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Well , someone must of rigged it . I'll take a photo of the part behind it with the o-rings tomorrow . The other big question I have now is ..... Will the Oil pan work on the 455 ? It was from a Toro so it has the indention in it for the FWD drive shaft . I'm hoping because of the different design that it doesn't interfere with the engine cradle somehow .
I'm pondering the same thing you said in your last post . I should either replace the carb or try and fix it . The carb doesn't get that hot , so maybe it can be soldered possibly ? Like you said , the last thing you want is gas on a hot manifold . I would like to get a break down of the parts on this carb and see if that brass looking fitting goes well past that hole that was drilled , then in theory it shouldn't leak . There must be some threads inside that hole that the line goes into I would think . I'll have to shine my new Shadowhawk flashlight in there and see . I could always get a better manifold along with a Edelbrock carb , or whatever would work best on this motor too .
You would be better served with finding a good replacement carb, a good body to replace this one with, or just buying a remanufactured one (the best idea) because the throttle shaft bores in the housing routinely open up and cause vacuum leaks. This can cause a whole host of issues that you can never seem to track down. Usually when they rebuild these they bush the shaft holes to take care of that issue and you end up with a good as new carb.
I realize that it costs money, but trying to repair that body is a fools errand to be sure.
I got the motor lifted using the second from last manifold bolt on both sides which makes the motor tilt forward a bit . I'll have to move this forward one bolt to get it more even ....
In order to get the oil pan off I had to remove the front Toro motor mount , to which it needs to come off anyhow ....
I couldn't be happier with how it looks inside ....
I wonder if I'm going to need a spacer on one of these bolts in the second photo below to accommodate the left over space from the thick motor mount I just removed . One of the brackets from the power steering pump mounts here ....
The timing indicator sets back a little farther because of this ....
You won't know until you go to mount it up, but honestly I don't think it will be an issue. Even if it is, you have the 350 to steal parts from if need be.
Here's what the part inside the carb that the set screw was holding in looks like ....
I will definitely need spacers or washers . You can see how the pulley is off set now that the thick motor mount from the Toro was removed ....
I cleaned some of the sludge off of the motor , but I'm going to need a degreaser to get the rest . I also needed something to set the motor down on , so I used the motor mounts I bought .
Speaking of motor mounts , I should probably have the motor mounts bolted to the frame and not the motor when I install the motor right ? Even if I use the pulleys and assy's from the 350 this will more then likely have the same issue I would think .
Do you think I'll have a clearance issue with the hood if I get a better intake manifold ? This one sits pretty low , and I assumed a higher standing intake manifold would probably be better . Please feel free to educate me .
Also , will I have to utilize the other spot further back for the motor mount when the motor is installed ? I'd hate to have to screw around with spacers after the engine is in place inside the car .
Last edited by oldsguybry; June 27th, 2016 at 01:25 AM.
All you need to do is to transfer everything that is on the front of your 350 over to the 455 and the P/S pump will line up just fine. Don't loose the spacer that goes between the lower part of the bracket and the side of the block or you'll never get the pulley straight.
Do you think I'll have a clearance issue with the hood if I get a better intake manifold ? This one sits pretty low , and I assumed a higher standing intake manifold would probably be better . Please feel free to educate me .
Even a torker fits under the stock hood with no issues if you decide to go the route.
Originally Posted by oldsguybry
Also , will I have to utilize the other spot further back for the motor mount when the motor is installed ? I'd hate to have to screw around with spacers after the engine is in place inside the car .
Use the rear two mount holes on the block under the center exhaust ports or it will never line up.
To give you my advice on a number of questions that have come up so far:
Use the intact flex plate from the 350.
Use the torque converter from the 455.
Use the starter from the 455. An 8:1 350 starter may be barely able to turn a 10.5:1 455.
Motor mounts in rearmost pais of holes.
Use the pulleys and brackets from the 455, BUT use the P/S pump brackets from the 350 IF they are different. Be SURE to use BOTH of the spacers from the 350 P/S pump brackets (one front to the timing case, one side to the frontmost motor mount hole) in either case.
Keep the 455 intake manifold. You can change it later if you ever want to, but there's nothing wrong with it.
