advise for first time olds build please . 455
October 5th, 2013, 06:05 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
advise for first time olds build please . 455
hello there .
about one year ago i got a deal i could not refuse , it was a super clean 84 delta 88 . i have never owned a huge car( it is the same age as myself) but i fell in love with it as soon as i drove it
. it took 2 months for me to appreciate everything about this car except the 307 v8 and the emissions that needed MUCH tinkering with to keep it running right ... to keep this story short i was on a mission to find a pre 1972 olds v8 .
i found a 1971 455 4bbl ( not the highest performer ) i cannot think of the codes on the heads or exact specs right now .
i have searched a fair amount and it seems to be all about how much hp one can get out of a 455 .... i would like to build a motor the is OVER built and under stressed that makes the most possible amount of torque( huge heavy car with high gears ) . the reason i would like torque is i do not have the budget or expertise to change the high gears and want to keep the overdrive tranny ( modded 200 metric to handle more power ) . i would appreciate anyone who could take the time to advise on the torque over hp build i would like to do . i apologize if this question has been asked before , i could not find much info on it .
The end result is to have a green , whitewalled , wire hubcap cruiser 98% of the time .
2% of the time embarrassing the loud obnoxious "tuner" hondas in my neighborhood (if possible )
about one year ago i got a deal i could not refuse , it was a super clean 84 delta 88 . i have never owned a huge car( it is the same age as myself) but i fell in love with it as soon as i drove it
. it took 2 months for me to appreciate everything about this car except the 307 v8 and the emissions that needed MUCH tinkering with to keep it running right ... to keep this story short i was on a mission to find a pre 1972 olds v8 .i found a 1971 455 4bbl ( not the highest performer ) i cannot think of the codes on the heads or exact specs right now .
i have searched a fair amount and it seems to be all about how much hp one can get out of a 455 .... i would like to build a motor the is OVER built and under stressed that makes the most possible amount of torque( huge heavy car with high gears ) . the reason i would like torque is i do not have the budget or expertise to change the high gears and want to keep the overdrive tranny ( modded 200 metric to handle more power ) . i would appreciate anyone who could take the time to advise on the torque over hp build i would like to do . i apologize if this question has been asked before , i could not find much info on it .
The end result is to have a green , whitewalled , wire hubcap cruiser 98% of the time .
2% of the time embarrassing the loud obnoxious "tuner" hondas in my neighborhood (if possible )
October 5th, 2013, 06:55 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,402
Its pretty easy to bolt a 455 into those cars. The 71 is the 1st year of the compression drop but that probably a good thing with todays fuel. If the engine is sound (can you hear it run?) replace the timing chain, water pump, and any of the other hard to repair in the car parts.
The easiest way to install would be to drop it in with whatever accessory brackets are on the engine now (assuming its a complete engine) if not the 307 brackets will fit but will need some modifications. Because a 455 is basically a 350 block with a half inch of added deck height (deck height is the distance between the centerline of the crank and the top of the cylinder) any bracket that bolts to the timing cover area and the cylinder head will need minor mods. The lower alternator bracket either needs replaced with the proper 455 part or a spacer made to span the gap between the power steering pump and alt bracket. The A/C compressor bracket that bolts to the water pump will need longer mounting tabs welded on. Very easy stuff really. I would suggest getting 2 engine stands, mounting both engines, and transferring parts from one to the other.
The exhaust will be another minor hurdle. I'm pretty sure 68-72 A body headers will fit those cars. The trans crossmember will need to be modified for dual exhaust. Maybe you could modify a earlier crossmember to fit?
There is no cheap way to make a TH200 trans handle a 455! Don't even try. A TH350 trans is a bolt in, so would a TH400 if you modify the crossmember and driveshaft. Is the trans from the 455 donor car available?
Any 455 in good condition will have double the horsepower and probably 3 times the torque. Your biggest headache for showing the ricers your taillights will be keeping the tires from spinning! Unless the car has a limited slip rearend traction is going to be a major problem! I think this would be a great fun project. If it were me, put the absolute quietest mufflers on, keep the engine looking stock under the hood, and install some wire hubcaps and whitewall tires for the ultimate "old lady" look!
The easiest way to install would be to drop it in with whatever accessory brackets are on the engine now (assuming its a complete engine) if not the 307 brackets will fit but will need some modifications. Because a 455 is basically a 350 block with a half inch of added deck height (deck height is the distance between the centerline of the crank and the top of the cylinder) any bracket that bolts to the timing cover area and the cylinder head will need minor mods. The lower alternator bracket either needs replaced with the proper 455 part or a spacer made to span the gap between the power steering pump and alt bracket. The A/C compressor bracket that bolts to the water pump will need longer mounting tabs welded on. Very easy stuff really. I would suggest getting 2 engine stands, mounting both engines, and transferring parts from one to the other.
The exhaust will be another minor hurdle. I'm pretty sure 68-72 A body headers will fit those cars. The trans crossmember will need to be modified for dual exhaust. Maybe you could modify a earlier crossmember to fit?
There is no cheap way to make a TH200 trans handle a 455! Don't even try. A TH350 trans is a bolt in, so would a TH400 if you modify the crossmember and driveshaft. Is the trans from the 455 donor car available?
