Dream67Olds442

Please don't crucify me for another oil thread, but I searched and didn't see anything on this particular topic. Haggerty has had a refinery specially formulate a motor oil for classic cars. There are 3 multi-viscosity weights available in 6-packs: 10W30 semi synthetic $55, 20W50 semi synthetic $55, and 15W50 full synthetic for $70. All 3 varieties contain 1600ppm ZDDP. I have read in multiple discussions, that regardless of what brand or weight oil you choose, your overall oil concentration should contain at least 1200ppm of ZDDP for these classic car motors. I do not think these prices are unreasonably high when you take into account you would not need to purchase a ZDDP additive separately if you used this oil. I also do not think Haggerty would stake their reputation on formulating and marketing a sub-standard product. I am considering trying this in my 67 442 400ci next spring.

I am wondering if any of you have heard about this Haggerty formulation, and better yet whether any of you have actually used it? I am also interested in any opinions on the best weight to use. Right now I am leaning towards the 20W50 because our summers are very warm here in St. Louis. I am open to any thoughts or opinions on the subject. Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions
Ralph

Kennybill

The zinc content sounds good, price is okay. I'd use the 20W50 out of the choices also.

joe_padavano

I'm not sure you really need 1600 ppm once the cam is broken in. 25 years ago the limit was 1000 ppm and cams were fine. It's the new 800 ppm that can cause problems. In any case, there are a lot of "hot rod" oils with over 1000 ppm that cost less than the Hagerty price. I like the Gibbs Driven oil, which you can get in 10W40. I'm hesitant to use 20W50 in a street motor. Olds recommended 10W30 in the 1960s, and oil quality and protection is much better now than it was then.

Dream67Olds442

KennyBill and Joe, thanks a bunch for your comments and suggestions they are much appreciated. Based on other recommendations I've read, I was going to run the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (street version) in my 442 because folks were saying it had a high ZDDP concentration, but I can't find a specification that states what the ppm concentration actually is. I want to see it in print, after all I am from the "Show Me State". I've had really good luck running Valvoline 20W50 full synthetic motorcycle oil in the 1854cc and 1811cc air cooled v-twins in my bikes, so I think I'll do some more searching for the detailed Valvoline VR1 specs before making a decision. Thanks again.
Ralph

Dream67Olds442

Hey guys,
I went out and searched some more for a spec sheet on the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil and found one. It can be viewed and downloaded at the following Valvoline site: https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1
Bottom line, it states the oil has a ZDDP concentration of 1400 ppm, and says it is fully compatible in both racing and street vehicles, with flat tappet or roller cam motors. Decisions, decisions!

cfair

Temps here in the SF Bay Area run from ~30F in dead of winter up to 105 for a couple of weeks each summer lately.

I’ve been using 20/50 Dino oil for years I think valvoline VR1.

Should I be using 10/40 instead?

thanks
Chris

Dream67Olds442

Hi Chris,
I am not qualified to give you an answer to your question. If you go back to the 442 sub forum page and read the 2nd thread below this one titled "442 400ci rebuild hp gain", you will see that I just purchased my first classic car, a 1967 442. I started this string because I am trying to decide what oil I want to run in my motor come spring time. Specifically I was looking for any experience the guys may have had with the new Hagerty formulated oils. Joe and KennyBill who previously commented within this string have much more experience than I have. I have to say however I would have to give considerable weight to Joe's comment regarding Oldsmobile's original 1960's recommendation of running 10w30. Valvoline only makes their VR1 Racing Oil 10w30 (high ZDDP) in full synthetic and a case of 6 can be purchased right now on Amazon for $66. In contrast, the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil 20w50 (high ZDDP also) is conventional oil and a case can be purchased on Amazon for $33, or half the price. Which weight to run, I don't know for sure because I'm too inexperienced with these classic car motors. Since it stays fairly warm in your area, and with the quality of modern oil like Joe pointed out, it probably doesn't matter between the couple of weights that have been discussed here. What is probably much more important is the high ZDDP content of the Valvoline VR1 oil, and of course keeping the oil changed regularly. I know my car will not get driven 3000 miles in a season and will only need one oil change a year. With this being the case, the cost of the oil and a high quality filter will not be a driving factor in my decision on what oil and weight to use.

oldcutlass

Valvoline VR1 is available in a conventional 10w30, click on the Amazon link below.

Olds64

I never heard of the Hagerty brand oil. I read recently that Amazon is marketing motor oil now. I can't comment on its quality.

I use Rotella T4 15W-40 in my 86 f250 since it has a diesel engine. I can buy it reasonably at Sam's Club so I put it in my Oldsmobiles as well. Check it out!

https://www.samsclub.com/p/rot-t4-tr...lp_product_1_1

http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

Dream67Olds442

Thanks to oldcutlass and Olds64 for your replies, much appreciated! Really appreciated the correction on the VR1 10w30 conventional oil! Good to know it's out there as an option.
Thanks,
Ralph

joe_padavano

The factory recommended 10W30, with 10W40 as an option. Higher viscosity oil increases internal HP loss with no offsetting benefit. People use 50 weight to bandaid excessive bearing clearances.

