You think this is an abortion...you should see the email I got detailing some of the highlights in the health care bill If you are not screaming and steaming you are not breathing.

 

i heard that thursday.

i just also heard that John McCain will be heading up a fight against this extra money for the program this week. i hope he can get something done. i will make more phone calls Monday.

 

the sky is falling

 

The local (Wash DC market) news had an interview last night with a rep from a major dealership. Of course she was pushing for more money in the program. She also made the point that about 80% of the buyers were purchasing foreign cars.

 

I totally disagree with this program as well, and the fact that the steel is going to China so they can either make things out of it and sell it back to us OR continue building their war machine so they can KILL Americans with it in the future is the WORST part about it. Make no mistake, China is NOT our friend! I have contacted Congressional leaders about the health (inset take away our freedoms here) care theft, now I guess I have to contact them about this as well.

 

At EVERY port in America ships are taking on scrap to go to China and they load 24/7. Picture a conveyor belt with scrap steel going up it 24/7. Every day all year for years. This sucks. Remember the stimulus? The phone calls were 2 to 300 to 1 against the bills passage and it still passed. Remeber when your rep screwed you on that one? Well, he's gonna screw you on this one too. When you have leadership (HA!) that is only out for themselves and couldn't care less about America this is what we get. I don't care Repub or Dem they are leeches and should be strung up at the nearest lightpole. Welcome to socialism boys!

 

we must vote in new blood on both sides!

 

This is very upsetting to me as well. Our tax dollars are funding a program to help people buy foreign cars. (Most of which, whether assembled here or not, have a crappy level of domestic parts content). So their impact on the economy is not as good as it could be if the bill was only supporting the big 3. Besides, didn't we the people, loan 50 billion to GM and Chrysler? So why are we not specifically trying to only help them?

Not to mention the fact that the money does not exist for this program, it is being borrowed like everything else we are doing right now from China. Perhaps it is fitting that they are getting all our scrap steel since they are paying for the program.

 

GREAT POST!!!

If everyone here that complained about this program on a forum that does
NOTHING for us in this regard........we'd be much better off overall as a country.
But 99.9% of the people complaining about things they don't like in a car forum
never stop to take 2 mins , find out who their state reps are, and call them to voice their concerns.

This is a HUGE problem with this country......I've been against this program AND the Bailouts since day 1.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

For the record too, this administration did ATTEMPT to push the "Buy American" campaign, but
the Free Trade agreements foreign Govts frowned on it HEAVILY.......we are screwed by these
ETERNAL "Free Trade" agreements that were signed that never expire. We need FAIR trade, not FREE trade.
America can not compete with slave labor overseas or Mexico and south of there......it's just impossible.

 

you can't just choose which auto manufacturer gets the benefits of this program.

that is called protectionism,which is basically corporate socialism.

you must understand the reason GM and Chrylser are toast,is because of poor management.

you don't reward a company doing a bad job by giving them an incentive to keep doing a bad job.

 

He does make a good point.

Ever wonder how it's possible that Toyota and Lexus (Same co) can make
such fine automobiles that last forever it seems in a country that's so crammed
for space that EVERYTHING is ALOT more expensive as far as living costs go???

Then they send their vehicles here, and sell them for the samething as the one's built
here in the same class ??? Anyone ever find that pretty crazy?? LIke Mercedez as a flip
side argument are used all over Europe as Taxi's and yet HERE they are ultra luxury cars
with a price tag to match that claim.

Why aren't all Toyota's, Honda's, Nissans' far more expensive here??
UAW, ....Legacy costs of over 500,000 people (GM) and then you have **** poor management.
The plain fact is this is a losing business with GM......they now gave the UAW even MORE control.
So expect to see them nationalized in the future.

 

And yet, that's exactly what this clunker program does. Remember when everyone complained that the automakers needed to learn how to sell cars without rebates and incentives? Isn't this clunker programe just another incentive, though now funded from our tax payments?

 

Funny, I just got into an argument with one of my friends about this yesterday. Granted we argue a lot over American cars anyhow...she hates them so we throw insults back and forth at each other's cars...haha. But she really pushed my buttons when she told me that my Oldsmobile's were gas guzzling pieces of junk and should be destroyed. Needless to say I won't be talking to her for quite a while.