Any 455 in good condition will have double the horsepower and probably 3 times the torque. Your biggest headache for showing the ricers your taillights will be keeping the tires from spinning! Unless the car has a limited slip rearend traction is going to be a major problem! I think this would be a great fun project. If it were me, put the absolute quietest mufflers on, keep the engine looking stock under the hood, and install some wire hubcaps and whitewall tires for the ultimate "old lady" look!
October 5th, 2013, 07:04 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,402
I just re-read your questions, does the car have a 2004R (overdrive) trans or the dreaded TH200 (non-overdrive) trans? If its a 2004r that changes a few things. You will DEFINITELY need to install a mild shift kit, intermediate servo, and some minor wiring changes for the trans to have any chance to live. CK Performance has a good package deal of valve body, servo and governor. If the trans is in good condition it will handle a mild 455. When it needs repair rebuild it with a hardened forward clutch housing, and good band. The TV cable will need to be modified to work with the 455 carb. If you look at the throttle lever closely you will see where the factory pressed the throttle lever to the shaft. Grind of the swedged metal so you can remove the throttle lever from the computer carb, and transfer it to the 455 carb. weld the lever in place,and your done. Use the factory TV cable, brackets and other parts. Doing it this way copies the factory TV cable geometry.
October 5th, 2013, 11:07 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
hi matt,
thanks for the advise, that is all the stuff i need to know ahead of time!
o yeah the car is being repainted the factory dark green met.( i am a painter by trade), it has factory hubcaps and whitewalls ! also it IS the 200r4 and i am very fortunate to know a guy who builds some serious transmissions here in town (grand rapids,mi) who is willing to do some trading for a build . yeah as far as the quiet exhaust you already know exactly what i am trying to do ...hahahha . unfortunatly i do not have a donor car i bought that motor because it has already been cleaned and magnafluxed(spelling??) for cracks in the block and heads( crank and rods were inspected also and is ready to go back to the machine shop ) . as far as headers go , i am thinking of using the stock manifolds ( i made sure i got ALL the motor parts ) because i have had a hard time with header gaskets in the past . it is also a open differential (i believe) 7.5 rear end that most people with more experience than me told me it "has to go ", i hope not ..lol.... thanks again , greg
thanks for the advise, that is all the stuff i need to know ahead of time!
o yeah the car is being repainted the factory dark green met.( i am a painter by trade), it has factory hubcaps and whitewalls ! also it IS the 200r4 and i am very fortunate to know a guy who builds some serious transmissions here in town (grand rapids,mi) who is willing to do some trading for a build . yeah as far as the quiet exhaust you already know exactly what i am trying to do ...hahahha . unfortunatly i do not have a donor car i bought that motor because it has already been cleaned and magnafluxed(spelling??) for cracks in the block and heads( crank and rods were inspected also and is ready to go back to the machine shop ) . as far as headers go , i am thinking of using the stock manifolds ( i made sure i got ALL the motor parts ) because i have had a hard time with header gaskets in the past . it is also a open differential (i believe) 7.5 rear end that most people with more experience than me told me it "has to go ", i hope not ..lol.... thanks again , greg
October 6th, 2013, 06:02 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,402
If the engine is apart then that opens a lot more doors! Have your machinist set the bearing clearance on the loose side, that one of the keys to getting a BBO to stay together in my opinion.
That car should have a 8.5 rear-end. I learned to drive in my parents 83 Olds a thats what was under it. Shouldn't be hard to find a limited slip carrier for the peg-leg diff.
That car should have a 8.5 rear-end. I learned to drive in my parents 83 Olds a thats what was under it. Shouldn't be hard to find a limited slip carrier for the peg-leg diff.
October 6th, 2013, 07:10 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
yeah i have the original window sticker for the car right in front of me , it is a 8.5 not 7.5 ... 2.73 ratio h.d towing package ... my mistake ....
o yeah as far as the motor as i re read my original post i was not clear .. it is a complete long block ... minus distributor , carburetor,and accessories . if possible i want to keep cast iron heads and manifolds because i am a little limited on my build budget . it is my understanding nobody likes stock heads for these motors .
my actual goal is the most torque not peak horsepower and i do not care if falls on its face after 5000 rpms .
if it is do-able i would like to surpass 500 ft lbs of torque and( hopefully ) the transmission would be tuned to accommodate the engines characteristics . i am hunting around to find the most cost effective combo with compression , head flow , camshaft , ect ect by asking around and talking to folks that have already forgotten more than i know about olds engines ( like yourself )... thanks for the advise on things like the t.v. cable .... you may have saved me lots of headaches ... and the deck height of the engine ... all those little things people rarely mention !
o yeah as far as the motor as i re read my original post i was not clear .. it is a complete long block ... minus distributor , carburetor,and accessories . if possible i want to keep cast iron heads and manifolds because i am a little limited on my build budget . it is my understanding nobody likes stock heads for these motors .
my actual goal is the most torque not peak horsepower and i do not care if falls on its face after 5000 rpms .
if it is do-able i would like to surpass 500 ft lbs of torque and( hopefully ) the transmission would be tuned to accommodate the engines characteristics . i am hunting around to find the most cost effective combo with compression , head flow , camshaft , ect ect by asking around and talking to folks that have already forgotten more than i know about olds engines ( like yourself )... thanks for the advise on things like the t.v. cable .... you may have saved me lots of headaches ... and the deck height of the engine ... all those little things people rarely mention !
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Slater442
The Newbie Forum
14
November 23rd, 2012 11:29 PM
