mwmjr

I bought a really nice 1969 442 and it had everything I was looking for except a 4speed. What all is involved in taking out the auto and how much for the install of the manual

Thanks for any help
PS: time frame?
Mike

z11375ss

I have the same problem. I understand it to be a real chore because of the fact that the auto crank is diff from the 4 speed crank. Is this true? I have a nice '68 S that was converted to a Ram Rod 350. The only prob is they only came w/ 3 and 4 speeds. I think it would also add quite a bit of value to the car. All my other stuff is manual and I like them better than auto. A real musclecar has a 4 speed imo.

2blu442

Olds didn't make a lot of four speed cars, so most cranks are not drilled for a pilot bearing. There was a thread about this not too long ago where one guy said he paid a machine shop $250 to drill the crank after he removed it from the car. One other question I have though, if you have a numbers matching car it might be worth more keeping it numbers matching. If you don't care about numbers you could sell the 442, buy a clean Cutlass and build a clone out of it. As long as you don't try to sell it as a 442 a clone car will give you the freedom of changing things without reducing the value of the car. In fact a well built clone still brings a high price tag. That's my two cents, but its your car. I would say the crankshaft is going to be the biggest hurdle, the rest is bolt in stuff with the exception of cutting the floorboard for the shifter hole. You can buy the parts depending on how good a deal you get that could run between $1,000 and $2,000 for everything. There was a complete changeover setup on ebay, not sure if the auction ended yet or not but it had the trannie plus all the pieces to make the swap.

2blu442

I just saw your other thread about headers where you say you've got a 425. The correct engine should have been a 400 so that's been changed. Check your transmission tag, on the passenger side of the car to see if the autmatic is correct or if it's been changed too. To the best of my knowledge they never put 4 speeds behind 425 engines. But that should use the same crankshaft as the 1965-67 400 engines. Finding a factory 4 speed crank may be difficult and expensive when you find it, but if you really like the 425 you could explore that possibility. John

Oldsmaniac

Yes the 425 used the same crank as the 400 in 65-67. Olds in 1965 and 1966 did option a 4spd trans in some models with the 425. Dont forget too that the 3spd standard trans was standard in a lot of the full size models up till 1971 or so but very few were built. The turbo 400 was used in 99.9 percent of the B-body cars.....Mondello sells a bushing that goes into the back of the auto trans cranks for the stick conversion. The only thing required is to measure to see if the tip of the input shaft will hit the center of the crank. If it does you need to drill the crank deeper or grind a little off the trans (not recommended) and although the crank is hard it can be drilled with a drill going up gradually in bit size while the crank is in the engine. Remember exact centering is not critical as the Mondello bushing aligns the input shaft, you are drilling the crank for clearance only.

z11375ss

I scooped that complete 4 speed setup on ebay. Also got a crank. Looks like I'm gonna have a 4 speed after all. As long as I have the motor apart I will freshen things up and add the correct heads for the w-31. Alot more cam too.

Oldsmaniac

Nice score on parts.....be advised a cam that is too big will turn the engine into a turd. It may sound mean but thats about all you will get. Bigger cams need lower rear gears and better intaking and exhausting. They also reduce vacuum at idle and cause power brake problems. A 442 cam or a W30 cam will be enough for the street. Ya want a cam that makes power from off idle to 5000 rpm on the street.

mwmjr

Thanks for the information everyone. I have been talking with a gentleman that is listed in the olds part locator guide named ray from rays transmission. The guy has been really nice to work with and seems very knowledgeable. He seems to be able to provide me with everything except the foot pedals but he has not mentioned anything about the crank. The 442 that I purchased is a non-numbers matching car so I think the 4 speed shouldn't take away any value but we will find out at some time I suppose. The car has a center counsel (sp?) so we shouldn't have to cut new holes.
Any other info on the crank info would be helpful
Thanks again everyone

z11375ss

Yeah, I know about too much cam. About 25 years ago I owned a chevy and put a monster cam in it without a gear stall etc. It was slower than the shorter duration cam. I meant to say that a w-31 cam will be installed or maybe slightly bigger but not too much. I want to drive this car, not have it stall etc. It has at least 3.55 gears in it. You know as well as I that you want a cam that will work best w/ your combo. Right now the cam sounds stock and I want the car to rumble, you know? All the parts must work in concert or the car will be slow. I learned this through trial and error through the years. Thanks for the advice though. Jim

Oldsguy

Hey guys, I bought one of the last cams designed and ground by a small outfit that was in Texas. The owner/grinder just couldn't keep business going with the competition from the big guys. I can't remember his name now but he had a good reputation over at ROP so I bought from him. Anyway, after he closed business he got a job with Lunati and has been there for the last couple of years, I planned on looking into that option when I buy my next cam. I have his name someplace in my records at home and will have to look it up or do a search over at ROP. Just remembered, it is Harold I think and his moniker was Harold or Mr. Harold or justharold or something like that. He was a member over there. Most of his cams were balanced as I recall (same duration for intake and exhaust). Gosh, I hope this isn't confusing, I have terrible memory but I will look this up if anybody wants me to.

texasred

Ultradyne Harold? I think he left Ultradyne fairly recently. The other Dan (70Wcars) can tell you where he is now.

