musclecarjoe

I just went to look at what I was told was a 1969 W30 4 speed but I'm unsure. It had the red fenderwells, the bracing between the fender and the radiator, the intake ducts and tubing, front and rear sway bars, boxed rear control arms, and the VIN was 344 and M for Lansing. All the parts looked to be original and the car hasn't been on the road in 15 years. It also had D heads and the correct block casting. I couldn't find a build sheet and the block pad under the driver side head was a virgin. Up until this point I'm thing the car is a real W30 but then I looked at the front brakes, they were manual but they were drums. I thought all W30's were manual disc. The car also only had the Tic Tock Tach but no other gauges, instead it had idiot lights. The carb had been changed so that was no help and I couldn't see the numbers on the distributor.
If it wasn't for the drum brakes and the lack of a Ralley Pack I would have taken the car home.
Am I wrong & did I just pass on a real W30?
Thanks, Joe

dnmfranco

gauges have nothing to do w detecting a real w-30 or not as they were still an option, someone could have installed tach at later date

old myth, no discs were an option as well and was not standard equipment on a W-30, standard was drum brakes

so possibly without the dealer invoice no way to really verify as the W option was not put on broad cast cards in 68/69

dnmfranco

forgot to mention is a key indicator which commonly gets looked over is does it have a screw w a small plastic clamp over heater box. This holds the extended hose for the windshield wiper reservoir.

Also dist should be a 1111933
carb if not there that is not unusual a lot of issues w the original 2954's

also should be m-21 none other if manual
rear ratio 342 391 or less common 433
these were the only ratios available in 69

wmachine

So you did pass on what could still be an original W30, with standard drums and no TTT. Being a 4-spd as Dean says, there is no way to positively id it without some form of paperwork. Nothing on the car will do it. Which is unfortunate for cars like that, as they could be original W30s and no way to prove it. It depends on how confident you are and how important positive proof is. If it has a VIN matched engine and trans, personally I'd be very inclined to go with it if the "supporting cast" looks good. Again, it depends on who you want to convince.

allyolds68

Is the car in Canada?

Octania

Manual drums were used on my '68 W30. First time I had EVER seen that on an Olds.
So, it's pretty rare, and supporting evidence of W-ness. There is little reason for any other buyer to order MANUAL DRUMS. That's crazy. Ask anyone who has driven these "darn near adequate" brakes.

Get it, make sure all the right parts are there, and it *WILL BE* a W-30, and no one can prove otherwise.

Oh and ck for that washer reservoir line support / hole

joe_padavano

Short answer, yes.

musclecarjoe

Thanks for all the info.
I had all the numbers with me to check the carb and distributor but the carb was gone and the distributor numbers weren't visible.
I never knew about the screw for the washer so I'll have to check that out.
My original thinking was it would have taken a lot of effort for someone to change those parts over but when I couldn't verify those key items I figured it was risky.
What confuses me is that there were no special intakes or heads. I thought the build sheet had W29 or something on it but I couldn't find the build sheet anyway.
The car is rough but very restorable. It looks like it has all the original body panels. Quarters, trunk, doors, and floors are all decent. Passenger fender is good and both bumpers pretty straight. Driver fender is shot (rust) and so is the hood and top of the cowl. Frame is scaly but solid (no soft spots). Did the original shifter say 442 it? I might go back but not sure what I should pay. From what you guys are saying, even if I found the build sheet on top of the tank it wouldn't prove anything and I'm really only interested in the car if its a W30.
Thanks, Joe

allyolds68

$5k if the heads are good and the OAI is all there. Yes the shifter should say 442. Don't bother dropping the tank. You're not going to find any build sheet.

dnmfranco

yes it would say 442
yes unless a dealer invoice or window sticker is present
although if it was delivered to Canada then you could find out everything up there
if the hole is not there above heater not a w-30

were scoops there?

Octania

But, again, if the hole gets put there whether 40 yrs ago or tomorrow, and it has D heads and OAI and ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT MAKE SUCH A CAR A W-30, then, by definition, it IS a W-30.

Ck the glovebox for protecto-plate- it could happen. In that, the engine [and trans?] codes will be listed.

musclecarjoe

Yes, The scoops are there.

musclecarjoe

If I could buy the car for $5000 (IF) but I'm buying it for all its worth than it isn't really worth buying (to me). It seems strange that the only way to verify the car is to have the dealer invoice or window sticker.

dnmfranco

that's the 68/69 W world
its a frustrating one

If you could get the car for 5000 and its numbers matching regardless whether proof is there for a w-30 or not that still is a good price.

halfmoontrail

At a minimum, a replacement block - I'd be checking the casting date on block and heads to see if it matches up with car build date.

My previous '70 442 sport coupe (not W-30) was manual drum brakes - less expensive when new.

Steve

allyolds68

Welcome to 68-69 Lansing built Oldsmobiles. Build sheets were thrown in the trash at the end of the line. That was the procedure and by all accounts they stuck to it.


If it isn't documented the way I always look at it is the car should be worth no more than the sum of it's parts. Heads are worth about $2500, rear $500, tranny $300, block & crank $200. Maybe another grand in misc parts including the 442 body.


If for some reason you choose to pass on this car there are certainly those here that will be interested. Like Dean said, there are specific things that were done to W30's & W31's that many people that clone them don't know about. You generally need an unrestored car to verify this though.

musclecarjoe

Have you ever heard of an unstamped block that was original? The block and heads were the correct numbers and they didn't look like they were ever apart but the car is 45 years old. I really do think the car is a real W30 but it sucks I can't absolutely prove it.

joe_padavano

It's not impossible, but highly unlikely, as the VIN derivative stamp on the block was a federal requirement. More likely is that the short block was replaced early in the car's lifetime, as the long-stroke 400 motors tended to get wounded early. I doubt you could tell the difference between a 45-year-old original long block and one that was put together with a factory replacement short block say, 42 years ago or so. The "correct" numbers are irrelevant, as there are lots of "correct" castings for these motors. The key will be the casting dates. They obviously must be before the build date of the car. Usually castings within one month prior are common, however up to 90 days or so prior is not uncommon.

halfmoontrail

Well put, Joe. That what I was thinking, and heads would be the fastest way to check dates versus cowl tag.

joe_padavano

Chances are that the D heads are the original heads, simply bolted to a replacement short block, so the casting date on the heads SHOULD be consistent with the cowl tag build date. It's the block casting that would be different.