11971four4two

A friend of mine bought the Hemmings motor oil for his 442's


https://www.hemmings.com/classic-oil

Dream67Olds442

Joe, thanks for your response, and I agree with you up to a point. You said higher weight oils lubricate to the detriment of HP, with no other added benefit other than to compensate for excessive bearing tolerances, or other excessive engine component tolerances. I respectfully disagree on this point. Engineering studies show heavier weight oils retain their lubricating properties better than lower weight oils of the same quality under high stress/high temperature conditions. This is a key factor on why heavier weight oils exist for motors that regularly operate under high stress (racing) or high temperature (extremely warm climates) conditions. Do most of our motors operate under these high stress/high temperature conditions, I don't think so, although some of our members in the desert southwest may beg to differ on the high temperature condition. This is why I noted your recommendation (per Olsmobile's OEM recommendation) earlier in this thread, that 10w30 may very well be the logical and best choice for oil weight in our motors. One other point I would like to bring up that no one else has yet, is the following. With all other things being equal, studies show that the majority of engine wear occurs immediately upon engine start-up before the oil is efficiently being pumped through the system. Lower weight oils flow easier (lower viscosity) than heavier weight oils and upon start-up flow more quickly to critical engine components than heavier weight oils. How much more quickly, I have no idea, it may be a second or two, or it may be only be a fraction of a second, but even if it is only a fraction of a second, over time there would be more resultant wear at start-up using a heavier weight oil. I think you need to consider this point, along with the predominant operating conditions of your motor when choosing the oil weight for your specific application. I would find it really interesting to speak with a reputable mechical/chemical engineer at Valvoline or any other major oil manufacturer to get their take on this issue. I will try to do that in the near term.

For those who have not heard about the new Haggerty ZDDP rich (1600 ppm) oil formulated in multiple weights for classic car motors, here is a direct link if you would like to check it out:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/0...-classic-cars/

Olds64

To clarify, the linked motor oil is marketed by Hemmings not Hagerty. Here is a good article on motor oil from Hagerty.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...07/classic-oil

Dream67Olds442

Olds 64,
Thanks so much for clarifying my error and letting folks know it is Hemmings and not Hagerty that is marketing the new oil. Very much appreciated!!! That's why you guys are the best!
Ralph

Guy Fillinger

I had contacted mobil about their 15-50 racing oil as their zinc content and if it would be safe for flat tappet cams. I was told that yes their oil was safe for those cams. Also when I attended the corvette driving school they told us the first thing they do with a car they get in, they change out the oil to Mobil-1 15-50 because of the hard driving and temps. in Nevada. All that being said I find Walmart carries it in 5 quart jugs for about $23.00 I run this oil in all my cars and truck (Cummins Diesel) and have not had One problem. Pay what you want but I like to keep as much money in my pocket so I can buy parts from you guys.

Dream67Olds442

Guy, thanks a bunch for your response. I've been running Mobil 1 in my passenger car and truck for years with never a problem. I had not heard of a Mobil 1 solution yet for our older flat tappet cam motors. I found the spec sheet for the Mobil 1 full synthetic 15W50 on the Mobil website. Under the "Applications" section of the spec sheet it states, "for high temperature/high stress, racing, or flat tappet applications". The spec sheet also tells you the ZDDP content is 1300 ppm. The oil looks like a winner all around, having a low initial viscosity, high viscosity under stress, and more than the recommended ppm of ZDDP to support our flat tappet cam motors. As you astutely pointed out, it can be had for $25 for a 5-gallon jug at Walmart. Sounds like a real deal, so I have to say thanks again.
Ralph

11971four4two

5 gallon for $25 wow

Guy Fillinger

If you guys charged less for your parts I could afford more expensive oil!!!!! Snicker Snicker

Dream67Olds442

I'm a dork, I meant to write 5 quart jug. Sorry about that!

11971four4two

Hey
All the best to you
I Know you meant well
Sorry if made you feel like that

Dream67Olds442

No offense taken whatsoever! I enjoy the comraderie of all the guys on this forum who have have a common interest. In just the short time I have been a member, I have learned so much from you guys, and I'm sure I'll learn much, much more!
Regards,
Ralph

BlueCalais79

I've been using the Hemmings Motor oils for a few years now, I use the full synthetic for my blue Calais as that car's 260 motor was rebuilt in 1992 and I was using Mobil 1 since day one. So it's always had full synthetic oil and I wanted the zinc but I didn't want to go with a blend. This motor now has over 70,000 miles and runs so well I will probably never put a 350 in this car. I'll never crack 20 second in the 1/4 mile with it but so be it.

I'm using Hemmings Synthetic blend in my 79 Hurst Olds (113,000 miles) , 79 Cutlass Brougham (58,000 miles) and 69 Camaro (112,000 miles) as they all have miles on them using no synthetic oil initially; I thought a blend would probably be better.

I've had great results. These are all such low horsepower motors that loss of HP has no real bearing on my decision to use this stuff. It's all good. I'm after the protection this oil affords.

Dream67Olds442

BlueCalais79 - Thank you for the detailed response. It was good to hear from someone who has used the Hemming's oil extensively with no issues encountered. I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Right now I am leaning towards using the Mobil 1 full synthetic 15w50 that contains 1300ppm ZDDP for the Zinc our older motors need. The specification sheet for this particular variety of Mobil 1 also said it is designed for high temperature/high stress, racing, and flat tappet cam applications. For my specific application in St. Louis where the summers are very warm with much of July and August having highs in the mid-90's, with some in the 100's, I like the thought of the 50w on the upper end of the viscosity scale. It certainly doesn't hurt to know this variety of Mobil 1 is readily available online at Walmart for $25 for a 5-quart jug. I haven't checked yet whether the Walmarts that are close to me actually have it on their shelves. I have used Mobile 1 full synthetic in my 2000 Ford XLT 4X4 (5.6L) starting immediately after the break in period. Throughout the years, the truck has been used to pull large boats, travel trailers, and dual axle trailers with heavy loads. It has 95,000-miles on it now and doesn't use a drop of oil between changes. With a testament like that, I don't know why I wouldn't try the Mobil 1 when they make a variety specifically designed for my application conditions.
Ralph