Rickman48

My wife saw the drawing of the drain from across the room, and wondered what I was looking at. Apon explaination, reminded me we obtained blueprints from our [at the time] 110 yr. old home from the city - made copies so we could show an architect, for a 2nd floor addition!
Might help knowing what you're getting into, before you start cutting!

Schne442

Prints are nice but depending on the architect it might not show you anything useful. Back when I was doing room additions the Architect who did all our drawings favorite acronim was VIF which ment varify in field
when we asked what that was he said just do what you want to make it work. Unless your home was custom built and you watched everything that was done most builders cut corners wherever they can to make a buck,as in using the cheepest plumbing materials they can find.

Jamesbo

I too doubt the plans would show the tub drain detail.

gearheads78

I plan on it for sure.

Higgins

Cast iron tub? I personally would not touch it. I have removed a dozen or so cast iron tubs and had to use a sledge hammer to break them into pieces to get them out. They are usually set into place before all the walls and doors are put in so are very difficult to move or remove. They are extremely heavy. Maybe 300lbs?
Do your counter tops have a molded in backsplash or a seperate one? If it is molded into the counter top then there has to be screws that can be removed from the underside. These are factory made tops. There are 4 corner braces in each cabinet, these are where the screws would be. If the backsplash is seperate, the screws may have been put in from the top as this would probably be an on-site made counter. I do this if I am making ceramic tops but not on laminate ones.
Myself, I would just cut in to the cabinet and wall, go from that side without even removing the counter tops. Good Luck.

gearheads78

There is a separate back splash from the counter tops with the same lamenent covering as the tops. They are about an inch thick and 4-5" tall.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Yep gears, looks like you will have to go threw the cabinet. If the counter top is a one piece like Higgins says, has to be screws. If the counter top has all square cut edges along the front, side and the back splash is square cut edge too, than it is a home made top and their is no taking that off.. Thinking of your mess on the way to work,get yourself 2 melamine blades for your skill saw. Think they are 80 or 90 tooth so that will cut nice into the side of the cabinet. They don't stay sharp very long, no carbides on the blade. I can't see any other option's with minimal cost. Sorry man out of idea's

Schne442

I think all the brainstorming is done,Time to hold your nose and take a bite.
Gary

gearheads78

Your right but my next day off is not until Sunday so I may be brainstorming a few more days.

citcapp

Richard,

I hate to give you some more bad news. I have been in construction for over 40 years. Done a lot of houses with tub slab on grade. Most often then not the so called hole where the drain sets is usually about 8" to 12" square, sometimes the drain is centered in the hole if the plumber did a good layout in the first place sometimes it is to the outer edge or inner edge of the hole. The plumber test fits the tube makes adjustments the installs the plastic female adapter on the PVC pipe sets the tub then screws the brass piece in after the tub is set. Being able to work in the small block out space in the concrete if it exists (Sometime filled with concrete) to cut the broken piece off low enough to add a 1-1/4" 2" long coupling back to back with a 1-1/4" Female drain adapter is going to be near impossible. If you try to work from the drain end on the tube the Vent stack and the cold and hot water will be in you way. If you try to work from the side the block out will be completely covered by the tube because of the tub width.

My opinion is you will have to pull the tub. The sheetrock overlays the tube by a 1/2". When I took my tub out I cut it in half with a sawzell and lots of blades. Replaced with a fiberglass tub with a fiberglass surround. Just had to repair the walls with greenboard, mud and tape, paint with primer install tub paint walls and done.

Just my opinion but don't spend you money twice when the cabinet thing doesn't work. Kind of like fixing a car with bondo then putting a quality paint job on it

Good luck

Pat

bulldog

Richard, I've been reading this post from the start and seeing that you were already overwelmed with responses,I felt that I couldn't help with any easy fix ideas. But with that said I must agree with Pat, I think you should just bite the bullet and fix it right the first time. You will likely pay in the end by trying to cut corners. Anyway thats just my 2 cents.

Lady72nRob71

Mine looks like this, hopefully Richard's will be similar:

If so, it should be an easy fix after breaking through the cabinets and wall.
Just posting to give an idea what is (hopefully) back there.

I can still get to my drain easily if needed, after crawling under the water heater in the garage...

