Ces

Hey CO.
I'm currently building a 1970 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 455 engine for my 72 Cutlass Supreme.
I found and bought the correct 396021F block.
I dropped it a Gotellis Speed Shop in San Francisco. They're currently tearing it down and going through it.
I should hear back any day about what is good and what we need, as far as parts and even the block itself.
I bought this 455 for the block alone but it was nearly complete, minus a carb and other small parts.
Point being I may have good pistons, rods, cam, intake manifold and other things.

I suspect I will need new heads, intake manifold, pistons, Cam ,carburetor or EFI set up. Basically the works, or at least on the top end.

I'm hoping some knowledgeable people on this forum would be so kind as to advise me what I need for a mild street set up.
smooth idle, long-term dependability, and regular reliability are more important to me than winning races. however I am looking to take what was a balanced and blueprinted 1970 W-30 motor and get some increased performance out of it.

Please let me know what you have experience with and or what you would recommend for my application.

Fun71

Wait, you actually have a 1970 W-30 455, with the rare and outrageously expensive F heads, and you are wanting to replace them? Same for the W-455 intake manifold?

You should sell that entire engine to someone and use the money to buy a core and build it.

Ces

I will add that it was my original plan and genuine intention to rebuild this motor exactly as it came from the factory. with the F heads and the W 455 aluminum intake manifold and more. however these parts have become cost prohibitive. and the likely better performing modern aluminum parts like Edelbrock heads cost less than half of real F heads. so that's why I'm thinking of taking this thing beyond stock into more modern high-performance territory for parts resourcing...

Ces

At this time I'm only positive that I have the correct 1970 W 30 block casting number 396021F this is a very common block I think from 68 or 69 to 70 maybe 72. If I already had the F heads and the aluminum intake manifold that says Oldsmobile or Olds W 455 on it I would not be thinking about replacing them, no not at all.

Smitty275

It all depends on your budget. I've been specializing in the Olds for 30 years or so. If the short block is sound you could have the heads rebuilt and pop on a new intake manifold and carb along with a modern hydraulic flat tappet or hydraulic roller camshaft and have exactly what your looking for. Should the heads need replacing there is always the ProComp and Edelbrock heads to choose from.

Should the short block need bored there is an extensive array of forged pistons along with much improved aftermarket connecting rods to choose from. Even an aftermarket crankshaft. Basically anything you need is available to fill an empty block with dependable hardware.

Ces

And while it is a very common block, it is also the only block that was used to build the 1970 442 W 30 motor.

Smitty275

Actually it is the only block casting upon which ANY 455 cui. engine was built.

Ces

Yes, as with most things, it depends on budget.
I'd like to know the best options, regardless of price.
Then look again with value as a key component.

I Shoukd have said that the heads on my block are J "smogger" heads and I won't be using them. I have a quite a few good reasons why not.

And while I am aware that Edelbrock makes packages, I'm looking for some more details as to what heads, and why. From Edelbrock and other companies as well. What are the different benefits between the two types of cams?
Which setup really does what I'm after here?

Please tell me more if you'd be so kind....

cutlassefi

What Smitty said is correct. You DO have options but it's whatever your wallet will bear.
My '72 is EFI'd and I'll never go back to a carb but that's not for everybody. I'm currently doing a Procomp headed 455 for another CO member. First dyno session yielded 443hp and 508tq with 10:1 and a mild hyd roller with out of the box Procomps from Bernard Mondello. Should be a great street motor.
Hyd roller vs flat tappet is a personal and budgetary choice. Again personally I prefer the roller due to the lack of special oils and increased performance potential.
Use good pistons, i.e. Wiseco, CP, Icon. Throw the stock rods away, don't bother. Buy the Eagle rods, money well spent.
The rest (heads, cam size etc) will depend on your desired hp/tq level. EFI will add drivability and a more modern running quality no matter what.

There are many on here who will lend competent help. Ask away, we'll do what we can.

firefrost gold

The parts place has a new intake around 600 . Thats twice what a edelbrock performer will run. If looks mean that much to you could be worth it. The heads (pro comp or Edelbrock) can be cleaned up and painted to look more stock also . Looking forward in hearing what info you get .

Ces

I've seen others. One, is a variant. Casting # 396021FA. That was NEVER used to build any 1970 442 W-30's at the factories. And in my research, possibly at 442.com/engines I thought I saw more casting numbers for BB olds motors.
Maybe some were for 400ci blocks...
Pretty sure some were 455 as well.
I'm at work and can't look at the moment

Fun71

OK, I see now that you are wanting to build an engine similar to the 1970 W-30 using a core engine. From your post I thought you actually had a '70 W-30 engine and were building it.

FYI, the 455 block casting was the 396021F number. Some versions had the A at the end, and some versions has a serif F and others has a sans-serif F. All were 396021, though. Any other number was a different block (early 400, late 400, or 425).

Why are you hung up on "1970 442 W-30 455" engine? It sounds as if you are open to aftermarket heads and intake manifold, so then it would not be a W-30 engine. With modern components, you can make the same/more power and have much better driveability than the original W-30.

Ces

Right! That sounds familiar. About the block casting numbers.


Regarding the plan for this build, and to make a long story short,
I started building a 1970 442 W-30 motor. All correct. Down to original parts, nos or the best possible OEM style replacements.
Then I quickly learned those parts are cost prohibitive.
That brings me here and now, learning what parts are going to make even better and more affordable alternatives.

To say, the original plan has changed.
I'm now likely going to use parts like Edelbrock heads, intake manifold.
Maybe a Holley carb. Etc...

Never done this before and happy to hear people's experiences with different parts and SETUPS.

Amen

Ces

awesome, thanks.
So I'm trying to figure out what heads, intake manifold, carb, cam, pistons, rods and other parts will make a smooth idle, dependable, torque heavy crusier. As I said, I'm not racing. I want my engine to be reliable, but powerful.

So, at this time, the heads are some of the most important parts on my list I want to nail down.

But I'm looking for as much info as I can find, about the whole build.
regarding parts, I mean.
I'm all ears and,
Thanks again, CO!

Ces

Hey all, please recommend some heads for this build.
I'm thinking aluminum. Mild street. Not to repeat myself but...
Well there you go, I already have.
C'mon CO! I know you're full of awesome knowledge.

Smitty275

I'd go with street/strip ported ProComp heads, Edelbrock air gap intake and an 850 Holley or QJ on the top end. Factory or Eagle crankshaft, Scat or Eagle rods, and Wiseco ProTrue piston kit, ATI balancer and flex plate for the rotating assembly. Then toss in a nice custom ground hydraulic roller camshaft.

cutlassefi

I thiught I already did. Have you changed your goal and budget?
Depending on power level out of the box Procomps may be all you need as per my previously described build.

70cutty

Both Mark and Smitty know their stuff. Listen to what they say.
If it was me I would talk to Smitty about the Procomps, he has a great deal on them in various stages, talk to Mark-cutlassefi about the cam and maybe some of the other engine components. You won't go wrong by taking their advice.

Hey Smitty, just out of curiosity why Air Gap(vs. Performer) on a street build?