If the 455 carburetor is original (check the number) and the primary throttle shaft isn't loose, it would be the best carb for that engine, BUT it looks to me like the fuel filter threads may have been permanently destroyed when they set it up to take that new fitting.
If the threads have been machined off / destroyed beyond Heli-Coiling, then there is a strong argument for just permanently attaching that fitting with a fuel proof epoxy and being done with it.
When installing the engine, the motor mounts stay bolted on to the motor and the frame mounts stay bolted to the frame, and you just ease them together and slide in the thin bolts that connect the two.
You have the engine hoist connected to the engine wrong. The tilter goes front-to-back, not side-to-side. You will need to control the front-back angle a whole lot more than the side-side angle when installing.
If somebody welded the swivels on the casters of the engine hoist so that they won't pivot, that'll be a huge pain in the butt when the time comes. I'd consider renting a different hoist that day.
It looks to me like that engine was rebuilt very close to the time that you got it, which means that it may or may not have all of its original internal parts (high compression pistons, cam...).
I disagree with you on this because you really don't want to contaminate the trans that is in the car with the fluid from the other trans.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Use the starter from the 455. An 8:1 350 starter may be barely able to turn a 10.5:1 455.
This won't work because the engine came out of a Toro and the starter is different.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Motor mounts in rearmost pair of holes.
Correct. I already said that.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Use the pulleys and brackets from the 455, BUT use the P/S pump brackets from the 350 IF they are different. Be SURE to use BOTH of the spacers from the 350 P/S pump brackets (one front to the timing case, one side to the frontmost motor mount hole) in either case.
I disagree with this. It's easier to get a water pump for the 350 and swap everything over. Again the 455 was in a Toro.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Keep the 455 intake manifold. You can change it later if you ever want to, but there's nothing wrong with it.
Yup, yup, not a bad plan. But if he goes with an aftermarket carb he will either need an adapter or a different manifold.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
If the 455 carburetor is original (check the number) and the primary throttle shaft isn't loose, it would be the best carb for that engine, BUT it looks to me like the fuel filter threads may have been permanently destroyed when they set it up to take that new fitting.
If the threads have been machined off / destroyed beyond Heli-Coiling, then there is a strong argument for just permanently attaching that fitting with a fuel proof epoxy and being done with it.
With as bad as the inlet is on that carb I wouldn't use it and I would never suggest anyone else use it. That screw sealed the deal for me. But, that's just me.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
It looks to me like that engine was rebuilt very close to the time that you got it, which means that it may or may not have all of its original internal parts (high compression pistons, cam...).
I can't see any markings on the connecting rods anywhere that might say that the engine was rebuilt, but there are no closeups of the cap area to be sure.
I disagree with you on this because you really don't want to contaminate the trans that is in the car with the fluid from the other trans.
Fair enough, IF there is anything terrible in the other converter.
The Toro converter is probably stiffer than the low compression 350 converter, so I would prefer to use that, but in the end it's a choice between the (possibly) unknown converter versus how he wants it to feel.
Originally Posted by svnt442
This won't work because the engine came out of a Toro and the starter is different.
The nose may be different. The motor portion is the same.
If the nose is different, I would swap it out.
There is a significant torque difference between the starters spec'd for these engines.
Originally Posted by svnt442
Correct. I already said that.
Just reiterating.
Originally Posted by svnt442
I disagree with this. It's easier to get a water pump for the 350 and swap everything over. Again the 455 was in a Toro.
The reason I suggested keeping the Toro pulleys is because there is a good chance that the relative diameters of the pulleys is different between the two cars, causing the water pumps to spin at different speeds, and the 350's ratio may be wrong for the Toro motor.
Also, there is not significant configuration difference between the '68 and the '72 accessories, so it should fit fine.
Also, the Toro belts will be sure to fit fine, and he may need to do a little figuring if he uses the 350 setup on the big block.
Originally Posted by svnt442
Yup, yup, not a bad plan. But if he goes with an aftermarket carb he will either need an adapter or a different manifold.
Sure, but I think he's trying to keep it cheap, at least for now.
Originally Posted by svnt442
With as bad as the inlet is on that carb I wouldn't use it and I would never suggest anyone else use it. That screw sealed the deal for me. But, that's just me.
