coarseness that has benefitted the media moguls of OUR generation (I'm 52) WE haven't done anything about it, and our kids have internalized these attitudes as being desirable.
Like with employers, what you allow you teach. Today's youth just didn't spring up in a vacuum - they have been molded by us and our society. Who created (and has profited) from the world of instant internet gratification, Xboxes, Iphones, Rambo, The Sex Pistols, MMA, etc???
I also happen to think that in a lot of ways, kids today are much better human beings. Smarter, less xenophobic, more tolerant than the supposed good people we all are. My daughter is a Sophomore at University of Oklahoma. Years ago, those Sig Ep's would not have been touched for their despicable behavior. Last night, her and MANY other kids rallied around the campus protesting the racist behavior and supporting Dr. Boren in his actions.
Oh, and by the way, didn't our parents say we were not going to amount to anything? And didn't our grandparents say the same thing about our parents? The end of civilization has been proclaimed by the outgoing generation since time began. Yes, hiring is hard now, but it cant be totally be blamed on the kids - nothing is ever that easy.
March 13th, 2015, 11:58 PM
#95
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Washington AC
Posts: 66
I totally agree....
Not just hat in hand, also what can I do to make you feel like it wont happen again and by the way I fired the guy.
Kids are so stinking selfish these days, they don't look at the big picture. They never learned that life isn't about who can do what for them.... its all about what they can do for others.
March 14th, 2015, 12:31 AM
#96
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,591
We young people were largely raised by children of the WWII generation. The WWII generation were traditionalists, which means that their children became soft to rebel. When these parents got their own children (us young people), we were pampered, because the parents didn't want to be anything like their own parents.
So, in short, no discipline.
So, in short, no discipline.
March 14th, 2015, 07:15 AM
#97
We young people were largely raised by children of the WWII generation. The WWII generation were traditionalists, which means that their children became soft to rebel. When these parents got their own children (us young people), we were pampered, because the parents didn't want to be anything like their own parents.
So, in short, no discipline.
So, in short, no discipline.
March 14th, 2015, 07:38 AM
#98
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,591
March 14th, 2015, 08:14 AM
#99
Senior Moment Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,870
"I", am the the man. I get hated on quite a bit. i had a bum get in my face the other day because of what I look like. He didn't touch me, because then it's go time. I've been self employed for 27 years. Some good, some bad. I don't regret not working for a paycheck.
As far as the kids go. My wife and I have raised 3 respectful, moral, hard working kids. They are nearly on their own now. It's how you raise them IMO. A two parent family helps.
As far as the kids go. My wife and I have raised 3 respectful, moral, hard working kids. They are nearly on their own now. It's how you raise them IMO. A two parent family helps.
March 14th, 2015, 09:17 AM
#101
"I", am the the man. I get hated on quite a bit. i had a bum get in my face the other day because of what I look like. He didn't touch me, because then it's go time. I've been self employed for 27 years. Some good, some bad. I don't regret not working for a paycheck.
As far as the kids go. My wife and I have raised 3 respectful, moral, hard working kids. They are nearly on their own now. It's how you raise them IMO. A two parent family helps.
As far as the kids go. My wife and I have raised 3 respectful, moral, hard working kids. They are nearly on their own now. It's how you raise them IMO. A two parent family helps.
But don't get me wrong. Some of today's youth just blow me away with their abilities. With proper training and guidance many can, and will, achieve great things.
March 14th, 2015, 09:50 AM
#102
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
During high school my favorite classes where Math, wood shop metal shop and auto shop. I come from a blue color background and started working with my dad during the summers and on weekends as a helper. My dad was a union journeyman electrician. after high school I started as a first year electrical apprentice. I had the an excellent education in the classroom and in the field by teachers who where also journeyman electrician and became a Journeyman. foreman, superintendent, Estimator, and designer. Currently I am the VP of construction for a electrical contracting firm.
