Howdy! I've recently entered this part of the auto community with buying and fixing up a 1971 Cutlass Supreme!


I'm facing a bit of an issue and I've been looking at this forum for a while, trying to see if any one else has similar issues and how I can diagnose it but I think its best I just get my foot in the door and post it myself.
This car was/is a bit of a mess and it's been a learning experience but I've always wanted a classic!



So I have the 350 Rocket w/ AC. Due to time constraints with the fix up for a mechanical inspection, (I'm in Rural Quebec and the car is from Ontario.) I'm running Moog 5390s in the front, they fit, they're stock height but they're not rated for the AC.
She also has 245/60R15s all around.
I'm also aware the grille is from a 72, that'll be changed soon. Lots of fitments with the chrome that'll all be ironed in time.

So the biggest issue I'm having so far is the front being really low and leaning to major rubbing on the passenger side when I have someone riding shotgun.
- If I drive alone, no issues at all.
- I'm running 245/60R15s on all wheels, though I'm considering running 215/65R15s in the front.
- My passenger side wheel is closer to the fender than the other side is.


- Frame damage hasn't been noticed with the 3 dudes that looked under her and since I'm new to this, I don't know what I'm looking for but I'm aware of the infamous Chevy Lean the A-Body has.

So this is my stance, looks great but the front looks low especially with these tires



And the wheels themselves, sorry for the glare.
First, the right side. The problematic side.
I've been having some major rubbing on the chrome here with a passenger.


And this is the driver's side much more clearance.

After it was aligned, no more shims could be taken out of the driver's side to bring the right wheel closer
My fender is kinda sticking out towards the bottom as you'll see but it fits fine everywhere else, I don't think its the issue but it's another thing I noticed!

I've been scrambling to figure out what the hell to do to fix or atleast alleviate this to bring folks on rides before the winter hits and my thought of solutions so far are:
- Buy 350 w/ AC coils, if I can find any.
- Try the lower sized tires to see if it improves, my gut is unsure about this one.
- Coilovers, expensive!
- Lift kit? For an inch?
- Refit the fender?
- This custom rod thing my old man mentioned.
- Fender roll up
- Big Block coils

but I'm not entirely sure what's is or what combination is causing this.
I've heard from frame damage to checking bushings that hold the body (The car has been mechanically inspected and certified.)

I don't know anyone else that owns one of these and I'm posting here to ask you guys for advice. It'd be super appreciated!

 

That doesn't guarantee proper functionality under certain conditions.

Your front rims seem to stick out considerably more than normal. Then add on that the tires are 2 inches wider than factory...



Below is how the wheel should look, in relation to the fender.



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...le-cutlass-17/

 

Oh it absolutely doesn't, I know that!

I believe my Super Stock IIIs(?) are offset as well. I'd like to stick with the 15s but I'm open to suggestions!

 

I run 245/60s all around. The only rubbing that I have encountered is with the front anti-sway bar at full lock. No fender rubbing. I will probably switch to 245/70 when it's time for new tires to eliminate the rubbing. Based on how low your front end sits I would bet that the springs are your main problem.

 

I've been confused as to why I'm sitting so low but I also bought my current springs due to a time limit.

I also haven't been consulting other folks who own similar cars and I either got doubts or un-straight answers about the differences in the AC and Non-AC Rated springs.
I'll mark this down towards this being a spring issue.

 

Wow, yes your wheels are sticking out further than they should! Also note your trim rings are much shallower, which indicates the wheel isn’t as deep.
FYI, I have a spare set of 15” SSIIIs that are collecting dust.

My ‘71 has 245-60-15s on factory 1975-era SSIII wheels, and there’s no rubbing. My front end has Moog 5536 front springs and the front tires appear to be more exposed than yours as well.

 

Jeeez, yours sits just right! Nice ride!

Any idea as to what might cause them to stick out more?

 

I ran 245 series 15" tires all around on 15x8 Torq Thrusts for a few years after I first acquired my '72 350 ragtop and they fit fine. They were 4.5" BS rims and I had plenty of front clearance.

I might weigh a guess you could have both worn spring and worn body bushing issues causing your front end droop.

