I am new to this since im only 15 but ive been reading some of these threads. and im kinda confused i know theres big blocks and small blocks but im confused about long block and toro motors? help appreciated Thanks

 

Longblock is usually referred to a motorblock(despite brand) with the heads on and nothing else on it like intake,carb,exsaust,WP and such.
Toro engines is the motors that were installed in the FWD Toronado Olds usually 425 and 455 cui.

Hope that helps.

Btw thats a longblock http://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=h...w=1259&bih=839

 

In addition to getting your answer, you are extended a hearty welcome to Classic Oldsmobile! You could not pick a better vehicle brand with which to associate yourself. We hope you so become an Olds owner! We need all the blood we can get, but especially "young bloods!" Again, welcome!

 

Welcome. As noted, short block and long block are generic terms that apply to any motor. Short block is the block and reciprocating assembly (crank, pistons, rods). Long block is a short block with head(s) bolted on.

Big block and small block are less well defined and are often misused. Many automakers have very distinctly different engine families that are classified as "big" and "small". The 1964-1990 Olds engine families are also called big and small but in reality they are the same basic design. The fundamental difference is the deck height (measurement from crank centerline to the deck surface on the block). The small block Olds is defined as those motors with the short deck height (260, 307, 330, 350, 403). The big block Olds is those motors with the tall deck (400, 425, 455). Many internal and external parts interchange between the two families. The taller deck height means that intakes do not interchange. Cranks also do not interchange due to different main and rod bearing sizes, though the bore spacing is the same. Toronado motors are no different than any other Olds motor with a few different bolt-on parts due to the FWD application. These include a unique intake with a lower carb flange and a unique oil pan to clear the drive axle. Of course, all Olds motors have different cam specs, compression ratio, and valve sizes depending on the application and HP rating.

 

This part has been answered so my repeating is redundant.


IMO the terms are not defined at all and should not be used ; there are no big or small blocks. Grapefruit are not big block oranges.
Sorry Joe, it's just one of my pet peeves.

Happy New Year

 

True enough...

...and I'm sure you'll have no problem getting tens of thousands of Olds enthusiasts to switch to calling them "tall deck" and "short deck" blocks...

- Eric

 

The funny thing is when I was at the machine shop picking up the 455 for the 57 Olds. The 455 set between a 454 chebby and 1 427 ford that had been built with very similar spec's

The Olds engine was noticeably smaller then either the ford or the Chebby and according to the machine shop weighed less then either one, but produced more torque then either. I know the 455 and the turbo 400 weigh 200 + lbs less then the 371 and the hydro that came out of the 57.

 

No time like the present to start.....

...would read.
The 455 tall deck Olds set between a 454 Mark IV chebby and 1 427 FE Ford...

 

Except for higher horsepower and torque ratings that were mainly due to marketing and internal GM politics, Toronado engines are not much different than regular Olds big (tall deck) blocks. As Joe P stated, 66-70 had specific intake manifolds for hood clearance and all years had oil filter, oil pan and exhaust manifolds adapted to the front wheel drive layout.

Stick with us, young'un. We'll teach you what we know. Any teenager who digs old American cars is OK in my book.

 

Well, the Ford folks definitely DO talk about FE blocks, Windsor blocks, Cleveland Blocks, and Lima blocks, but good luck getting the bow tie folks to refer to the Mark IV and Mark V blocks as anything but big blocks, even though they then have to specify which version (IV, V, or, I believe, VI) they're referring to every time anyway.

- Eric

 

I don't really disagree with you, and I've often said that the two Olds engine families are more like the B and RB Chrysler families, but conventional usage is BBO for tall deck and SBO for short deck. Of course, to add to the confusion, the first gen Olds motors were made in THREE different deck heights.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I also know that Pontaic did not have a big or small block. I believe all their engine where the same.

I always called the Olds motors big and small blocks, so I'm not trying to start a debate on that, but I do know that everything, except for the intake manifold, will swap from year to year and big to small, from 1964 to 1990

The nice part about that is you can take a 1990 Custom Cruiser which was the last year of the Olds 307 and drop in a 1968 455 in there with little to no mods. Try that with a Chevy

 

The 301 is a low deck Pontiac engine therefore if there were such things as small and big blocks it would be a Pontiac small block.

 

Um, almost. The BBO (and diesels) have larger main and rod bearings, so the cranks don't swap (though bore spacing is the same). Of course, there's the problem of the different crank flange bolt pattern on the 64-67 cranks and the 45 deg vs 37 deg lifter bank angle and the 0.842" vs 0.921" lifter diameter and the different rods and pushrods between BBO and SBO.

But your point that the architecture is the same is very true.

 

]

Diesel crank in 455 .030 over. Special connecting rods and presto a destroker 367CID. Makes as much sense as a 377.
JMO

 

Just wanted to say that all of you guys impressed me by your being so nice and tolerable when addressing this new guy. I'm so glad that no one blew the guy out and made him feel like a jerk, like what happens on so many vehicle sites, especially under a topic like "big blocks." It's not like the kid came in to the " New guy" area. This makes me like this place even more than I did before, which is quite alot. I will say that I read alot more on this site than I post, as I find quite abit of what I need by keeping my mouth shut and listening. No doubt, I'll always be a fan of the 455 Olds Rocket, it sure pulls my old '62 pick-up along in a hurry.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Jim

Just wanted to say that all of you guys impressed me by your being so nice and tolerable when addressing this new guy. I'm so glad that no one blew the guy out and made him feel like a jerk,

x2

 

X2,im a car mechanic myself but worked mostly on 4bangers by just listening (reading) and occasionaly asking i learned a lot about V8s and especially Olds and still learning.Like my old teacher used to say ,no one knows everything and there is no stupid questions just stupid answers

 

Aslo a bit to add, Toronado motors (425 and 455s) have the starter on the right hand side.

 

Just to clarify, Toro blocks are the same as any other comparably sized Olds block and have the starter mounting pad on the driver's side. The Toro transaxle would interfere with that starter location, so the Toro uses a special starter nose that bolts to the transmission bellhousing on the passenger side as noted (the oil filter adapter is different because of this). Once you pull the trans off that Toro motor, however, a normal RWD starter bolts right up in the usual location.

 

Welcome to CO, 330Oldsmobile! I'm not sure, but I think you (and we) just got a very good lesson on Oldsmobile engines! Glad you are here, stay with us, and let us know how you are coming along!

 

To add more to the Chevrolet confusion, dont forget the 348/409.