What I see missing now in all occupations is the same opportunities I had. All of the high schools in our area have dropped most if not all of the shop programs and have left no starting point for a career path other then technology or collage based education. This leaves a lot of people with missed opportunity.
The average age of an electrician in the northwest is 45+ years. We have a shortage of apprentices and qualified journeyman and it is getting worse. This for a trade where the Journeyman average 45.00 per hour plus benefits union or non-union.
I have worked in and supported apprenticeship for over 40 years and have come to believe that our education system of today is the major cause why our young have no direction when they leave high school.
Most white collar kids I have met when promoting trade apprenticeship did not even know it was available because there parents did talk about alternate education. In the trades it called "the other 4 year education"
Talk to the young. explain rather then criticize. Help rather then give up on them. After all they are your future
End of ramble
What I see missing now in all occupations is the same opportunities I had. All of the high schools in our area have dropped most if not all of the shop programs and have left no starting point for a career path other then technology or collage based education. This leaves a lot of people with missed opportunity.
The average age of an electrician in the northwest is 45+ years. We have a shortage of apprentices and qualified journeyman and it is getting worse. This for a trade where the Journeyman average 45.00 per hour plus benefits union or non-union.
I have worked in and supported apprenticeship for over 40 years and have come to believe that our education system of today is the major cause why our young have no direction when they leave high school.
Most white collar kids I have met when promoting trade apprenticeship did not even know it was available because there parents did talk about alternate education. In the trades it called "the other 4 year education"
Talk to the young. explain rather then criticize. Help rather then give up on them. After all they are your future
End of ramble
March 14th, 2015, 11:29 AM
#103
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S Dayton Ohio
Posts: 171
It sounds like upper management is tying your hands a bit. Basically, you are going to have to fire someone. Young people are on the learning curve of life, and easily influenced by their peers. You have to have an employee handbook with clear and concise expectations spelled out, and the consequences for not adhering to policy.
If you allow one to get away with problematic behavior, others will soon follow. It's human nature. Sooner or later you will get the "'so-and-so' gets away with it, why can't I?". It's also not fair to your good reliable employees. The good ones may eventually lose respect for your managerial skills, and the possibility for morale problems can easily develop.
Not directed at you personally, but some fatal managerial mistakes I have seen are trying to be a "friend", rather than the boss, and allowing unacceptable behavior to "snowball".
Naturally, I don't have an actual solution, but I can say if owning or running a business was easy, everyone would do it, lol!
If you allow one to get away with problematic behavior, others will soon follow. It's human nature. Sooner or later you will get the "'so-and-so' gets away with it, why can't I?". It's also not fair to your good reliable employees. The good ones may eventually lose respect for your managerial skills, and the possibility for morale problems can easily develop.
Not directed at you personally, but some fatal managerial mistakes I have seen are trying to be a "friend", rather than the boss, and allowing unacceptable behavior to "snowball".
Naturally, I don't have an actual solution, but I can say if owning or running a business was easy, everyone would do it, lol!
March 14th, 2015, 04:14 PM
#104
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brazil Indiana
Posts: 11,503
I do thank everyone for their comments. I was having a bad day that day among others lately. I had my boss show up Wednesday. I showed him that between all 13 guys there has been 51 days missed this year so far. Most of those days were missed by 3 guys. He had a talk with each of those three guys one on one. He made it clear that he is not happy with there time off and that he let it get out of hand by not letting me act on it and not fully understanding how bad it really was. The very next day one of those guys missed work and did not even call. He is also the source of many other problems. I just can't understand him because he is VERY smart and has GREAT quality when he showes up. He is also making the second highest amount in the shop and that is much more than anywhere else he can go locally. There are people that have worked for our customer for 25 years not making what this kid is making. My boss is getting with the owner and getting his permission to fire him. It is going to be tough loosing his 7 years experience but it is time to move on.