For further reference, I now run 17x8 torq thrust on 245-50-R17 tires - basically the same overall height as the prior 15's were (but much better/more modern tire selections now available to me) - these clear with proper room to spare as well. But I'm also running the correct A/C rated Moog 5536 front springs (installed 2016).

 

Brand new coils but I have not checked the body bushings and the guys who helped me with a lift haven't said anything either.

I oughta take a second look underneath whenever I get the car in a lift again.

 

Yes sitting low in front and wheels are in a bizarre location.



Versus where it should be.



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...le-cutlass-17/

 

It appears to be the wheels. Note how shallow the trim rings are compared to the picture 69CSHC posted, indicating the wheels are not as deep. I don’t know too much about the later cars, but I suspect your wheels are from something in the 80s.

 

I was told they were an inch offset.

 

But here's a photo with a more dead-on angle but on the right side.
There's no spare in the trunk for this one.

 

So those are aftermarket wheels? A set of original Olds 15x7 SSIII wheels would cure that offset issue.

 

I wish the old owner knew more about the car, I'm not sure if these are or not unfortunately!

 

Does the car have some sort of aftermarket brakes on it?

 

I recall both brakes not being the exact same last time I looked!

 

Your wheels look very much like these

 

I do have these that display the depth of them better but the more I compare mine to yours, yeah. These aren't the proper SSIIIs

Additionally, my rear wheels are deeper than my front ones.

 

Just for grins, move the rears to front, and check the fitment.

 

Two things- those FWD rims have a different bolt pattern, they won't fit.

A deeper dish rim will be counterproductive. it'll move the tire further out. Those shallow rims are actually helping this problem by tucking the rim in closer.

 

Maybe wheel spacers on the front…

 

I see.

The slight angle of the other picture, along with the added width of the oversized tire, makes it look way off.

Yes, strange.

Look at where your trim rim sits.



Versus a factory correct 14 x 7.



It's almost as if something was done to your front end to push the wheels out. And your 15 x 7 rims were modified to make it work...

Unless your camera is playing some serious tricks with our eyes...

Here are correct 15 x 7s






https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-rings-135764/

 

👍

That would definitely explain some of what we are seeing.

 

So looking at my image again, I did mess up the photo, I've taken another.

My front left wheel is way in while my right is pushed out.

I don't think there's any spacers as well.

And I can see what's wrong here

 

If your body bushings are original to the car or even only newer by a couple of decades thereafter, they're likely all but fully collapsed and disintegrated. Trust me, just replacing those all around will increase your body height clearance noticeably

 

Look at the left to right difference on the wheel well to tire gaps between the right and left sides.
I see a ton of negative caster on the left side.

Looks like its got drop spindles too. Are they installed improperly? Front end is way too low.
Thats not helping the positive camber which is contributing to the wheel rub.

The rims look off but that could just be a visual with the shallow Pontiac trim rings.

Snap a pic or two of the car with the left wheel off with good lighting. Like to see the rotor and control arms.

If this was my car I would find a frame specialist with a good frame table and skills.
Get it measured to verify the dimensional specs are in tolerance before you do another thing.
The frame shop will be able to pin point the problem and stop the guessing going on here.

This could be a safety issue. Inspect everything, the BJs, control arm bushings, cross shafts, look for rubber deterioration and the bushing through hole bosses in all 4 control arms for cracks. Look at the LCA mounts especially the rear arm to frame mount locations.

Once you have the proper diagnosis get the factory springs and spindles installed as I'll bet other things are coming apart anyway.
Eaton Spring -supplies the factory rated spring for this application.

While the cars on the rack look at the rest of the chassis for wear and integrity.

 

I'm getting this car back on a hoist sometime soon along with getting that alignment checked out again, that caster is bothering the hell out of me.

Found out that the right side fender has been pushed inwards, I'm going to go and get that pulled out whenever my bodyman is able to take me.
It also seems the left fender is misaligned a bit. Could be why it looks like the caster is way negative or I have bigger problems on my hands!

 

Just out of curiosity, how does the thing actually drive?

 

Without a passenger on the front bench, it drives great! I do not rub at all turning sharp corners.

 

No, I meant how does it drive as in: Does it track straight or does it wander? Will it hold a line through a corner? Is it stable under heavy braking? You know, all those indicators of potential suspension or frame damage.

