Hello, I 'm new to this forum. Have a check list of cars and a 1970 442 W 30 is on this list. I have a Boss 302 and an AAR so I know that each car Brand has its unique codes, VIN decoding, Parts etc. Ford has Marti reports so without build sheets your ok. AAR's have build sheets but many belong to other cars so sometimes you may have one but its not to your car. But an AAR has other unique codes like the options plate(critical) that make up for a lack of documents. That leads me to my question....looking at a W 30 but its missing a lot of docs - no Protecto plate or buildsheet. From a Block vin 32M and body plate 34487LAN it seems to check and it does have the 256 carb and other parts(manual Disc brakes). The front fenders are all correct including the webbing on the hood. Valuation according to several tools puts drivers around $ 65K to $75K and this is a 4 spd. Should I be really careful since no protecto plate/other docs? How much does lack of documentation hurt its value and ease of selling? ( i know the purists will weigh in on this but not looking for $ 100 plus 442). Does a rocket report address the lack of docs or much like Govier reports for chrysler ...not change perception regarding value? seems like rallye red (special paint) and Ivory is pretty common - does Color combo really effect 442 prices? Thanks in advance

 

A 70 442 will be confirmed by the VIN starting 344 so that confirms the car's body is a 442 unless someone changed the VIN (re-bodied) The VIN or partial VIN can also be found behind the heater box on the firewall if you wanted to try and verify original body. The Vin for a 70 W30 should start: 344--0M------. All W30 cars will have the M for Lansing built car. The 0 represents 1970. The W30 part is harder to verify without original bill of sale, window sticker or what most people have these days since that stuff is rare is a broadcast card with the matching fisher body number (cowl tag). The broadcast card will have the body number with a W30 stamp although there have supposedly been some highly documented W30 cars without the stamp? You will most likely not find a build sheet in a W30 car because it seems Lansing tossed them at the end of the line? The broadcast card can be found under seats, carpets and behind seat backs. The VIN on the engine block should start 30M not 32M. Perhaps the engine block has been changed? A 32M would mean a 1972 Olds motor built in MI. You will also find the VIN derivative on the trans if original. The problem is without a broadcast card or other docs, hard to find W30 parts can be added to a 442 to make it seem the real deal. Depending on how nice the car is the value is hard for me to estimate but figure W30 docs on a W30 car is worth 15k-30k? Prices seem to be all over the place on cars depending on desirability/options. Clones can get close to same money for some cars but usually solid docs seem to be the most consistent.
P.S.
A rocket report should say same thing
Webbing on the hood?

 

1972 w30 will have an X in the Vin. Other years need original docs for verification. Any part (some w altered numbers) can be added to a 442.

no docs = buy it like a 442.

 

For clarity....a W-30 will have an X in the VIN, but an X in the VIN does not make it a W-30 ?

 

The OP is talking about a 1970 W30 right?

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

Thought I missed something

 

OP, refer to the following link and specifically post #63 regarding the Rocket Report. Minore does not authenticate W cars without documentation; he will issue an opinion letter, which, in my opinion, is not worth much, since he does not grant the car W status.....

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-157150/page2/

 

Yes, webbing or screen on hood underside covering the W25 opening fresh air scoop which I'm guessing was factory to keep particles from entering the engine bay from outside. Is white/ivory interior in the 442 world desirable.....lately in the Boss 302 world white interiors have become the latest craze

 

i think U=bb auto, V=bb std, X= w30

Yes i added the 72 because if you dont have docs you have a 442 except in 72 where no docs are needed for a W but a 442 isnt always what it seems

 

This.

Also, the rocket report is not documentation. It is one man's opinion of a car and is not considered proof of anything. Documentation is typically considered a broadcast card and also hopefully a window sticker showing W-30 option. These are being faked now, so a lot of it comes down to looking for specific things on cars, knowing more than the guy selling it, and getting a gut feeling. Watch out for professional car salesmen.

 

To be certain, a rocket report is not to be considered official Oldsmobile documentation, or a substitution for it when authenticating W cars. That never has been the intent of the rocket report.

It is however good support documentation when other Oldsmobile documentation is present, and it comes from an individual that has been associated with W cars for years. Is this third-party report without error, certainly not?

Opinions of Stephen Minore and his Rocket Report certainly fluctuates against a moving approval scale at any given time, but in cases where individuals (as in the OP of this thread) need input from someone familiar with W cars, the report certainly provides a purpose since many of the official Oldsmobile docs are now sold, as noted. Plus, to the novice, it is not difficult to trip one’s self during inspection. So, having input from another source can be beneficial to a buyer that may not be well versed in the W car.