I personally think they should have a program that helps people get their old cars FIXED and running properly. Both of my cars failed emissions the first time around. Luckily it only cost me about $100 a piece to get them passed, but I've seen tons of old cars that are in dire need of repair. Car repairs are expensive if you can't do it yourself, lots of people leave their cars broken because they can't afford to get them repaired. I'd certainly take advantage of it being unemployed

 

Ain't it the truth.

 

heard that Ford's sales for July was their first increase in monthly sales in almost 2 years. They said partly due to the clunkers program. it probably helped all dealers a little bit and it would be impossible for the government to state that it only includes the big 3 American cars. It had to be all or nothing. As far as "buy American" that is something that has to be specific to the consumer since governments don't want to get into protectionism like they did coming out of the great depression. it was thought to have extended the lenght of the recovery. Steel has been going to China for a long time so some of the steel from the cars scrapped will of course continue to go there. I still say the part I hate the most is every car being scrapped , that should at least be up to the salvage yards because some cars have more value as parts , but in the same breath I would have to say i really don't know what people are trading in? As far as do the automakers need a handout? I don't think so cause they should be able to come up with creative ways to sell cars on there own.

 

now you're trying to blame the collapse of GM and Chrysler on the unions?

why isn't Ford going broke or filing bankruptcy?

their workers have the same union,Ford has the same legacy costs.

do you have any idea how much GM cars and Chrysler cars would cost if there was no union,and workers were making $10 an hour?

THEY WOULD COST THE SAME

it'a all about crappy management,pure and simple.

you can't just say the pension and health care costs that the union negotiated for it's workers with GM and Chrysler is the reason for a company going under.

these costs were negotiated with the union every contract signing.GM and Chrysler knew what the costs would be and what they have been.

you guys need to stop believing everything you hear on the news,that's all crap.

 

Keep in mind, just because a car says Ford, Chrysler or GM on it doesn't mean its built here employing OUR OWN! Many of their products are built in Mexico, Canada and Australia to name a few! We Americans (meaning USA here) put ourselves in this mess top to bottom! Starting from corporate managment(and I DO work for a Fortune 500 co., who's stock has plunged so bad we are on furloughs, and am in the Automotive biz) down to the janitors, we all lived above our means and became gluttons! What ever happened to working hard for a living! No, we look for as many paid vacation days as we can get, and when is break time! Our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents who came through Ellis Island, were degraded, and built this country with pride and adopted it as THEIR COUNTRY knew what it was like to struggle, and never complained! But I can't totally blame anyone. Unions saw what management was making(bonuses and such), and wanted their fair share. Then management wanted more and unions and on and on until profit margins slipped, quality slipped and we had to find a way to be profitable again! OVERSEAS!!!! CHEAP LABOR!!!! Hence unemployment!!! We weren't happy with some, we wanted all!!! The ones who built this once proud country are rolling over in their graves! I could go on and on, but don't want to risk offending anyone.....Oh, and by the way...if you trully believe the Japanese cars are so much better quality than ours, think again! And ever have a foriegn car break and have to get it fixed! Not cheap! So if you really want to buy American, check and make sure it's American!!!!

 

Well you also have to keep in mind that these companies have shareholders and have to make them happy. The only way to do that is to continue making more profits and then sell more shares then more shareholders and so on and so on. as far as the cars made in Canada the cost is about the same and the CAW saw to that.GM negotiated a $19 dollar per hour pay cut in salary and benefits to keep a couple plants open up here.We don't make and sell cars to the U.S that are our own brand and we are as loyal if not more loyal to the big 3.

 

Ok so I just watched the Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood state that just the motor on these clunkers will be killed and the rest of the car can be used as parts if they are of any use to the salvage yards. all the talk about them getting junked and all the steel going to China confused me on this issue.So Now I am only upset about some decent motors getting trashed.

 

Oh and they said that Ford , GM , Chrysler and Honda reported increases in buisness. The largest being Ford probably cause they have more choices , plus dealers were reporting that people are trading in on cars with a lot higher mpg than the minimum required.So I am less unhappy knowing that Americans are doing the right thing by buying mostly American.

