Lol here we are with the washers again. Some people use spacers and some don't. Yes its a new converter going in.

 

I had no choice with that converter but have run a couple since out of habit. On my current build, I am going to measure the pilot clearance and go from there. As said, if there isn't adequate space between the converter pilot and the crank, it can wipe out the engine bearings. If it is very tight, a single 3/8" washer should do the trick.

 

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. The only way the converter can damage the thrust bearing is if the converter is forced rearward against the trans pump. Adding shims or washers does exactly that. Pulling the converter forward prevents it from binding against the pump.

 

So if the center converter pilot is touching the crank or really close, that is good, got it, it was never explained to me. So what happens when a converter balloons? It only ballons backwards towards the transmission? Why does our transmission expert on this site suggest 3/16" to 1/4" space between the converter and flex plate? FYI all these aftermarket converters have some space, talking 1 to 3 washers will fit between the flex plate and converter, some worse than others. If I use one 3/16" washer with my current 2200 to 2500 stall, I will still have 3/16" movement backwards, two will fit.

 

The pilot on the converter is supposed to be INSIDE the recess in the crank. This is what controls concentricity from the crank to the converter. The bolts do NOT locate the converter, they are clearance holes in the flexplate. The nose of the converter should be fully seated in the crank.

 

I understand that the pilot needs to be engaged. My car will see the track and this motor will be pushing 8K for cost. Wiping out a thrust bearing is exactly what I don't want. Pretty sure the OP doesn't want that. I assume Matt, our expert mentioned the space between the flexplate and converter due to potential converter ballooning. I will probably step up to a better converter, especially if I add boost. Hopefully Matt explain why he says space should exist.

 

First of all, the OP's Jetstar is not a drag car, so converter ballooning is a non-issue for him. Second, I still don't understand how pushing the converter TOWARDS the trans is ever a good thing. Again, the only way the converter can push on the crank and thus damage the thrust bearing is if it is bottomed in the pump. Shimming the converter away from the flexplate moves it TOWARDS the pump, which increases the likelihood of bottoming it. Sorry, but what am I missing?

 

Matt69 in another thread. He has built more transmissions than anyone on this site🤷‍♂️.
"Hughes makes top notch stuff. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it. As long as you have 3/16 to a 1/4 inch of clearance between the converter and flywheel, your in good shape." His words, not mine. I should have 250+ psi line pressure, not sure what his rebuild will have behind his 330. He will have space to remove with the aftermarket converter, if you say suck it up tight, then he sure can.

 

I wouldn’t consider myself an expert!!! But thank you for the endorsement.

I would consider 1/4 inch clearance the absolute maximum converter pullout from the pump. I tried to copy/paste installation instructions but once again for whatever reason it won’t work. I’ll summarize them as best I can.

Make sure there are no nicks/burrs/defects on the converter hub. Make sure the crank pilot hole is a clean and also free of burrs. Place the converter against the flex plate, the converter hub needs to go completely into the crank, the converter mounting ears need to sit flat against the flex plate. If not, you need to find out why.

Put a quart of fluid in the converter. There is no need to fill it, all that will do is make a mess. You need a little fluid to prevent dry starts. Put some transmission fluid on the converter hub to lube the seal. Place the converter on the input shaft. Spin and wiggle the converter until it’s fully seated. Your trying to align the splines of the input shaft, stator support splines, and the tangs on the pump gears with the slots on the converter.

Once that’s done, and your confident the converter is seated, you can bolt it to the engine. Slowly tighten the bellhousing bolts, while occasionally spinning the converter. If the converter locks, stop and double check that the converter didn’t fall out of the pump. With the trans snug against the engine, the converter should move freely. It may not turn all the way around (the mounting tabs may hit balance weights) but it should move. If not, stop and fin out why.

Next, push the converter into the trans. Ideally, you want 1/8-3/16 clearance between the converter and flexplate. If so, good deal. If not, you could use a washer to take up clearance.

Once again, if the converter is assembled correctly, and the crankshaft thrust bearing is good, you shouldn’t need to shim anything. The guys on the assembly line putting these cars together didn’t lovingly measure and shim each converter, if everything is built correctly you should need to either.

As for the converter ballooning, it does occasionally happen. Usually its caused by a severely restricted cooler, or a cheap converter used with a transbrake, etc. I’m also on the fence on the using a restrictor in the converter feed. I’m not entirely convinced there is a problem. If converter charge pressure was really as big a concern as people say it is, I’m sure GM would have solve that problem early in the 400 long life.

