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I'm using a Fram PH25 oil filter on the 455 in my Cutlass. The engine has a stock oil pan. Is there a "taller" or larger oil filter that is the equivalent of the PH25 that has a greater capacity? In any brand?
If you look at the mounting face of the filter there will be a number stamped into it and that is the number that Fram uses to identify that part of the filter. If you compare filters and find one with the same stamp, it will screw onto the engine, so long as it doesn't hit anything else on the block.
First thing, I avoid Fram filters like the plague. If you ever cut one open, you will see how cheaply made it is. Wix 51049 and NAPA Gold 1049 (which are Wix) are my preferred filters. Baldwin B9 is also good. All of these are one quart filters.
Why do you want a bigger filter? The filtering media is more important.
I agree with Joe, I don't like Fram. I use to use Wix/Napa gold, and sometimes I will run the Bosch filter when it's on sale. The bosch is smaller, but it does filter better and it filters longer. My own personal UOA's showed better results with the Bosch with higher mileage than with the WIX with lower miles.
I used the same oil during the 4 intervals. (I ran the WIX first, changed it, ran WIX again, both were sent out. Then I used Bosch twice).
I've since sold the car, and I'm sure the guy who bought it beats the bag off of it, probably still has a the filter that it had when I sold it, or a cheap FRAM. Oh well, I got my money, not my problem.
Having more oil capacity is always a good thing, even on a basic street car so if there is room, running the taller filter is a good idea. Fram does offer their "HP" series filters which are 1 quart capacity and are better than their standard filters. Wix does have a taller filter as well which is a very good piece and so does K&N which is quite pricy but well made too.
Having more oil capacity is always a good thing, even on a basic street car so if there is room, running the taller filter is a good idea.
Extra capacity is irrelevant if you only put five quarts of oil into the pan. Filter media quality and surface area are the two most important parameters for a filter.
Not sure Joe where the original poster indicated he intended to still only use 5 quarts of oil...
Oil is as much a coolant as it is a lubricant so any chance you have to increase circulation via capacity, you increase the oil life as well as help reduce the temperatures of critical engine components.
IIRC, some time ago there was a discussion of oil filters and the Wix with the longer can didn't have as good a filtration as the 51258. I use the Wix 51258.
It's the 51049 and it does have different filter media in it.
I thought the only difference was size and no drain back valve? I just threw on a 1049 in place of an orange can of doom on the Olds 260. Is it less pleats or different media?
I was looking for a little more capacity to aid in cooling. The car has a 180 thermostat, 4 row radiator, all the factory shrouds in place, a HD clutch fan, and 7 blade fan. I can drive it for about 25 miles on the highway before the temp climbs up to 210-215. That's when I get off the highway and travel back roads to my destination. The temp then goes down to 180-185. I know that the extra oil won't solve my cooling issue... but it can't hurt.
Just finished changing the oil using the Wix 51049 filter.
Sounds like you have a water circulation issue with the cooling system. Maybe a collapsing hose, partially stuck thermostat, obstructions in the radiator, water pump impeller issue, or even an air pocket in the cooling system .
I've yet to see a valid argument as to why Fram are so terrible.
Anecdotal chatter or someone cutting open a filter on youtube then saying "look how awful this is" doesn't make for a valid argument imo.
No doubt they have some failures, but if they were as bad as some say they would have gone out of business long ago.
I have fitted thousands of Fram filters over the years, and can't recall one instance of engine damage due to a bad filter.
Sounds like you have a water circulation issue with the cooling system. Maybe a collapsing hose, partially stuck thermostat, obstructions in the radiator, water pump impeller issue, or even an air pocket in the cooling system .
Correct, the water cools the oil, not the other way around.
The advantage of a larger filter isn't just the holding capacity. You get more media surface area, so there is less pressure drop through the filter. When you want to move oil volume, it can help.
Have only had one Fram issue but it was a scary one. This was on a 540BBC race engine. Changed oil, oil pressure was at 50 at idle, rev engine and pressure would drop below 20..