 

Doesn't wander, stays straight, holds the line and brakes pretty good..

 

Measured the distance between front and rear wheels, they are the same distance from each other on each side.

The caster looks to be some due to improper fitments on the fender. And my right fender is pushed inwards with what might've been a hard bump.
I'll look over the car again just to be sure everything looks good, I will hold off those springs if it fixes the rub issue and install coilovers next spring, (When the car comes out of storage.)

I really appreciate the advice you guys have given me!

 

Take a piece of printer paper to use as a "straight edge". Lay the paper on your screen at the rockers and see where the paper edge crosses your wheel center cap. It should cut across the middle of your center cap, or close.

I'll add my thoughts here.
1. Let me point out the "Big Block"/"Small Block" poppycock from many, many years ago when Chebbies had the 265, 283, 327, 350 engines were referred to "Mouse motors". The 396, 427, 454 cubic inch motors were called "Rat motors" to distinguish the engine families. There were distinct engine weight differences between the Mouse motors and the Rat motors.
Later, the terminology evolved to "small block"/"big block". This allowed the Fords to be described similarly (Small block Windsors, Clevelands, etc. OR "FE" 352, 390, 406, 427), Mopars (273, 340, 360, etc. OR the 413, 426).
The Oldsmobile "Small blocks" were the 330, 350 and 403. The big blocks a considered 400, 425 and 455. I don't believe weight differences are as gigantic among Oldsmobile engines as was with Chebbie, Ford and Mopar. As a result, this "small block/big block" front springs is a bit Bogus when referring to Oldsmobile's.

2. My first inclination is to get a competent shop to check your frame to see if the frame is straight.
3. With wheels off take a pic for us and look wheel spacers and wheel stud lengths.
4. I believe Factory Olds wheels were zero offset, except the FWD cars. Find out where this 1 inch offset comes from that you mention.
5. Did you make sure the tails of the front coil springs are clocked correctly A arm ? They need to be installed correctly (per CSM) or you can get a variation in height from side to side.
6. Your front end is plenty low, but I think the rear may be a bit high also. If you raise the rear of the car, it transfers weigh to to front end which makes a low front end worse. This also hurts traction.

 

It may stay straight from the driver's seat perspective. But it very likely does not track straight. Subtle dog tracking is only observable from an outside vantage point.

A bent frame can still have equidistant measure from wheel to wheel per side. The general illustrations in screenshot below, although not precise will give you an idea of why the wheels can still measure equidistant to each other.


https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/...-thrust-angle/


If you adjust the rear end housing to be parallel to the crossmember in the lower illustration. The front-to-rear wheel-to-wheel measures will be equal on both sides...

At the same time front end components may have been adjusted to compensate for the issue... Thus somewhat masking the real issue.

I literally expanded both your pics of full length passenger side and driver side. Till they were equal in dimension. Then I loosely measured the center of each wheel to the same precise locations on the body itself. Same location of rim center cap to the closest door edge by rocker panel, etc. The wheels are not in the same locations on both sides of the car. Both wheels on driver side are setback versus the passenger side locations. This can only be so accurate of course so you would have to confirm with actual measurement.

 

One thing missed here is the body on the frame, your car looks like mine. My car has the body 3/4" to the driver’s side vs the passenger side. No problem with my 205/70R14 or the 225/70R14 tires. I picked up 10" wide rims for the back and put on 275/60R15 tires on the back. Took my Daughter and her boyfriend for a rip, the passenger back tire rubbed. I ended up grinding that chrome trim ring and cargo coils in the back, problem fixed. My front would fit your tires due to the high factory front coil springs without rubbing. The body on frame issue is common most aren't as extreme as mine. I actually put a spacer on the drivers rear and may do the front as well. I see absolutely no frame damage, figured it is part of older mass production car ownership. Hope this helps.

 

Read post #26

 

Body bushings? Mine are still in place from what I can see. Yes, a very good thing to check.

 

What are the camber specs for both sides? If you have positive camber the top of the wheel will lean outward. Can you post your vehicles alignment settings? Is the vehicles body properly positioned on the chassis?

 

Are there any spacers behind the wheels? I would first fix the too low issue. Note, disc brakes will push the wheels out 1/2+ inches. You can also take a wooden baseball bat and roll the inner lip of the fender.