These guys seem like they know what they are doing? I'll be pushing just under 400hp and 500lbs of tq in my 455. Daily driver but will take it to track once a summer or so.

http://aaprostreettransmission.com/tranny.html

I like the price but it makes me wonder...
I'm interested in the 2004R.

 

More info on the site but here' a summary

200 4-R Features:

• Fairbanks-Superior HP Shift Kit
• 10 Vane Pump w/ Dual Slide Springs
• Borg Warner Clutches and Bands
• 2/4 Servo Spring Upgrade. Billet Servo Available
• Pressure Regulator Improved for Full Time Lube
• Non-Sticking Throttle Valve 3-4 Shift Valve Upgrade
• 3" Shorter than 700 R4 and 2 1/2" narrower
• Sold w/ Dipstick and Detent Cable
• Price: $750 Outright - 6 Month Unlimited Mile Warranty
• Full Comp Unit Available - Special Order, Additional Charge

 

As it should. The description sounds like a nearly stock rebuild. No mention of heat treated stator shaft. No mention of billet shaft on the forward drum. No mention of roller thrust bearings. There's a reason why it's to cheap.

 

If you are serious about wanting a 200r4 go to the turbo buick sites and look at the trans shops on those sites. They have the top notch trans builders on those sites.If you keep seeing the name Brian Hofer it is for good reason. He is top shelf and if you do not want to use him there are several other companies that can help you out. Be prepared to spend around $2000.00 or so on a trans that will live for a good long time not just hold up for a while. Also go with the convertor recommended by your builder don't try to look for a less expensive option very rarely if ever does that work out. Just my .02

 

I've just spend a few weeks investigating options for a 200-4R purchase, and now I'm going through my 1st rebuild.

Chris Kokkonis from CK Performance in NY is the 200-4R expert and is one of (if not THE) favorite of the Grand National community. I bought a Stage II 700R4 from him in 2004. I also just bought a complete rebuild and upgrade kit with his performance manual. Don't take my word for it, spend some time snooping around www.TurboBuick.com and www.gnttype.com Chris is the only vendor that offers a 200 page picture loaded performance rebuild manual he created. You can't find it on his website though, it's only through a secret squirrel link. JakeShoe is another name you'll see alot, but he stopped doing 200-4R's and is concentrating mostly on his 4L80e trans brake builds now since they are booming. I just spent an hour with him on the phone last night and he was giving me all kinds of tips and tricks for my build.

Art Carr is the other big name that sold his Texas shop to another party a few years ago, and opened up a NEW one in California. The Texas shop just closed.

Agreed.
For that HP /TQ application you'll murder that stock rebuilt 200-4R.
Check out CK Performance build sheets, you'll see the difference.
http://www.ckperformance.com/resourc...SMISSIONS.html

Bare minimum from what I've read for your Torque output.
Heat Treated Stator $25-$40 depending on source.
Heat Treated Sun Shell $25-$40 depending on source.
Billet input shaft forward drum $350 from CK Performance
Red Alto band (highly recommended everywhere)


For your torque you're going to be putting through it, you absolutely need these parts.
Super Servo will help the 2nd shift too.

For inexpensive and reliable converters, try out www.roadrunnerconverters.com
Jake used their's behind his 454 and abused the crap out of them and they're reliable.

 

Talk to the guy's at Bowtieoverdrives.com
Thats where I got my trans from. Plus they have everything you need for the install. No fabricating needed.

 

Another option is PATC, but I don't like that they use the 13 vane pumps

http://www.200raptor.com/

You'll need a Level 3 at the bare minimum for it to survive behind that motor's torque.
http://www.2004r.com/trans/level3.shtml

So I'd compare their Level 3 to CK's 1st level for the same price range.
I think you'll find many parts are similar, but there's some key upgrade differences.
I've heard good things about their transmissions too. That was my 2nd choice in 2004 and the present build.

Stay away from anyone who puts a 13 vane pump in the trans.
7 vanes had harmonic issues but now chrome moly rings that are indestructible are used.
10 vane pumps are as much as you need to go.

The Ebay guys from Hudson Florida are selling basic trans overhauls with minimal upgrades claiming the sky.
I just spent time investigating those as well.

 

BTW Joe,

All those $100 each Kent Moore specialty tools to get the trans apart, not even needed.
Got everything out without the spring compressor, low reverse drum tool, etc.

