When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
What is the current thinking on reversing the cooler lines when making the TH350 to 200-4r swap? Top to top and bottom to bottom as usual or top to bottom and bottom to top? There's a lot of conflicting info on the internet.
Is swapping mandatory or a preference thing?
I will be adding a cooler in series.
I think people loose WAAAAY too much sleep over transmission cooler lines. Do you really think the fluid cares if it is flowing uphill or downhill in the cooler? Yeah, the top of the radiator is marginally warmer than the bottom. If you really care about that, put the trans outlet into the top and the trans inlet from the bottom of the radiator cooler, but frankly, I suspect you'd be hard pressed to see a difference.
Joe, it gets more interesting when adding an in-line cooler. Should the cooler be before or after the radiator in the flow path? Many fine men have lost their lives on this battlefield.
Joe, it gets more interesting when adding an in-line cooler. Should the cooler be before or after the radiator in the flow path? Many fine men have lost their lives on this battlefield.
Funny you should mention that. There's a thread over on Hotrodders.com on that very topic. Currently FOUR pages and counting.
Does the toilet paper come off the top of the roll or the bottom?
The top, defiantly the top. Any other way would be uncivilized!
I did my lines top to bottom, and bottom to top. Does it really matter though? I don't know. I also used -6 braided lines as well.
To be honest, the braided lines probably make more of a difference than the routing. Braided lines are simply rubber hose with a stainless overbraid. The rubber is an insulator and stainless is a crappy conductor. This tends to hold the heat into the trans fluid, though again. we're probably talking about a 5% difference at most over steel lines. Frankly, if your steel lines run next to headers, that's even more of an affect.
Toilet paper ... depends. If you have a cat or kids, under. All adults, over.
Trans cooler lines? Depends if there's a check valve in there anywhere. Aux trans cooler? ALWAYS before the radiator. The temp of the coolant in the rad serves as a thermostat for the trans fluid. It's possible to run the trans too cold.
Toilet paper ... depends. If you have a cat or kids, under. All adults, over.
Trans cooler lines? Depends if there's a check valve in there anywhere. Aux trans cooler? ALWAYS before the radiator. The temp of the coolant in the rad serves as a thermostat for the trans fluid. It's possible to run the trans too cold.
And yet, the 1968 CSM not only shows the hot line from the trans going into the BOTTOM of the radiator cooler, it also shows the optional aux cooler plumbed AFTER the radiator cooler...
Here is a good read to add controversy. Mark Kovalsky is or was (recently retired) a Ford Transmission R&D design engineer for years. He dealt directly with trans cooling systems. I too thought that the air over oil cooler should be placed pre radiator when in fact he recommends the opposite. This is data driven info. As an Engineer I have been taught by one of the old guys who has the data to back it up. Read on...
Interesting. I was always an advocate of auxiliary cooler before the radiator heat exchanger. However, who am I to argue with a design engineer specialising in automatic transmissions?.
I rather agree with Joe though, in the real world it probably doesn't matter too much unless we are putting our transmissions to really heavy work like long distance heavy trailer towing for example.
I never understood why people worry about this so much. If the "overcooling" thing were real, people who lived in the cold parts of the world wouldn't be able to drive automatics. When you get into the car on a sub-zero morning, the trans fluid is at the same temperature as the air. It doesn't heat up instantaneously, and the radiator certainly doesn't warm up as fast as the trans oil.
For any reasonably sized aux cooler, you will NEVER overcool the trans fluid, even without using the radiator cooler. Keep in mind that only a very small percentage of the total trans oil is in the cooler at any given time, and the thermal mass of the oil in the trans is just too great. And if you are doing heavy duty towing, overcooling isn't your problem.
By the way, the reason newer vehicles have thermostats or other cooler bypass features is not because of an "overcooling" issue, it's to make sure the trans oil is warmer and less viscous to reduce drag in the trans and maximize mileage on the EPA test cycle. Federal CAFE standards are forcing automakers to use every single trick in the book.
I bought one of those round finned aluminum oil coolers, I forget how long and what dia, but I'm going to say 16" x 2 " dia with in -out fittings.