I know it is not just the young people. I did not mean to offend any young people here but I will say that it is mostly with the young generation. I guess that is just part of growing up.
I know it is not just the young people. I did not mean to offend any young people here but I will say that it is mostly with the young generation. I guess that is just part of growing up.
March 17th, 2015, 01:19 AM
#105
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
I thought I would add my thoughts froms the other side of the pond. I am a medium sized business, I employ 103 people, 98 of those women and 82 of those under 25. So I have a lot of experience in dealing with the younger generation. The biggest problem I have is a lack of enthusiasm especially with 18-22 year olds. It seem that this generation has dumbed down, which I blame on successive governments meddling in our school system. In the UK there are a couple of million people unemployed but I am struggling to fill 8 vacancies I have. The people that do come for interviews are either totally uninterested or cant even speak English.
I have run my business for 24 years and only ever had one day off sick which was due to breaking my ankle, but next day I came in on crutches, the amount of sick days by some of my staff is horrendus, but again its usually the younger ones that are the worst.
Its about time that central goverment stopped interfering with our education system and make the younger generation ready to face a life of work, instead of dreaming of becoming the next big reality star or winning the lottery - get real, it aint going to happen.
Rant over!!
I have run my business for 24 years and only ever had one day off sick which was due to breaking my ankle, but next day I came in on crutches, the amount of sick days by some of my staff is horrendus, but again its usually the younger ones that are the worst.
Its about time that central goverment stopped interfering with our education system and make the younger generation ready to face a life of work, instead of dreaming of becoming the next big reality star or winning the lottery - get real, it aint going to happen.
Rant over!!
March 18th, 2015, 12:42 AM
#106
I thought I would add my thoughts froms the other side of the pond. I am a medium sized business, I employ 103 people, 98 of those women and 82 of those under 25. So I have a lot of experience in dealing with the younger generation. The biggest problem I have is a lack of enthusiasm especially with 18-22 year olds. It seem that this generation has dumbed down, which I blame on successive governments meddling in our school system. In the UK there are a couple of million people unemployed but I am struggling to fill 8 vacancies I have. The people that do come for interviews are either totally uninterested or cant even speak English.
I have run my business for 24 years and only ever had one day off sick which was due to breaking my ankle, but next day I came in on crutches, the amount of sick days by some of my staff is horrendus, but again its usually the younger ones that are the worst.
Its about time that central goverment stopped interfering with our education system and make the younger generation ready to face a life of work, instead of dreaming of becoming the next big reality star or winning the lottery - get real, it aint going to happen.
Rant over!!
I have run my business for 24 years and only ever had one day off sick which was due to breaking my ankle, but next day I came in on crutches, the amount of sick days by some of my staff is horrendus, but again its usually the younger ones that are the worst.
Its about time that central goverment stopped interfering with our education system and make the younger generation ready to face a life of work, instead of dreaming of becoming the next big reality star or winning the lottery - get real, it aint going to happen.
Rant over!!
A couple of years ago, I had one of those blinding flashes of the obvious that changed my perception and outlook on the subject, as well as reassessing how I manage my company. I walked into a McDonalds with my wife for lunch. It was off peak, and there was no other customers in line. We walk up to the register, and there were three obvious high school aged kids chatting and doing no work at all. We stood there for about a minute and half before one of the kids finally asked what we wanted. No greeting, no excuse me for the wait. I was about to go off and say something when it hit me - the restaurant manager (a middle aged guy) was standing behind the hamburger prep station the whole time we had been waiting with a clear view of what was going on, and had done nothing about it. Now, who's responsibility is it for this behavior? The 35 year old manager who's making 40K a year or the 17 year olds at minimum wage?
March 18th, 2015, 12:55 AM
#107
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Adelaide south Australia
Posts: 413
Our trainee has so much time off that he has no entitlements left what so ever and has had several days off without pay.
Last week he completed a full fortnight without taking a day off and only late 3 times so I thought I would congratulate him on Friday.