Only snap ring pliers, pick, 2 hammer ends, and a flat head screwdriver.
Had my wife push down with 2 hammer handles on the springs to get the C-clips out. Cake

 

Cool. Thanks guys. I'm not real familiar with the insides of a transmission and was not sure what to look for in a tough overdrive tranny. I'll look into the guys you listed. Dont want a blown tranny just outside the warranty.

 

Yeah, and Chris K shows the alternate methods in his book. Suffice to say that I didn't spend anywhere NEAR $100/tool on ebay and at Carlisle. I collect tools and I like to have the right tool for the job if I can. What did you do about bushing drivers? Did you use a generic set? If so, how did it fit?

 

I have used a cam bearing remover/installer to replace bushing if I don't have the correct size tool. I have never been able to install or remove the low/reverse piston in a 200r4 trans without the correct tool. If anybody in readerland knows of a way without the tool Id like to know. I have the Kent-Moore tool, just to satisfy my curiosity Id like to know how people have done it.

 

DISCLAIMER : I'm a hobbyist doing this, not a transmission expert.
But I have good people who are experts I have known for years.
I couldn't get mine out by using hooks or anything.
I ended up taking some 2x4's and laying them out as a base on my floor.
Covered them with a thick cushion of shop rags to bang it out on.

Turned the trans upside down and banged it on the wood. Took 2 drops and
it came out. The rear shaft clutches and steels acted as a slide hammer
to kick it in the ***. It's going to fall on the shop rags, and the wood to
absorb the shock. Rear shaft and clutches won't come out yet....so don't sweat that.

To install it, Jake recommended using a 4" in diameter PVC pipe to spread
the pressure you can put a 2x4 over that, and a rubber mallet to force it down.

As for the Spring Compressor. I just took each part that had the spring
loaded C-clips, turned them upside down inside my wooden car stands I
made like these. Then had my wife load down the each side of the springs
with 2 hammer handles while I waited with the snap ring pliers to remove
the snap ring. Took all of 10 seconds.

Saved $230 in specialty tools on those 2 things alone right there.
I'll take pictures as a tip to show people if they're not in Chris' book.


Well it would have been nice if I had it at that time.
I still haven't gotten it because Michelle said that they ran
out and had to reprint them all with new material.

They forgot my hardened sun shell, some spacer bushings, and my book.
Plus I told him to sent me one of their big servo's since it's the best one.
Chris said this past Friday it SHOULD have been there to ship out.
Didn't make it today, I'm going to call tomorrow to find out.

Just bought a set like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-PI...5fPartsQ5fGear

Jakeshoe said all the bushings typically don't need replacement unless they're very
visibly worn out. He gave me a few key locations to make sure I replaced them tho.

 

Well, all I can say is that I spent less than that for ALL the Kent Moore tools for a 200-4R. Since I plan to build more than one, I figured it was worth it. With all the GM dealerships closing down, a lot of the Kent Moore tools are on ebay now. You just need to know how to write a focused search string.

 

There's probably 20+ specialty tools they will try to sell you Joe.
It's very easy to spend more in tools then performance parts on these.
So you bought them all for under $230 eh ??

 

That's what I said. That also includes a set with about 3/4 of the bushing drivers. Most of the tools were available in the $10-$15 range from ebay. Yeah, many of them have higher asking prices. I just waited until the ones I needed were at the price I wanted to pay. Probably took me about 2 years to get them all. I prioritized my purchases. The low/reverse clutch housing tool (J-28542) was one of the first ones I got. I wrote a focused search script for ebay to make this easy.

Edit: I should mention that I didn't worry about getting every single one of them. As you correctly point out, the pump alignment tool is easy to replace. The lip seal installer is actually easy to replace with a feeler gauge. I didn't bother with the pump removal tool, either, but if I find one really cheap I'll probably grab it.

I don't argue that you can build the trans without them. I built a TH400 that way. As I said, I collect tools. Plus, at my age it's worth spending money to save time, 'cause I can't make more time.

 

I hear ya chief.

Good deal then. Sounds like you scored some great deals.
I had a lead on the low / reverse drum tool through Ebay from a guy on
TurboBuick but the seller already sold 25 of them already for just $20.

They were supposed to check the warehouse and get back to me.
I figured for $20 it wouldn't hurt......but no go I guess.

 

There's one on ebay right now for $15.

 

Seen it. Plastic version from Kent Moore Turbo Buick guys showed me.

If you see a cheap 200-4R Speedo driven gear assembly used let me know.
They have new kits for $40 from PATC.
I trashed mine because it was seized up and couldn't get it out.

 

Yes, that's the one I have. The metal one you pictured is aftermarket, not Kent Moore.