I bought a Be Cool rad without the trans cooler and ran my tranny lines to the aluminum finned cooler. I mounted it on the passenger fender well.
That's what I did.
Eric
Joe, it gets more interesting when adding an in-line cooler. Should the cooler be before or after the radiator in the flow path? Many fine men have lost their lives on this battlefield.
Sigh...not again. Lol.
All good information. I remember reading somewhere on CO "Don't forgot to switch the cooler lines!" It just kind of stuck with me.
I haven't read the directions on the aux cooler yet but good info on hooking it after the radiator.
I'll have a review of Midwest Converters (that built my 200-4r) in Rockford, Il coming soon. Spoiler: it's mixed.
That's exactly why I used the braided lines. The factory lines were too close and touching the headers. Plus, it looks a lot cooler
Just out of curiosity, would you have a link to the lines you purchased? Summit only has braided for the 7004r (I think), and they seem a little long. But if they are just rubber hose, maybe they can be trimmed?
Just out of curiosity, would you have a link to the lines you purchased? Summit only has braided for the 7004r (I think), and they seem a little long. But if they are just rubber hose, maybe they can be trimmed?
It's not difficult to assembly your own braided lines from bulk hose and fittings.
X2 Joe, even I can make these!! On a few of the pics notice the lines are attached to the wheel wells, far from the headers then to an aluminum radiator with dual electric fans.
X2 Joe, even I can make these!! On a few of the pics notice the lines are attached to the wheel wells, far from the headers then to an aluminum radiator with dual electric fans.
Little pricey, however by the time you buy a new pair of flared steel OEM replacement lines from repo supplier your about there in terms of price. These lines are obviously very flexible, easy to hide or run them down the the right side wheel wheel. However guys that need to stay original, steel repo parts is the way to go. Braided lines can take a tremendous amount of PSI, that said these lines for the trans is way overkill but extremely reliable!
I'm unsure as to why guys run the lines through the tranny cooler into an auxiliary then back to the tranny.
Back in the day many places including rad shops would just use plastic ties, tie the cooler onto the front of the rad through the fins and not use the tranny cooler in the rad.
I guess things have changed.
FWIW I used regular steel line wrapped them in the area near my headers although i bent them and formed them along the fire wall then up the frame ., for a cooler im using a Huge oil cooler from i wanna say a 2002 ford explorer fin type Its 22 x 6 .20 bucks from the local junk yard . Used High psi bolt type clamps with barbs for the small short sections of rubber i did use. Although i like the AN fittings i cant justify the cost .
Here is where i mounted my auxiliary cooler which i dont run through the radiator. I made brackets and actually use long bolts through the bottom of the radiator top plate then use the remainder of the bolt as a stud to hold down the top plate so it can be removed without dropping the cooler.
Last edited by coppercutlass; June 2nd, 2016 at 05:21 PM.
Coppercutlass, that's a great way to get-er done. I'm building my last car, my "Picasso" using some of my son's future inheritance!! Then in 3 years retire and go cruising meeting some of you guys. Got any COLD beer????
Just out of curiosity, would you have a link to the lines you purchased? Summit only has braided for the 7004r (I think), and they seem a little long. But if they are just rubber hose, maybe they can be trimmed?
Trying to cut the braided hose and install those fitting will make you say all kinds of bad words even a truck driver blush, but once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.
mac you can custom build your own lines at they will cut to fit on the spot at this place. The usually are competitive with summit racing. I usually go to the one in joliet. They atleast made my lines there free of charge.
Trying to cut the braided hose and install those fitting will make you say all kinds of bad words even a truck driver blush, but once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.
Originally Posted by coppercutlass
mac you can custom build your own lines at they will cut to fit on the spot at this place. The usually are competitive with summit racing. I usually go to the one in joliet. They atleast made my lines there free of charge.
Thanks for the links, fellas. dfire, is it any worse than trying to line up the steel line fittings just right when screwing them into the trans? I think I made up some new swear combinations the last time I did that.