For those that possess the knowledge all things W car, certainly a rocket report would not be a necessity for those individuals. However, to others, the report adds another level of assurance to the process of authentication, nothing more, nor less.

 

Well that says conclusively it is NOT the original W-30 engine.

A 1970 W-30 would have F heads, but those could be bolted onto any block.

 

Discussions here involving 72 W30 have muddied the water a bit. We should really just limit this to the fact that your engine came from a Lansing built 1972 olds. One of thousands made and this certainly rules out a matching number engine. As far as added value to the W-30 package, you have lost the largest most important aspect of the W-30 package. The rest of the car is really no different than a 4 speed 442.

As others have said, without documentation you should consider this car a 442. Many, Many fake W-30s are out there. Do not get burned. Ralley Red with an Ivory interior is a beautiful color combination. Not especially rare, but even these days fraudsters swap trim tags to complete a built up faker.

tc

 

The “screen” under the hood is for radio noise suppression and a W-30 with no documentation is just a “442”.

 

Maybe you can elaborate on this?

 

Its actually in your repair manual.

 

I agree with everything you said. A true W car was special. Special engine parts. Balanced is huge. I have said it more than a few times here. A factory W car runs sooo much better than a regular 442 or 350 Cutlass. Once that is stripped away. It is no longer the same car that it was built as.

Great points made in this thread.

Side rant. I am so sick of people jacking up Oldsmobile prices by overpaying for a whatever with whatever. People get at me with so what. The so what is that original cars mean nothing. Oh look what a pretty color etc... It has killed the hobby for me. I grew up during the times. I have driven factory W-31's and factory W-30's. I always appreciated an original car with blemishes and an original compared to a fake whatever. People throwing Stupid Money at these fake cars are going to eat it hard. Go get it.

 

Okay..knowing that the people writing maintenance publications are not immune to making mistakes, I'll assume someone inadvertently applied the function of the under hood insulation used on a non-OAI car to the OAI screen as well. Next time I'm thumbing through my service manual, I'll look for this.

tc

 

Bossgold, what you need to verify is a broadcast card. These were stashed randomly throughout the interior on some cars. Between seat springs, back panels on bucket seats, under the dash ect. It will show the W30 option as shown.

 

In my 1970 lansing built cutlass supreme convertible. I found it’s broadcast card underneath the rear seat bottom attached to the springs. It was in tough shape but still legible after 50+ years. Worth checking, however you say the block stamp says 32m that would devalue the car immensely and I would be apprehensive about the true originality of the car

 

For clarity, IIRC the under hood screen on the fiberglass W hood is for radio noise suppression, not engine compartment noise. Not 100% sure that I’m correct but that’s the way I remember it.

​​​​​​….

 

@bccan pretty sure your correct now that I think about it....that's why my AAR cuda Radio antenna was moved to the Rear quarter passenger side by the factory because the hood is fiberglass as well. needed because of the fiberglass hood’s inability to shield it from ignition system electronic interference from the ignition distributor and spark plug wires....

 

At least they didn't go the Corvette route.

 

I never heard of the screen under the ram air hood being for radio noise. It is so debris and leaves don't get sucked into the air cleaner. The 3 tabs screwed to the cowl that have jagged edges rest on the metal edge of the hood are supposed to help with that.

 

I am considering putting my w30 on bring a trailer this spring. It is quite possibly the most documented one out there. I say that due to the fact I have the window sticker, invoice reciepts, original owner who is a dear friend of mine is still alive and I have day 2 racing videos of it in action proving what it is. Videos depict track records driving in the pits, shenanigans and kissing of trophy girls etc. The best part is the original block has never left the cradle. Its special order nugget gold, black bench 4 speed. No ps, no pb but power windows (there is a reason for that) . If interested you could pm me for my info. Keep in mind this wouldnt be in the price point you speak of. It's not a show car but a well preserved one with some original paint yet. The provenance speaks for itself.

 

That’s awesome!

 

Ohhh.. be still my heart.....

 

Now, that's the type car everyone wishes for.....

 

I'd like to know the power windows story.

 

he always had a dog with him so it was what made sense. Also always had 4 speed cars and a bench seat for the ladies to be close. When i first met him he didn't know what the w30 entailed. He just wanted a go fast 442.

 

Here is a link to 25 minutes of condensed 1970-1974 footage of the car in action. I had his old 8mm videos (no sound) converted into a DVD.

 

Cool old video…

 

Loved watching that, thanks for posting. Looked like the "The Goat" met a sad demise at the end.

 

What an absolutely beautiful car. See This is what I love. Awesome car. Thank you for sharing.

White stripes on a Nugget Gold car is one of one damn near one. I love what factory W cars really were/are.

 

Beautiful video! Especially the Old couple in their Model T in the parade.