Couldn't figure it out. Swapped filter to the old one (we were at the track) and oil pressure went back to normal..
I believe the filter media may have been collapsing.
The advantage of a larger filter isn't just the holding capacity. You get more media surface area, so there is less pressure drop through the filter. When you want to move oil volume, it can help.
So if you had a hi flow oil pump the larger filter would be what you would want to go with.
A good filter, with solid construction, how the media is pleated, the end caps are the main factors. With these engines designed to go 3k oil change intervals on old technology oil and filters. We have come along way since then. I use a Napa Gold 1258 on my olds 455.
R4kFhn7.jpg
From my other post - this is what a wix 51258 looks like on a 455 with headers.
There is also the longer and thinner Wix 51045, but I don't have a picture of that one.
I ran a Fram on a Jeep 4.0 recently and at about 4000 miles I started seeing -10 to 15psi oil pressure from spec and the gauge would bounce around more erratically. After changing the oil at 5000 miles and switching to a Wix filter the pressure is in spec and stable. Had the oil lab tested, TBN still at 3.5 and viscosity within spec, but wear metals a little on the high side. Can't say for sure it was the filter, but I don't particularly feel like putting another one on after that. :/
I ran a Fram on a Jeep 4.0 recently and at about 4000 miles I started seeing -10 to 15psi oil pressure from spec and the gauge would bounce around more erratically. After changing the oil at 5000 miles and switching to a Wix filter the pressure is in spec and stable. Had the oil lab tested, TBN still at 3.5 and viscosity within spec, but wear metals a little on the high side. Can't say for sure it was the filter, but I don't particularly feel like putting another one on after that. :/
My Jeep 4.0 did exactly the same thing. It was the oil pressure sending unit. You might have banged yours when you were doing something under there -- they seem to be touchy that way.
I always use the larger Ford oil filter on my Jeep (Motocraft FL1A or Wix/NAPA 1515). Learned that the Chrysler and Ford filters have the same mounting dimensions from my manager at the NAPA store where I worked in high school back in the 80s.
I still use a PF24. Here’s one cut open. I’ve cut alot of brands open, still quality. Paper is thick. ( Pontiac app)
compare to what’s going on at GM these days,the plastic housing with the paper element you replace, these are a lot stronger.
olds guys, we’re your cars orig using a PF 30?
Last edited by Burd; November 13th, 2021 at 01:50 PM.
I still use a PF24. Here’s one cut open. I’ve cut alot of brands open, still quality. Paper is thick. ( Pontiac app)
compare to what’s going on at GM these days,the plastic housing with the paper element you replace, these are a lot stronger.
olds guys, we’re your cars orig using a PF 30?
Thanks for pic , i saw that Wix 51049 was rated 21 micron and PF 24 18 micron so maybe it,s
better to stay with PF24 and change filter more often because it have better cleaning of oil.
I'm using a Fram PH25 oil filter on the 455 in my Cutlass. The engine has a stock oil pan. Is there a "taller" or larger oil filter that is the equivalent of the PH25 that has a greater capacity? In any brand?
I use Wix 51515 on my 455 and also on my 350, I think they are the equivalent of AC PF2 ?? The filter holds almost 20 oz of oil - I prefill the filter when I do oil change
I use Wix 51515 on my 455 and also on my 350, I think they are the equivalent of AC PF2 ?? The filter holds almost 20 oz of oil - I prefill the filter when I do oil change
According to Wix, 51515 has a 3/4-16 thread. Olds uses a 13/16-16 thread.
Wix 51049 is exactly the same size can as 51515 but has the correct Olds thread and gasket size.
Wix 51831 has the correct 13/16-16 threads to fit an Olds, has the same gasket diameter, and is 7" tall, so significantly larger than 51515 (or 51049) anyway.
Well, the data in the Wix catalog doesn't quite match RockAuto. The big difference is that RA shows an anti-drainback valve, whereas the Wix data does not. Of course, this is a non-issue for an Olds that mounts the filter open end up.
September 16th, 2017, 11:02 AM
