do a warm one also…something sure isn’t right. 25 lbs difference on a new engine is a warning

 

This is like a soap opera for gearheads. I can't wait to see what happens in the next episode.

 

That has to be the best post in this thread yet.

 

Threads like these keep me the hell away from the performance/restoration industry.

 

this guys engine is milder than most factory W Machines…you’re afraid of nothing.

it wasn’t built right, that’s all

 

I never said I was afraid of anything. You've misunderstood my thought, but perhaps I didn't convey it properly. This thread/car is tied to four(?) different vendors in just the motor. the OP is way deep in cash, the finger pointing has already begun and now the motor is coming back out. It should be an easy guess what will eventually happen. This is all too common. The drama pulls any thought of joy out of it for me.

 

ya, you’re afraid.

another person mistakes or misfortunes in this hobby shouldn’t pull any joy from your life. that’s just plain weird …it should be a learning experience.

 

You honesty don't have a clue.

 

your exact words are…”the drama pulls any thought of joy out of it for me”

that’s a crazy thing to say to anyone about another persons misfortune …I’m helping the guy, with facts and years of experience.

you on the other hand are only concerned about your joy and thoughts…this isn’t about you or your feelings. it’s a tech discussion on how to diagnose the problems he’s having

you could learn something from keeping your mouth just and listening

 

Again you don't have a clue. you know nothing about me or what I know. What I do know for sure is arguing with some keyboard warrior ******* is a total waste of my time. So quote me and respond, but you better get it all out because i won't respond further than this. GFY.

 

I know you’re a crybaby.

 

Well this kinda took off..

Finally getting to the point where I can walk to the bathroom and not be winded. I know I'm fat and all..but sheesh. Lol.

It was mentioned that it's simply not built right..and I agree after the most recent test. Sure, previous tests/conversations may have been shrouded in denial on my part, but I have never experienced this before..so based on my hands-on knowledge previously, I had believed it could be "tuned out". I know now, there's no tuning that'll fix it.

tentatively, the plan is to hook the wideband up and verify A/F numbers to get the carb closer (I still think it's simply not getting enough fuel) and then once thats at least in the ballpark, I'll go ahead and yank the engine and send it off. My hope is that essentially I'll be in it for labor/machining/gaskets..but I know we've gone past the initial goal of this car so my priority is to ensure its right.

It's definitely not an ideal situation, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

In the meantime while it's out, it'll allow me to address a couple things that I didn't think about the first year and a half without an engine..

 

So I have to wonder what you expect to find that is “not built right”.

The only things I can imagine from a machining standpoint are:
bearing clearances (apparently not your issue),
piston-to-deck clearance (maybe an impact on compression),
head chamber volume ( also affects compression, but can be rectified without pulling engine).

Then there’s the possibility the camshaft is not appropriate for the application (also can be rectified without pulling the engine).

Then there’s camshaft degreeing, which I recall you verified and not an issue.

So what do you expect to find by pulling the engine? Maybe I’m missing something obvious, so help me understand.

 

I don't mean to get all combative or anything, but I have to wonder why you're tuning the carburetor and then yanking the engine.

Regardless, best of luck!

 

At the very least, i believe the issue is piston to deck clearance. The block was machined by the first shop, but measured with pistons that didn't fit and rods that were bent. The assembly shop found the problem, new pistons and rods were obtained, but I'm not sure how different the overall height is between the two.


I cannot get any info on rod/jet size without providing A/F numbers. Plus, there's the concern that it may have been a bad core from the start.

 

Kind of a "cart before the horse" scenario, though. If you're getting into the engine anyway, you may make changes that will likely affect how you want to set up the carburetor so you may end up doing it twice. At least.

 

I absolutely agree..but without knowing what's in it, I can't order what I need to be able to adjust either direction. A total catch-22 situation..but rather than send it knowing I'll have multiple dyno pulls..Im hoping to just get it in the ballpark and be able to have a couple sizes up & down available.

 

You can check that without puling the engine.
If you discover too much / too little clearance, that may be addressable by using a thinner or thicker head gasket.
I'd remove a head and make some measurements before pulling the engine, but that's just me.

 

He’s talking like maybe .040 or so. Unfortunately you’re not going to effect that with a thinner gasket.