Monday off no call, Tuesday off text message and today hour late.
This is a guy who really does not deserve to work with us and clearly does not want to work with us.
I feel I would be remiss not to help him out.
Last week he completed a full fortnight without taking a day off and only late 3 times so I thought I would congratulate him on Friday.
Monday off no call, Tuesday off text message and today hour late.
This is a guy who really does not deserve to work with us and clearly does not want to work with us.
I feel I would be remiss not to help him out.
March 18th, 2015, 10:10 AM
#108
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
Our trainee has so much time off that he has no entitlements left what so ever and has had several days off without pay.
Last week he completed a full fortnight without taking a day off and only late 3 times so I thought I would congratulate him on Friday.
Monday off no call, Tuesday off text message and today hour late.
This is a guy who really does not deserve to work with us and clearly does not want to work with us.
I feel I would be remiss not to help him out.
Last week he completed a full fortnight without taking a day off and only late 3 times so I thought I would congratulate him on Friday.
Monday off no call, Tuesday off text message and today hour late.
This is a guy who really does not deserve to work with us and clearly does not want to work with us.
I feel I would be remiss not to help him out.
I dont give me staff any entitlement for sick pay until they have worked for me for 3 years and have a good sickness record, thats why I can pay them above average saleries. I also have incentives for my staff whereas at the end of the year I give cash bonuses to the top five staff who have had the least time off.
I had a young girl phone this morning to say she had a stomach ache and wasnt feeling well, so I said go to the chemist get some tablets and I will see you in 2 hours, or dont bother to come back.- she arrived 3 hours later.
March 20th, 2015, 05:54 AM
#109
NOVICE car nut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 3,123
I do thank everyone for their comments. I was having a bad day that day among others lately. I had my boss show up Wednesday. I showed him that between all 13 guys there has been 51 days missed this year so far. Most of those days were missed by 3 guys. He had a talk with each of those three guys one on one. He made it clear that he is not happy with there time off and that he let it get out of hand by not letting me act on it and not fully understanding how bad it really was. The very next day one of those guys missed work and did not even call. He is also the source of many other problems. I just can't understand him because he is VERY smart and has GREAT quality when he showes up. He is also making the second highest amount in the shop and that is much more than anywhere else he can go locally. There are people that have worked for our customer for 25 years not making what this kid is making. My boss is getting with the owner and getting his permission to fire him. It is going to be tough loosing his 7 years experience but it is time to move on.
I know it is not just the young people. I did not mean to offend any young people here but I will say that it is mostly with the young generation. I guess that is just part of growing up.
I know it is not just the young people. I did not mean to offend any young people here but I will say that it is mostly with the young generation. I guess that is just part of growing up.
The guy sounds like the dipstick I work with . Thinks he is better then others , but reality will set in when he can't find ANOTHER job .
March 20th, 2015, 06:02 AM
#110
NOVICE car nut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 3,123
If he is a trainee what does that mean for the future. If he was working for me he would be out the door.
I dont give me staff any entitlement for sick pay until they have worked for me for 3 years and have a good sickness record, thats why I can pay them above average saleries. I also have incentives for my staff whereas at the end of the year I give cash bonuses to the top five staff who have had the least time off.
I had a young girl phone this morning to say she had a stomach ache and wasnt feeling well, so I said go to the chemist get some tablets and I will see you in 2 hours, or dont bother to come back.- she arrived 3 hours later.
I dont give me staff any entitlement for sick pay until they have worked for me for 3 years and have a good sickness record, thats why I can pay them above average saleries. I also have incentives for my staff whereas at the end of the year I give cash bonuses to the top five staff who have had the least time off.
I had a young girl phone this morning to say she had a stomach ache and wasnt feeling well, so I said go to the chemist get some tablets and I will see you in 2 hours, or dont bother to come back.- she arrived 3 hours later.
