Lady72nRob71

Okay, so it is pure brake bleeding hell for me today.

It started with bench bleeding the MC for an hour - I thought those bubbles would never quit.
I think it was drawing in air from the plastic adapter ports...
I also had to remove bits of assembly grease that was coming out as I bled it.

I could not get any fluid out the left rear cylinder (as in not a drop).
I stuck a drill bit in it and it is not blocked at all...
--How does the bleedser screw port work?

So I go to the right rear screw - plenty of fluid comes out.
Also, I found that those vacuum bleeders suck. Suck air that is, from around the threads of the bleeder screws, so there is a continual stream of little bubbles and you do not know when to stop bleeding. I refilled the master 5 times and the fluid looked clean, but still bubbles...

I go to the front and it sucks air again.
I ran through two bottles of fluid (and half a bottle on the floor when some DA left the front right screw open...)
I still have a sponge pedal...
Looks like I need to summon a helper here tomorrow to do the ol' pump and hold method.

MDchanic

Rob, I agree that you'll need two people to do this job.
I'd recommend breaking the line at every fitting from the W/C back toward the M/C. If you've got fluid on the right side, then you should get fluid somewhere at or before the rubber hose to the rear end.
Once you've got fluid, you know that whatever the problem is, it is right after that.

Did you try to just remove the bleeder screw completely? Sometimes a bleeder can be blocked, or even not drilled , but everything else is fine.

Oh, by the way, cleanup of brake fluid is best done with methanol (denatured alcohol).

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

No, but almost. What is behind it? How does the port work?
If it was not drilled, how was it bled when it was put on?
Brakes were fine before I got ahold of them and tried to improve em...

I cleaned up as best I could with brake parts cleaner. Nasty smelling stuff!

2blu442

Rob, I agree with Eric that you've probably got debris plugging things up somewhere. It's possible that this brake hasn't been working for a while and you've been surviving on the other three wheels Did you replace or rebuild the wheel cylinders? The bleeder valve has a hole in the side of the valve below the threads. So you'll need to remove it and run a wire or something through the hole in the side and the one running through the center of the piece.

If your in a pinch and can't get someone else to help you bleed the brakes try this:

Get a section of rubber hose (maybe 18 inches long) that fits tightly over the bleeder valve. Break the bleeder loose, then hand tighten and attach the hose over the end of the bleeder. Take a beer/coke bottle and put a couple inches of brake fluid in it. Stick the other end of the hose in the bottle making sure the end is under the fluid. Slightly loosen the bleeder and pump the brakes. This will push fluid into the bottle, but will not allow air to be sucked back into the system as you run between the brake pedal, master cylinder and bleeder valve.

This process is not ideal as you can still get some air in past the threads of the bleeder if its too loose. But I've done this before and got the brakes bled good enough to feel safe driving the car. John

Lady72nRob71

Thanks for the description, John. I will pull the screw out whan I get home and see if I can get anything in the holes.
I would find it hard to believe this brake is dead, as the car stopped straight and well, and during the brake inspection, those shoes showed as much wear as the other side.
Why is it I get stuck with the stumpers when the deadline is near...........

joe_padavano

I had exactly this problem on a friend's 1970 Supreme (OK, it was the RIGHT rear on his car...). There was rust blocking the bleed port in the wheel cylinder. I used copper wire to poke the rust out and brake fluid started flowing. Of course, that much rust usually means that the cylinder is due for replacement. Also, pull the bleeder screw out and ensure that the port in the screw is not blocked either.

Lady72nRob71

Okay, so a buddy and I were bleeding this afternoon but we could not even force fluid out this screw. I removed it and it was clear. I gently poked a small awl into the hole and fluid started to flow. So we bled it and the fluid was dirty but not excessively.

We did all 4 wheels and got a better pedal feel, but what defines good pedal?
The pedal goes down 1" with engine off, vacuum depleted, and after that it is fairly firm (small amt of sponginess).
Does this sound right? With engine running the pedal travel seems more it seems - different than before.. Of course since the MC was replaced and booster was rebuilt, the feel could be normal... I will try it out soon.

Thanks all for the insights. I like to hear about what I am getting into BEFORE I get a good chance to possibly F something up! (Of course that sometimes happens anyway, but thats another story...)

Allan R

Glad you got the fluid going again. Hope you poked it really good and flushed a LOT of the old stuff out before you closed it back up. Funny you should have that much trouble bleeding your master cylinder. When I did my booster and cylinder it took about 10 minutes or less to get rid of the bubbles. I know this may sound really dumb to say, but you did have the durned thing clamped level, right?

When I did the brakes on my 95 Regency Elite I went through the same thing. Before the overhaul the pedal was pretty stiff and was pulsating. After replacing the master cylinder, rotors, calipers, pads, hoses and one brake line there was a noticeable difference. Kind of like driving a new Cadillac - you know the feeling right? Well that's 'normal' for this car too. I remember when it was new and always remembered how much 'softer' the brake pedal was than the other Cutlass with power drum brakes. The amount of movement you get will not be all that much different than before, just it will be more effective and smooth - if that makes sense.

Lady72nRob71

We flushed it until the fluid came out pretty clear. The old stuff was nasty.

It took little time to eradicate the large bubbles from the master on the bench, but the small foamy bubbles are the ones that seemed to go on forever. Most were gone, but I think it was sucking air around the plastic bleeder adapter thingies.
I am not gifted with a big vice, but I did hold it level (and checked it with a level).

Your description makes sense - the pedal moves more freely and is softer feeling. I will hopefully drive her around the block this evening to see how she acts and feels.

redoldsman

Rob:

I have had two 72 Cutlasses and neither of them had brakes when I bought them. They gave me nightmares. I took the second one to NTW and had the brakes pressure bled. Some of the best money I ever spent.

Allan R

Ok, you call it what you want to.... Those plugs that were on the MC should not have bled any air into it. Hope it is all gone. In retrospect, you could have clamped it to the side of your bench to keep it level and easier to work on. I can't imagine how difficult it is to try and bleed this thing while holding it with one hand and checking it for level with the other......

Good for you!! She's going to drive wonderfully. And I'll bet you're going to feel like a million bucks. So the next thing to do will be pulling the driveline and rebuild - in 2years or so?. I don't think you can wait that long.....

BTW, I got my LCA straightened out at a shop because I was just not having any luck beating on it. Will pick it up this am and get to work with painting. Going to do it inside (wife will looovve that smell) and let it cure for a few days before the reassembly starts.

Again, my congrats for your accomplishment. Your motivation and support has served to motivate and inspire me. You will never know how much it means me. Next year I plan to start tearing apart the interior, install all the power options and do the driveline . Can't seem to shake the bug.