I understand. Once again, I'm thinking cheap - I know he's a bit tight for cash. The inlet can be epoxied so long as the threads are there enough to almost tighten (ie: not completely stripped). If the threads are completely FUBAR, I wouldn't trust just the epoxy.
He's got nothing to lose by epoxying it, because the casting is destroyed anyway, and can always swap carbs later on, once it's on the road.
Originally Posted by svnt442
I can't see any markings on the connecting rods anywhere that might say that the engine was rebuilt, but there are no closeups of the cap area to be sure.
I'm going by the brand-new rocker bridges and the distinct difference in residual crud between the crank throws and the main bearing caps - looks like it's been apart and some parts cleaned, to me.
use the P/S pump brackets from the 350 IF they are different.
They are not. The PS pump bracket is the same. The differences are in the spacers between the bracket and the block. In particular, be sure you have the one in place on the lower rear mount that bolts to the side of the block. This replaces the thickness of the differential bracket on the Toro. As noted, steal these two spacers from the 350.
If the 455 carburetor is original (check the number) and the primary throttle shaft isn't loose, it would be the best carb for that engine, BUT it looks to me like the fuel filter threads may have been permanently destroyed when they set it up to take that new fitting.
If the threads have been machined off / destroyed beyond Heli-Coiling, then there is a strong argument for just permanently attaching that fitting with a fuel proof epoxy and being done with it.
I shined a light in there today and there were threads at one time , but they're barely visible now . Toast
Originally Posted by MDchanic
You have the engine hoist connected to the engine wrong. The tilter goes front-to-back, not side-to-side. You will need to control the front-back angle a whole lot more than the side-side angle when installing.
Damn , I don't think the chains are long enough to reach that way . I'll have to check .
Originally Posted by MDchanic
If somebody welded the swivels on the casters of the engine hoist so that they won't pivot, that'll be a huge pain in the butt when the time comes. I'd consider renting a different hoist that day.
The swivels aren't welded , but the back wheels both point outward like a bad wheel alignment . It's a real PITA when I try to move that thing with the motor weight on it . It's a real workout
Also, there is not significant configuration difference between the '68 and the '72 accessories, so it should fit fine.
Also, the Toro belts will be sure to fit fine, and he may need to do a little figuring if he uses the 350 setup on the big block.
There's a 76 Olds 350 in the car now . It was there when I bought the car . I'm not sure if this changes anything mentioned earlier .
They are not. The PS pump bracket is the same. The differences are in the spacers between the bracket and the block. In particular, be sure you have the one in place on the lower rear mount that bolts to the side of the block. This replaces the thickness of the differential bracket on the Toro. As noted, steal these two spacers from the 350.
You may be able to Helicoil that. Check to see whether it's the right carb in the first place, and whether it's intact internally before putting out the dough for a Helicoil kit.
Damn , I don't think the chains are long enough to reach that way .
Because they aren't supposed to. I have a similar HF tilter. Only ONE end of each chain is attached to the block, in diagonally opposite corners. The tabs on the tilter have notches that allow you to adjust the length of chain sticking out from each end to best fit the pickup points on the block. Yes, I realize the unit in the photo isn't the same one as the OP's. It's the only picture I could find quickly.
Because they aren't supposed to. I have a similar HF tilter. Only ONE end of each chain is attached to the block, in diagonally opposite corners. The tabs on the tilter have notches that allow you to adjust the length of chain sticking out from each end to best fit the pickup points on the block. Yes, I realize the unit in the photo isn't the same one as the OP's. It's the only picture I could find quickly.
That's a great idea ! I got the chains to reach but the motor tends to want turn sideways when I lift it . I will have to post a picture later after work to show you what I mean .
Never mind the picture . I now realize that's the reason it's turning is because of the bad chain placement . I'm going to set it up like you have it in the picture . That looks a whole lot easier to maneuver .
Last edited by oldsguybry; June 29th, 2016 at 02:57 AM.
You may be able to Helicoil that. Check to see whether it's the right carb in the first place, and whether it's intact internally before putting out the dough for a Helicoil kit.
