macrover

I ran across a 67 Toro parts car with 389244 D stamped on the block (425 with matching C heads and valve covers). The intake and carb are missing but most of the other stuff under the hood is there.

I'd hate to see this engine get scrapped knowing I could have saved what's left of a rocket power plant.

I'm going to step into uncharted waters here...

I was thinking of using the C heads on my Dads 455 (Ga heads) if they'll fit or sale them.

What's a set of C heads and a 425 core/crank worth (providing nothing is cracked)?

Would it be worth my time to remove the heads and/or engine?

Basically, if the heads(engine) are(is) desirable to have then I'll go through the efforts otherwise I'll let the parts sit with the car.

Oldsmaniac

The c casting heads if original are big valve heads. Worth grabbing and will work on a 455. Engine is a good one too with large lifters (expensive) and has modern cam angle. Nothing special other than that and the crank is forged.

Run to Rund

The heads are no big advantage for the 455, but the 425 engine is a good choice, and the oil pan is good if you heat the hump with a rosebud and flatten it. It holds 1 quart more, and has a nice skimmer baffle on the passenger side. The .921" diameter lifters are more expensive in hydraulic, not available in roller except stock diesel lifters, but in flat tappet mechanical they allow a more radical profile if you want the engine for racing.

macrover

Hmmm, interesting tidbits to know.

I wouldn't be using it for racing, just a street car maybe with some HP/torque.

I have to speak with the guy that's parting it out and see if he's letting the engine/heads go. I've seen people wanting to sell the engine with the car and I'm not looking for a toro project, especially this one.

Oldsmaniac - the engine appears to be original but I can't tell right now. Everything still has the red paint, what's left of it. Not saying it's the original paint but it could pass as though it is. TBD

Rund - providing the guy parts with the engine/head and the block and heads get a clean bill of health, would it be beneficial to just leave the 425 as is?

Oldsmaniac

The 67 Toro original engine color is light blue metallic. Not to say that it is not a Toro engine but I would be wary since it has been painted red or possibly swapped.

macrover

Gotcha, I wondered about the red but didn't know for sure.

I'll definitely keep my guard up.

geckonz08

dont get hung up on the "c" heads . A to G heads all flow within 5% or thereabouts and if work is done on them that will be what dictates.

The .921 lifters are more expensive but in terms of a rebuild cost they aren`t too bad. There are people on this site who sell them.

The 67 425 has to be one of the better engines available

macrover

I'm with you geckonz.

I ran across this engine and it's not often you "stumble" upon one.

Being a local find I figured ahh what the heck, let me see if this thing is worth having.

Soooo, how difficult would it be to drop a 425 in a 73-77 cutlass?

MrRocket

I put a 425 in my 1974 Cutlass. Fairly straight forward to install. Just have to change the Toro stuff to Cutlass stuff. For example: You'll need to change the motor mounts as the Toro doesn't use the same type, need new exhaust manifolds, oil filter adapter is different, the water pump is different also, you'll need one for your Cutlass. Use the Toro fan as it is a seven blade instead of six. The oil pan will work as it is. You'll need the flywheel from the 425 too as the bolt pattern is different on later flywheels/cranks. You get 385 horses in this motor as opposed to the 180 ish in a stock Cutlass of our years! Big difference!

macrover

MrRocket,

Thanks for sharing that info, its the type of feedback I'm looking for.

I'll make a list and see if all the extra stuff you mentioned is still on the car.

...still trying to get the guy to sell the engine without the car.

MrRocket

Thanks Macrover, I saw that your car has a 350. You'll want to use the brackets from your 350 on the 425 too. Like the the alternator bracket ect., and the power steering pump will change over too. The 425 is basically the same block as the 455 just different crank and pistons. So since the 455 came in the earlier years of our Cutlasses the swap is easy and it fits like it belongs there! One more thing, when you rebuild it, use a 455 harmonic balancer and have it balanced. They don't make the 425 balancer as it came in a couple of years only.

507OLDS

The engine IS worth getting,but I would leave the Ga heads on the 455.
You could keep the 425 together,or part it.It has a forged crank,7" rods,and good head cores.

macrover

Thanks for the information. I'd be up against the wall if I didn't have it.

So, leave the Ga heads on the 455 even if I were to part out the 425?

I'd think a 455 with C heads would be a better performer without machining the Ga heads to spruce up the 455. Dunno, I'm new to this arena.

507OLDS

You're not going to gain anything by swapping your GA's for the C's.You can get the same amount of performance out of either pair of heads.

macrover

Ahhh, ok. I was told the Ga's were lower compression/small valve heads.

As mentioned, I'm not hung up on the C's by any means. I guess you, generally speaking, hear more buzz about C's and D's.

Geckonz stated that A to G heads flow within 5% of each other which would also apply to G/Ga, right?

Oldsmaniac

The G heads have hardened seats for unleaded gas...

macrover

Unleaded gas...not a bad thing considering the gas prices! I have to use premium in my current vehicles.

A 67 Toro 425 and a 72 Vista Cruiser 455...hmmm, maybe I should invest in a gas can to keep in my trunk.

From the responses, it seems I'd be fine with either engine.

507OLDS

The G/Ga heads have the same combustion chamber cc as a C-head,so there is no difference in compression.The earlier 455's had more compression due to the pistons having a much smaller dish.
When working on a set of iron heads,I prefer to start with a small-valve set.That way the seat can be cut & shaped better.If the seats are mint,I leave them in there.I haven't had any issues running the older seats with today's gas.The heads in the car pictured below have the original seats,and it seems to be working just fine.

macrover

Excellent point and well received. That being said I'm leaning toward keeping the 455 stock as it sits and if the 425 lands in my garage, I'll deal with it accordingly.

Speaking of your car, it's a sweet ride!