March 20th, 2015, 06:35 AM
#111
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
In my years of having my business one of the best things I did was to employ the best HR that money can find. I have had six employees take me to the industrial tribunal which is where employment issues are handled and I am yet to lose one. A lot of it depends on the type of contract the employee is first given. Get that right and everybody knows where they stand and it protects your business and also it protects the staff that want to work hard for you.
March 20th, 2015, 08:31 AM
#112
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,305
HR is so despicable. "Tell me your favorite color and why." If you tell a joke to your friend and some bitch hears it and is offended, then you get in trouble, even though you weren't talking to her anyway and her very presence and that she sucks and causes more work for you offends you.
March 20th, 2015, 10:31 AM
#113
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
HR is so despicable. "Tell me your favorite color and why." If you tell a joke to your friend and some bitch hears it and is offended, then you get in trouble, even though you weren't talking to her anyway and her very presence and that she sucks and causes more work for you offends you.
Your workplace obviously doesn't have the quality of HR that mine has.
Favourite colour, whats that got to do with HR ? - I don't get it.
March 20th, 2015, 10:37 AM
#114
Runner
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ballwin, MO
Posts: 1,714
I still fit in that "younger" crowd. I have other friends with degrees, others without. Some that are very successful, some that are not. I work with people much older, and still some occasionally younger co-workers. Regardless age / education, its like many have said before, those with the good attitude and take pride in their work can (and usually do) succeed. Anything is trainable, but attitudes can't be changed. There are bad apples everywhere.
Good luck with your situation, sounds like you are getting screwed over by not being able to fire them. If that job pays better and builds careers then 90% of other non-degree requiring jobs there should be a line out the door to fill a position.
Good luck with your situation, sounds like you are getting screwed over by not being able to fire them. If that job pays better and builds careers then 90% of other non-degree requiring jobs there should be a line out the door to fill a position.
March 22nd, 2015, 12:07 PM
#115
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,305
So all the "office people" are some sort of demographic quota filler, and they are stupid as a result. Not because anyone is stupid because of their gender, or race, or preference, but if you hire a gay, black woman because she's gay, black, and a woman, you might not care how intelligent she is as much as you care about the other factors.
HR college majors are horrible. You end up with some 24 year old girl interviewing people with 15 years of experience when she doesn't know crap about anything relevant to the field. "Your favorite color and why" is a typical HR question, along with "Tell me about a time when you took leadership of a situation" and "Your co-worker is not keeping up, and is being harassed by your fellow co-workers, what do you do in this situation?" instead of something useful like "The Chassis 1 engine lifter gets behind cycle 50% more on Friday mornings right before lunch. How would you deal with this problem?"
HR exists to keep your company from getting sued, and for "dealing with" employees. So, you can be all like "wow" at me if you want, but disliking and mistrusting a group who is only there to destroy me if I get out of line is simply common sense.
March 22nd, 2015, 01:31 PM
#116
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
My apologies Koda. I didn't realise that kind of thing even existed. I can only talk about the 24 or so years of experience that I have of being an employer in the UK. All I was saying is how I run my company and the way my HR team work is a world away from what you are saying.
Perhaps because I have always resisted being corporate and I know exactly how I want my company to be run that's why my HR are liked and respected.
We don't go for quotas with regards to race, sex or religion. I hire the staff that will benefit my company. For example. I always have someone do a two day work trial and then I take feedback from the other workers to make sure they will fit in.
So, no disrespect was meant, I didn't understand and still don't the way an HR dept works over stateside.
Perhaps because I have always resisted being corporate and I know exactly how I want my company to be run that's why my HR are liked and respected.
We don't go for quotas with regards to race, sex or religion. I hire the staff that will benefit my company. For example. I always have someone do a two day work trial and then I take feedback from the other workers to make sure they will fit in.
So, no disrespect was meant, I didn't understand and still don't the way an HR dept works over stateside.