 

The compression test readings show an obvious issue. those are bad readings for an old worn out piece of junk.

they are all over the place.

it’s not a points dwell problem 😂😂😂😂😂

 

Well, at least part of the original point of this thread has been solved. 🤷‍♂️

 

While I don't disagree, I'd feel more apt to look at that if the compression numbers were consistent per bank. Having such drastically different numbers (especially 6 & 8) is my hang-up.

It wouldn't be the first time I'd pulled heads in a car. Definitely easier..but Im not sure that'd be the fix.

 

I’m still wondering what the hell “Go Find Yelp” means

 

Google that **** up.

 

😂

 

Is this the never ending gobstopper?

 

Any update here, BG?

 

Nothing to really update. At this point, the plan is still to get the carb dialed in (for where it's at currently) and then I'm hoping to get the engine pulled and sent off. I don't like the cart before the horse in dialing a carb in for an engine that isn't right, but at this point we're also wondering if it could be a bad core (regarding the carburetor issues specifically).

If I could figure out how, I'd go ahead and just close this thread as we've moved past the original topic at this point.

 

On some sites you can close and erase a thread just by deleting OP but I don't know if this is one of them. Regardless, you may as well post updates here as anywhere. That way I can follow your saga without having to open up a new subscription.

 

I built a 69 455 engine and changed the cam and sent the D heads out for a valve job. When I assembled the engine, I had all kinds of issues with low compression and low vacuum. I thought it was the cam and replaced it but same problem. What had happened was the machine shop ground my heads at 45degree instead of 30degree and did not set the valve height. (Have to grind valve stem since no adjustment on stock setup) This let the stock push rods hold the valve open too far. On your car you say it was zero decked and guessing you had a valve job. Having second guy assemble it and not taking into account what first guy did was mistake. I would never install a cam without degree it just because of all the different timing chains/cam differences. A machine shop who says doesn't need to be done I would run away from. Anyways the cure was a set of adjustable push rods. (This was back in the 70s) Today you can get a push rod length checker, shorter push rods, comp cams adjustable rockers with screw in studs) This could be a cheap fix if it is only getting the right length push rods.

 

Correct, block was zero decked and heads had a valve job. Not only was the information passed along to assembly, but when he initially tried to assemble it and realized pistons were hitting the counterweight on the crank, and a couple rods were bent..that necessitated the change of rod/piston setup..which opens up the variable of them having been slightly shorter.

And yes, the assembly shop is the shop who swore up and down it wasn't necessary to degree a cam. The more I talk with people around here about all the troubles I've had from that shop, the more I hear others have had as well. Specifically with the one person. Its pretty frustrating, but at the end of the day all I can do is just warn others about that shop, and work to have mine fixed.

 

Got the wideband hooked up this afternoon. The carb is lean for sure, but now having numbers I'll get em sent over and hopefully we can get it dialed in before time comes to yank the engine.

 

Did you post what the compression ratio of the pistons are??? Didn't see it..

Also you said no milling on heads and block..

What is your head gasket compressed spec??

Also, when you say detonating, can you say what it sounds like per ball park rpm... with and without load ie. in gear on the road..

to give us more info..

 

Cliff helped me and told me the carbs need to be jetted(jet and primary rod in QJET) slightly richer due to the ethanol in gasoline nowdays which makes it run lean.. . Helped with making my engine run cooler like 10F deg cooler on the street..

Fred

 

At least now you have a very valuable tuning aid to get your carburetor dial in. Being that you can see the changes in real time, it should be easy to get to your goal. Maybe you won't need to pull the engine.

 

Not sure on the ratio, how much of the block was milled, OR what size gasket was used.

I'd guess the detonation is above 3k, but thats a complete guess.

 

Have you ever tried to get a flat fuel curve out of a Qjet? Not as easy as you think.

 

The compression deficiency is not a tuning issue and probably neither is the vacuum leak (given that the carburetor has been off and on so many times), so I'm still wondering why you're sorting out the carb before dealing with them.

But I already mentioned that, didn't I?

 

Yes, and I responded already.

I agree the compression issue isn't a tuning issue, nor is the vacuum issue (as a whole) a tuning issue. The tuning issue for this carb comes down to the detonation and inability to idle properly. Thanks to the AF numbers, we (John) now has a solid direction to go to get the carb in the ballpark for when the engine is fixed. The idea that once the engine is finally right, the most that'll need done is some adjusting on the mix screws.

 

Sorry but not true. I’ve had a dozen Qjets on my Dyno from virtually every carb builder out there. NONE of them were right, NONE. Some were way off.
Don’t assume it’ll be right, and don’t pay for it either.