 

Interesting though. Last month I picked up a Sunday paper. I don't check them out that often. Local dealer, a large one, had a 09 GMC pickup that listed for around $37,500 and with all the discounts ended up at around $28,000.
This week, the same truck is listed as $37,500 less discounts, INCLUDING $4500 for cash for clunkers for the same $28,000!!! Looks like the dealers are really taking advantage of the people thinking that they are getting such a great buy!! Not good, unless your the dealer.

 

bingo!!!

i cant count how many folks ive refinanced over and over ,sometimes once a year,because their CC debt got maxed out,and they counted on that artificial equity in their home to bail them out.

now that the bottom has fallen,you just have to look in the mirror,if you want the answer to wtf went wrong

 

I feel the same way. I spoke to my friend who works at the parts counter of a dealership and he said the moral at work has been great. The salesmen are on cloud 9 because they are making more sales. Working on any type of commission sucks when times are bad. I can't imagine how they felt.

 

That's more money for you! I have a friend that does mortgages too and she is making a fortune...it's crazy. I know she's making a lot because I referred someone to her and she gave me a $600 gift card....I was happy

 

im out of the mortgage business.

i learned any business having to do with real estate is a parasite on society

 

Yeah I hear you...I don't think I could do that kind of work. My friend really, is, well...unique...LOL I worked with her at the airline and she was always trying to sell mortgages to people. Very aggressive...I didn't like it.

 

So today I am watching the news and they were tracking the cars from dealerships around tetabourgh? and the salvage yard was draining fluids taking off wheels , rad and catalytic converter and the rest of the car was crushed.Has anyone actually seen the leglisation or heard about what is allowed to be salvaged from these cars.The yard they were showing just shreds the cars for the steel , so I know there aren't these yards everywhere in America , or are there

 

I watched a report about this about three or four days ago and the reporter interviewed the owner of the local recycling yard (probably the only one in town that has a contract to do this but not sure about that). The owner said they were salvaging mostly body parts and interior parts, not mechanical parts, and of course the engine and transmission were going to be destroyed. Now, she may have not been telling the truth but I do know that yard and they do sell a lot of body parts. Maybe that is just where they excel and perhaps it is done differently somewhere else.

 

The only thing I had heard was that the engines had to be destroyed , maybe it depends on what type of salvage yard it goes to?

 

The only reason that Ford isn't in the same boat as GM and Chrysler right now is that they basically mortgaged the company a year or so ago to build up a huge cash reserve. That's been the only thing keeping them going for the last six months. Whether they can ultimately pay it off is a question for another day.

 

Now even NPR is questioning whether or not the environmental impact of building a new car is better than just keeping your old one running. I'm also skeptical that the federal report states that about 60% of the new cars being bought are domestic, but a local dealer interviewed on the news says that about 80% of the buyers are selecting foreign cars (though that only applies to the DC area). The only saving grace is that it appears that the vast majority of the vehicles being scrapped are SUVs and minivans.

 

here it is! i just had a guy ask if he could buy my 85 442 for this program. the first thing i thought was to sell it to him and hope that he gets stuck with it and not be able to trade it in. he did not seem to know much about what he was talking about but i told him that it will only go to an Oldsmobile guy that will have another use for the car. even if it gets parted out it would be better than going to the crusher. he would have bought it for $1100 just to take to get a new car. he said that it would help us both out. i just laughed.

 

He apparently has not read the requirements. He would have had to own the car for the last year and have proof of registration and insurance for that period.

 

that's funny. i don't know much about it but could tell that he did not either. i should call him just to stick him with it. maybe i could buy it back in a year for half price

 

Do it!

 

Hold onto your wallets. It appears that the Senate will concur with the House and pass anther TWO BILLION DOLLARS to put into this stupid program.

 

The ecomomy is in the toilet, lots of good people out of work and this **** just keeps going on and on. Write and call you congressman and show your displeasure as this crock of crap

 

Just read that for the first time ever, HYUNDAI will pass (sell more cars) Chrysler and Nissan for cars sold! CHRYSLER!!!! I say how about $3-4 billion more! If the gov keeps this up, they might accidently put one of the big 3 out of biz! GO KOREA!!!!!

 

Like I said before......CHINA!

 

Haha, no kidding. That's probably who gave them the money for the program anyhow. We've been borrowing money from them for years...we owe them a fortune.