March 22nd, 2015, 01:35 PM
#117
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,305
No offense taken, sir, you sound like a good man. I believe you are a company who cares about their people. Big companies are like governments; the people who make the choices are insulated from the results, so no one cares.
March 24th, 2015, 01:17 AM
#119
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: London
Posts: 493
Im still really interested with the fact that quota's have to be filled at larger companies. Surely it should ideally be a reflection on the demographics of the area that the company is situated.
I am in the East End of London which is a huge mixing pot of races and religions and my workforce reflects that, not on purpose but thats just the way it panned out. Since joining this thread I decided to have a check up on my place and this is what I have: My staff are from 18 different countries and speak 31 other languages 40% are married, 58% are single and 2% are 'other'
The MD (My wife) is Spanish, Im English and the site manager is English. The next 4 top position are filled by British Asians all the way down to my Polish and Ecuadorian cleaners.
Other languages are banned from being spoken when there is an english only speaker in the room.
So, as you can see quite a different range of cultures and experiences in one place, but great for getting tips on where to go on vacation.
Incidently, when my HR applied for her job she was informed that part of her job was to get qualified in the role of my business so she could understand the roles played by all of the staff, which she duly did.
I am in the East End of London which is a huge mixing pot of races and religions and my workforce reflects that, not on purpose but thats just the way it panned out. Since joining this thread I decided to have a check up on my place and this is what I have: My staff are from 18 different countries and speak 31 other languages 40% are married, 58% are single and 2% are 'other'
The MD (My wife) is Spanish, Im English and the site manager is English. The next 4 top position are filled by British Asians all the way down to my Polish and Ecuadorian cleaners.
Other languages are banned from being spoken when there is an english only speaker in the room.
So, as you can see quite a different range of cultures and experiences in one place, but great for getting tips on where to go on vacation.
Incidently, when my HR applied for her job she was informed that part of her job was to get qualified in the role of my business so she could understand the roles played by all of the staff, which she duly did.
March 24th, 2015, 12:09 PM
#120
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,305
I had how to reply to this bouncing around my head today. I will try to answer the question in such a way not to incite anything. Ideally, you are correct, the demographic makeup of the company should reflect the demographic makeup of the region or the country, if it's national in scope. However, in the USA, this is not the case. In many professions, especially the more technical and specialized ones, the demographics do not reflect the nation's or region's demographics. This can be from a wide variety of reasons such as physical fortitude being required (which pulls more men), rough conditions (same result), specialized, expensive training (which pulls more affluent people, typically not minorities) and intellectual skill (which favors people who have had good education, upbringing, and nutrition).
You then end up with a company that has a specialized workforce that does not, for whatever reason, match the demographics of the area. A choice must be made; does one want to concentrate on hiring people of certain demographics (which is, in itself, racist/sexist/preference-ist/against X religion/etc) to correct the discrepancy in order to be seen as more diversity minded or does one not?
The problem, I believe, lies in the definition of equality. Equality simply means being equal, but it is the scope in which it is defined that is the problem. If I am equal to you in myself versus you in yourself, then the better of us would be hired. However, if one factors in all the advantages that one group historically has, and the disadvantages another group historically has, then whoever is more disadvantages or under-represented should be hired to "right past wrongs."
You then end up with a company that has a specialized workforce that does not, for whatever reason, match the demographics of the area. A choice must be made; does one want to concentrate on hiring people of certain demographics (which is, in itself, racist/sexist/preference-ist/against X religion/etc) to correct the discrepancy in order to be seen as more diversity minded or does one not?
The problem, I believe, lies in the definition of equality. Equality simply means being equal, but it is the scope in which it is defined that is the problem. If I am equal to you in myself versus you in yourself, then the better of us would be hired. However, if one factors in all the advantages that one group historically has, and the disadvantages another group historically has, then whoever is more disadvantages or under-represented should be hired to "right past wrongs."