Once upon a time ago, (13 years), I started to drive my '92 Custom Cruiser with a stock 4L60 transmission with 50,000+/- miles. Quite early on I added a factory B4C Caprice transmission cooler here in the state of Texas. I called my friend and business owner Greg Ducato at Pheonix Transmissions to ask him advise on coolant line configuration. Bear in mind that it is very hot here in north Texas, but he advised me to bypass the radiator cooler, and go straight to the external cooler. I've driven (not abused) this car to and from work every day with the odometer registering 262,000+ miles. The car still shifts and drives great with minimal fluid changes. I believe that a good build, combined with cool fluid regardless of direction of flow is key for longevity.
Here is how i ran my steel lines. from the end points i ran a double inverted flare fitting then use a barb and all that good stuff. for some reason i though i ran em close to the frame. Go figure i just had the trans down a few weeks ago and i forgot how i had the lines routed lol.
This one shows where on the wheel well a little better plus no one likes a blurry engine pic lol.
Last edited by coppercutlass; June 2nd, 2016 at 08:43 PM.
I used hyd hose with compression fittings over the cutoff ends from the original steel lines. It wasn't that expensive and took around 20 minutes to install.
I never understood why people worry about this so much. If the "overcooling" thing were real, people who lived in the cold parts of the world wouldn't be able to drive automatics. When you get into the car on a sub-zero morning, the trans fluid is at the same temperature as the air. It doesn't heat up instantaneously, and the radiator certainly doesn't warm up as fast as the trans oil.
For any reasonably sized aux cooler, you will NEVER overcool the trans fluid, even without using the radiator cooler. Keep in mind that only a very small percentage of the total trans oil is in the cooler at any given time, and the thermal mass of the oil in the trans is just too great. And if you are doing heavy duty towing, overcooling isn't your problem.
My cruiser's rad did not have coolant but water so no idea about the rust condition in it. Don't wish to contaminate ATF with coolant. Therefore, I am also thinking of using an external transmission cooler bypassing the radiator altogether. Also this will ease the radiator too.
Here, the environment temperatures fluctuate from 77F to 95F. But averages around 90F. Also, it is the same setup found in the Alfa Romeo 164 which has a ZF auto transaxle.
Here, the temperature warning sender (item 21 in diagram) and fan switch (item 17 in diagram) are both mounted in the cooler line after the cooler. (see photo below - image credits to Alfisto Steve)
That means the fan kicks in if the ATF coming from the cooler is too hot, until it comes down to an acceptable temperature. Elegant setup as far as I can see.
Maybe the ZF transaxle runs a bit hotter because it's fan turns on at 230F. My idea is to turn on the fan if temps hit 176F and turn off when it reaches 167F. That means the average ATF temps will stay between those two numbers. I read in few places that the optimal temp for ATF is about 170F.
Last edited by kuseetha; October 11th, 2017 at 02:53 AM.
I use only auxiliary coolers on both my Olds. No chance of coolant contamination and both rads are just big enough, so a little less cooling load. I cut both lines as both were damaged so I added braided hose and double clamps with a least one efi clamp on each line.
I use only auxiliary coolers on both my Olds. No chance of coolant contamination and both rads are just big enough, so a little less cooling load. I cut both lines as both were damaged so I added braided hose and double clamps with a least one efi clamp on each line.
Once upon a time ago I spoke with Greg Ducato at Pheonix Transmission regarding the use of external trans coolers and whether I should eliminate my radiator trans cooler.. Of course I live in Texas, and our temps are much more mild than some of our good northern neighbors. He recommended that it would be beneficial to only run my external police issue 9C1 engine oil and trans coolers to provide optimal cooling. Unfortunately my '92 Custom Cruiser was totaled last November with 273,000 plus miles on the original tbi5.7 and 4L60 combo untouched with no problems... I only can wonder how much longer it would have lasted. Needless to say, my '70 flattop has an isolated trans cooler and the Buick Estate wagon I currently drive has the trans cooler donated from the Custom Cruiser carcass.
June 2nd, 2016, 06:14 AM