Higgins

Great photo Rob. I'm sure that will help Richard a lot. According to his original post he should only have to replace the 1 1/2" pipe that is under the tub. Take 5 min. to do once he gets access. Thank goodness almost all houses in MI. have basements, of course then people proceed to drywall the basement ceilings so they can't get to the plumbing & wiring.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Well that is the best way to cover up your mistakes. I second your motion, dropped ceiling is the best way to, ever need to fix pipes or wires or even add a light or plug,makes life so much simpler

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

I sure hope you are talking about a tub surround and not the skirting. There is no way in ^ell would I ever put a tub in and have painted walls around it. You are looking for the biggest mess ever.Mold would be every where and the drywall would fall off the wall. In new homes we put a 1 piece tub in(tub, walls, ceiling and skirting is in one) install in the RO you built and screw it in place. Drywall to the edges or tile what ever you want and you are done for life. In a reno, kinda the same tub, but it comes in 3 piece's bottom, middle, and the top.They click together and you are done. The other is a one piece tub surround, this is the cheapest way to go but in time does give problems, not enough glue will let go and it will start to come off. If I was to change a tub in my house, I would go no less than a one piece. When I built my house, that is what I put in and I will never use anything else.

Schne442

Guys I too have been following this thread since the beginning and would like to draw a little analogy being that this an auto forum site. Ok take your Olds parked in storage that is your pride and joy, you find that in the spring you try to open the door and find that the door handle broke somewhere inside the door. so A) do you cut off the door skin and repair the handle then find a nice looking fiberglass replacement to repair it. B) open the trunk have one of your kids climb in remove the back seat open the door from inside, you make the repair and close up the trunk with the seat back in place. Sure choice A would give you all the room in the world to work but why destroy a perfecly good bathroon because you cant see the problem under the tub. Unless Rich has top of the line cabinets the corner cabinet has only 1/8 " partical board backing with a 45* angle cut and a void behind it for access to the plumbing wall.wil it be a tight squeez yes but again why rip up the bathroom and destroy a good cast iron tub to put some **** fiberglass one in its place.If Rich has any kind
of mechanical ability he should be able to (with a second pair of hands in the bathroom) get in and replace the PVC trap and overflow.If not he should call in an expert he trusts and let them do the job.
Gary
ps. I have 30 years in the construction and building trades
pss. its always easy when your not spending your own money

gearheads78

Maybe we need to start a home repair sub-catagory


No matter what I am not going demo the bath room untill I have at least attempeted through the kitchen. This will cost me nothing but time to either move the cabnets or cut through them.

If for some reason that does not work I will start a big mess.

JSGD1966

Richard... same setup in my house with the cabinets at the shower/tub wall. The entire left side of the cabinet under the sink, at one time before we moved in, was cut out to provide access to the wall under the counter. Again, the cabinet had two doors leaving a space too small to crawl through. What I did, was gently and gradually push down on the floor of the cabinet under the sink and pop the glue joint of the center piece of wood that makes separates the doors. It wasn't hard because the floors of the cabinets were particle board and were spongy already. Once this is out, the opening was plenty wide for me to get in. Then, when you are done, screw "L" brackets top and bottom, so the piece can be removed easily again later. I glued mine back in, but in hindsight, I should have made it so I could remove them again. It worked but it is still a back cracker getting in and over the floor of the cabinet as the inner most corner under the counter has nothing there. Good luck.

citcapp

Rob posted a great picture of a good to great case install, In by house the vent pipe ran for the plumbing went straight up the middle between the hot and cold and the hole was 8" x 8". As a check you might crawl up in the attic and measure where the vent pipe goes through the roof. I would not just look at the roof it might elbow over where it goes down the wall. It might also tie into the 4" stack and not show up on the roof at all if thats the case then Robs picture will probably resemble your install. Good luck Richard

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Well I guess you have about 12 years up on me, this is my 19th year in the carpentry aspect of the building trade.Like I said the times before go through the cabinet or remove counter top, which sounds it is not possible to take the counter off.So yes I agree with you, the cheapest way is through the cabinet.

Bluevista

Get one of those scope cameras with the light and look inside the wall, do like the bear that went over the mountain and see what you can see.
This job is turning into monster, it's like changing an engine in a car, a lot harder to talk about than it is to do.
It could probably be done in the time it takes read this whole thread.

I'm 55 and started working for my carpenter contractor dad full time in the summers when I was 11, should have been a plumber. I'm not sure how long 11 to 55 is, I'm not good at math.
I just use a stick and mark it to measure stuff like the carpenters from the old country did that I worked with as a youth, hand you a stick with pencil mark and tell you to cuttingk a bunch of studs that long so they can buildingk the wall, then smack you in the head and tell you to gettingk to work.