I'm having one done by Terry at FCR Performance for my street/strip 455.

C.J.

Oldsguy

Yeah, that's him UDHarold. Ultradyne was his company and then he went to Lunati, or so I was to understand. Just wondering, who is grinding the one you are getting from Terry and is it designed by Terry?

texasred

I'll PM you.

C.J.

z11375ss

A good cam grinder is like water in the desert. You need 'em. When I am changing the cam and need a grind I'll pm you. Thanks.

mwmjr

Mondello sells a bushing that goes into the back of the auto trans cranks for the stick conversion. The only thing required is to measure to see if the tip of the input shaft will hit the center of the crank. If it does you need to drill the crank deeper or grind a little off the trans (not recommended)

--------------

I called mondello and asked them about this topic and they said many times the shaft on the transmission side does not even need to be shaved but they suggest shaving the trans side. What would be a reason that I would not want to shave the input shaft of the manual trans?

I thought I was going to have to give up my swap plans unless I found a complete motor with correct crank and pull everything out of the car and replace. This 69 bushing from modello sure looks like a great solution.

thanks for any comments or opinions!

Mike

Oldsmaniac

Well my feelings are... the input shaft (part that would be shortened), was made a certain length for a certain reason. To shave some off may in theory make the trans un-useable in another application. To shave a little would be insignificant but shaving a lot could in a sense make junk of the trans for another useage. So the best thing to do is measure and find out exactly what is needed. Just my opinion.

mwmjr

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Eightupman

I knew an old circle track racer who called a company with every spec of the motor, what compression ratio, what lifters, what pistons, what HP range he was shooting for, what valve sizes were in the heads all the way down to what type of OIL he was using, and custom ground a cam based on all that info. The car owner said it was the best $50 he EVER spent. Sounds similar to this Harold you are talking about.

and Z11375ss.....your crank is in the shop still. It's coming...

John

Eightupman

I have a line on a 4 speed short block. This may be your solution. PM me if you are still interested. Too bad you were beat to the punch for mine that I just let go!

Another thought is if you are going to rebuild the motor anyway, you can take the crank to a machine shop and have them use a drill press to punch the applicable clearance in the crank. If done properly, you will not have to destroy a tranny.

BTW, Mondello is not the almighty Ozma of Olds motors. His stuff is overpriced and overkill, and soon will be overcome by other companies. SHOP AROUND!! Dick Miller Racing, BigDog racing (I think its big dog) are all doing Olds stuff now. Not disrespecting this site at ALL, but go over to realoldspower.com and talk to the guys there. The have more sources for stuff you are looking to do.

John

John

Oldsmaniac

This is a little off topic but since Mondello was mentioned in a sort of bad way I need to say something. Ive been building Oldsmobiles since the early 1970's. Back then the only game in town was Mondello.....while everyone else was poo-pooing Olds as a boat anchor Mr. Mondello was running these engines and putting together performance parts and manuals on how to make the engine survive. Wether he got his info from someone else or came up with it on his own is not important. He was the one stop shopping for Oldsmobiles and was involved personally with the brand. I give him credit for that and for promoting Oldsmobile with racing and performance. There are surely other sources for parts that were mentioned and Ive dealt with them and had my problems with them as well. They are all in it for the buck....wouldnt you? I built a 425 with all Mondello specs. and it has gone 7000 RPM and survives still. It would take my 67 442 into the low 12's with me shifting at 6400 RPM....As for ROP that site in my opinion is a bunch of snot nosed kids who thrive on BS and have a back slapping mentality among themselves. Yes there are some real racers there with top notch info but they are very Few! While Mondello was building and racing Olds engines most of the visitors at ROP were getting their diapers changed and nose wiped by their mothers. Just my rant....real info can be found here at Classic Oldsmobile.

Eightupman

Hey...just putting it out there that there are currently OTHER sources for these parts. You are 100% correct in saying that Mondello was the only one in the game for that time. Dick Miller is a close second if not equal to Mondello at this point. Between this site, ROP, and 442.com there is varied info on building a motor. Oldspower.com seems to cater to the G bodies and even though I am a member there as well, I am finding the snot nosed kid to actual intellegent builder ratio is MUCH higher. I am VERY careful about what info I pull out of ANY site.

If you have no gripe about Mondello, cool. HOWEVER if there is more bad juju about going to (for example) Home Depot vs Lowes wouldn't you want to know too??

John