I had to buy some bolts from the hardware store because there are only two mount bolts for the side of the motor being the motor came out of a Toro . One of them was too long to accommodate the mounting plate so I bought some the same length / grade as the shorter one .....
I got the chains set better , but I noticed that the motor tends to turn to the side about 45 degrees . I noticed the picture Joe posted is doing the same thing , just not as much . I there any way to have the motor sit nice and straight when you lift it ? I noticed the way the tilter is designed makes the chain kind of work against itself . It seems to me that if the eye that the chain is on was turned 90 degrees this wouldn't happen . I didn't play around with it a ton yet , so maybe there's something I'm missing ....
The motor tends to twist a little. Get used to it.
You don't need the bolt on the upper end of the chains as shown here:
The notch in the bottom of the tab on the leveler is what holds the chain. This allows easy adjustment. The chain should run from the engine to the outside of the tab and through the hole. Hook it into the notch. The inside end of the chain just hangs free.
Yeah I seen you just have it hanging in the notch without the bolts I added . I guess I'm just paranoid The bolt nut is loose , so I can easily unscrew it if needed .
I noticed that there's some black oil on the bolt thread when I took one of the back manifold bolts out . I'm a little worried that maybe I should replace the gasket on the manifold , or is this normal ? I really don't want antifreeze and oil mixing together .
I will also have to torque the valve covers and oil pan bolts . I thought it was like 7lbs or something . I will have to look it up .
Last edited by oldsguybry; July 1st, 2016 at 10:29 PM.
Well this didn't start out very well . I spent all morning screwing around and getting stuff ready . Then I had to stop at three stores in order to find those tags with the wire twist tie on one end . I also guess that it wasn't such a great idea trying to take the hood off by myself . I had a pulley on the garage rafters with a rope tied to the nose of the hood . In theory it would of worked , but the place I had the other end tied to decided to move on me ripping a loose shelf off of the wall . down came a bunch of misc solvents and spray cans along with a plastic bottle of some real old charcoal lighter fluid that broke open on the floor . That was fun to clean up .
I managed to get everything unhooked except for the bell housing , wires , and the exhaust . The worst part was getting the three torque converter bolts out ....
I have no idea why I tried that , but it would of worked if it wasn't for the bad tie off job . I went back to my place and had my son come help me carry the hood off the car after it came crashing down . I'm lucky nothing got broke , like me lol . The funny thing is , I seen the rope slipping , so I carefully let go of the hood and made the mad dash for the rope which was like 6ft away ....... I didn't make it in time . I could here that Benny Hill music playing in the background again lol . I've heard this before when things like this happen .
Remember when I said that the back wheels were pointing outward , and I couldn't move the engine hoist like it should ? That would be because they were on the wrong side ! I figured it out today while I was looking at it ....
I was hoping that this wasn't going to happen , but it did . I PB Blasted it , heated the crap out of it , and I was turning it real slow . Now I'm going to have to drill and tap it ugh ....
This part is a bit scary . One side of the bell housing had loose bolts , not to mention they don't even match ....
I got everything tagged , and all the bolts , hoses , vacuum lines , and wires off .....
I saw this at the New Berlin parade today ....
I didn't get the motor out today . I've had a lot of family doings this weekend , so hopefully I will get the motor out tomorrow .
Also, the best way to get those bolts out of the exhaust manifold it with heat.
- Eric
I'll wear my steel toe shoes
To reiterate on the removal attempt yesterday . It didn't budge ..... I think maybe I didn't try to raise it high enough to start moving it like it does when it's on the floor , I was worried about breaking something . I have the two tranny bolts out , three torque converter bolts , six bell housing bolts , and of course the two long motor mount bolts .
Last edited by oldsguybry; July 5th, 2016 at 06:54 AM.
June 24th, 2016, 11:26 PM
The bolt nut is loose , so I can easily unscrew it if needed . 
. I had a pulley on the garage rafters with a rope tied to the nose of the hood . In theory it would of worked , but the place I had the other end tied to decided to move on me ripping a loose shelf off of the wall . down came a bunch of misc solvents and spray cans along with a plastic bottle of some real old charcoal lighter fluid that broke open on the floor . 
That was fun to clean up . 
I figured it out today while I was looking at it ....