Schne442

Did someone say Bears,there should be some Bears in "Big D" on Superbowel Sunday

Lady72nRob71

And a whole lot of MAD bears after the game...

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Amazing, 103 post's now and has nothing to do with cars. Like gears said we should start a home owners connection,need help on you house, ask us, we will give you our thoughts .Sounds like their is a few of us contractors here or in the trade, ever one has a house with problems, just ask away.. No I am just kidding, just messing with you folks, like we need a contractor's corner. Put a few of us together and you may as well call us politicians, would have so many answers to your questions you be so confused Any ho have a great night people

Schne442

Just wait till Richard actually starts doing the work and (God forbid) asks
another question. Good thing its just a tub drain and he's not taking down a load bearing exterior wall.
Gary

bulldog

Tool time with a twist

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

ha ha ha ,need to pull down a wall, get a chain saw, cut a hole in the wall, get a big piece of steel.Tie on end to you car/ truck and the other to the steel and drive. Now there is you new opening.. No it wouldn't work that easy, mind you how some people build stuff still boggles my mind and they get away with it

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

reminds me of the job we did this fall, Total exterior renovation. New window, Styrofoam, soffit, and James hardie siding.Any ways started,a window was leaking. So start at the bottom and work up. Had to change the rim joist, we start pulling it off, well it was falling apart.By the time we found the the good stuff we were 16feet down the one side, down another 8 on the other. The only thing that was holding the floor up and the house was the basement partitions. What a mess. So we stayed at it, had to fix the mess.We start pulling boards, by the time we were done the poor family had a 8by 12 wide opening in there boys bedroom. Should of seen her face when she seen thisAnd it was on a bearing side. Oh what fun

Col Wickham

I'm with you. I just installed 2 new bathrooms and did most of the plumbing myself, but I can't visualise Richard's situation. Some pics from various angles would ne good.

citcapp

All these problems can be solved with Richards plan for a new shop. Sell the house. Build a 50,000 square foot super shop with the living quarters on the second level. All of the plumbing can be reached from the mezzanine parts storage level and over the high lift area he can ride the the jib crane to the master bath area. The elevator to the shop will save a lot of steps as well and the kids will love the fire pole to the shop when you're in a hurry. One can only dream right

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Just to come across lots of money, they yea he could do it. Never know you might find gold bricks laying around some where.$$$$$$

kjr442

That sounds like a good plan, I strongly advise against pulling the tub.

gearheads78

OK after I jumped in I was able to remove the little short side cabnet and part of the counter top for access. After vacuuming up aboout 3o lbs of ant bed dirt and breaking up a little bit of concrete that was pored in the hole I had access to get it all apart.

Now I am stuck. The angle and offset of the drain pipe going into the ground it way off. I can pull it to where the offset is about right but hand but it will not say in place. I can use a port o power to gently hold it in place offset wise but the angle is off by a bunch. I already ruined a new $50.00 brass drain trying to bend it to the angle I need. Now what

Lady72nRob71

Hmmm....
Go back with plastic pipe and reshape with heatgun?
or...
Cut new drain pipe fittings in half and connect the freshly cut sections with chunks of radiator hose and hose clamps?? (There are actually rubber plumbing fittings that kinda look like this.) This would allow some for strange angles and offsets...

I assume that long white pipe for the overflow.

Looks like the ground might have shifted, putting tension on the pipes until they snapped when you touched the drain fitting. A similar situation happened on my outdoor gas main.

In order to make my main pipe in the ground move, I filled the hole with water to float the dirt and the pipe then moved enough to become straight again and stay put.
Of course your tub drain is not that long to have a lot of movement.

Got to be careful now to not break anything underground.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

well for first of all you pulled of your counter top and cabinet,good job.So what you are saying the pipes won't match up? Could use PVC or ABS and could use a couple of elbows to of set the bend.

kjr442

The angle is established by the over flow pipe and should send the pipe down in the right direction, If the original rough-in from the ground was installed wrong, then it has always been in a bind. I have used a flexible overflow pipe for cases like this.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

yep or even use an inch and 1/2 flexible hose of some sort, something like an air seeder hose could work but this isn't the proper way to fix it.Can you move the one in the ground

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

come to think don't they make a flexible copper pipe for this

kjr442

Be careful if you try to move the pipe in the ground you could pull it loose from the trap
the flex pipe is made for this type of problem.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Yep,don't go open up a can of worms on your place.