I really think the converter ballooning concerns started with a pissing match between engine builders and transmission builders, with the car owner stuck in the middle. Car owner has a engine with a thrust bearing wiped out, engine builder blames the trans. Trans guy or converter builder can’t find a reason, blames the engine builder.

If you study the way a lockup converter functions, you will see the converter charge pressure in a 400 isn’t that big a deal.

Some converter builders have taken steps to eliminate potential converter charge problems by eliminating one spline from the turbine/converter pump to provide a vent for charge pressure. Since engine builders/transmission shops have no control over who builds the converter, I think the charge restrictor modification is just a “cover your ***” type of thing.

I have had 4 costumers with thrust bearing problems. All were turbo LS engines, all were either junkyard engines, or fairly fresh engines. I’m each case, they were transmissions that had been successfully used before. They might have swapped converters to better match the new engine, but in each case the transmission had some use on it.

Unless the customer requests the restrictor in the pump, I don’t bother with it.

 

I'm still struggling with why you want any shims between the converter and flexplate. If you are suggesting this to ensure pump drive tang engagement, then I understand, but that has nothing to do with thrust bearing wear, which is how this whole discussion started.

 

I agree, if everything is machined and assembled correctly, you shouldn’t have to shim anything. The guys on the assembly line putting these cars together didn’t lovingly measure and shim the converter, unless there is something wrong you shouldn’t have to in your garage.

If someone adds enough shim to remove all the clearance between the converter and flex plate, it’s possible to tear up the thrust bearing and almost certainly the pump of the transmission. Things move around during normal operation, and things expand hen they get hot. If you shim all the clearance out, the transmission will clearance things for you.

 

I never used washers till I went with an aftermarket 2000 to 2600 stall from Oregon Performance. All 4 aftermarket, high stall, including a Hughes converter, I have used have had space there, just less than than the first one and may not have leaked being sucked up tight. That OP converter had space for 3 washers easily. I sucked it up tight as Joe mentioned. I was rewarded with 2 Liters of expensive Mobil synthetic ATF on the ground during start up. I believe I used 2 washers, pushing it all the way back into the pump is obviously bad, as said things swell due to heat, especially if pushing above stock line pressures. The pump never failed but the converter imploded at the track, acted like a cheap 4000 stall. I think whoever made it, let quality lapse all around. Supposedly rated for 400 HP, yeah right, even 400 ft/lbs was a maybe. Honestly, the best thing to do is let the builder install the rebuilt trans and use washers as he sees fit. If it fails, it is on him, not you for an "improper" install. Good luck.

 

Just got the trans back from rebuild last night. New torque converter. Rebuilt pump, it was modified like a 700r4 pump i was told. Hardened input shaft a stonger boost valve. Getting bolted up in the next couple days. Only thing im uncertain of is the shift linkage.

 

Sounds good. Yeah, usually the 700 slide spring and either a 10 or 13 vane pump, stock is 7 and probably a .500"/.296" boost valves. With the hardened parts, it will help live behind your 330. What are your linkage issues.

 

The linkage issue i will have will be how to hook up the column shift to the 200r4.

 

I'm not familiar w/ the Jetstar linkage, but on my '68 Cutlass, I was able to use a linkage kit from Kugel Components that has an adjustable ratio between the column shifter and the trans shift lever. This allows you to maintain the P and N positions on the column so that the Reverse and Neutral safety switches still works as intended. While your dash gear indicator will be way off once you get past "N", there was no mechanical limitations in my column that prevents me from using all forward gear positions (1, 2, 3, OD), I just have to count the notches to know what gear I'm in (not a big issue since I use OD the vast majority of time). It also allowed me to ditch the frame-mounted portion of the factory linkage and make a little more room for headers (I'm not yet sure if this is sufficient yet). Check out the link in my signature for more details on my 200-4R swap (see post #9).

 

It doesnt matter to me about the dash i will fix that afterwards. Wasn't thinking about the neutral safety switch.

 

Im using the TCI kit for the lockup, looking at the vacuum line instructions it says to run the line to the carb if tcc lockup is erratic try moving the vacuum source to the manifold. Which is best here, carb or manifold. The old trans used the manifold.

 

You should NEVER use ported vacuum for a trans sensor. Most carbs have both ported and manifold vacuum ports.

 

Is the vacuum switch meant to be grounded through one of the mounting holes? And for everyday driving is a toggle switch necessary.

 

Yes, on the switch. No, the toggle switch is optional, only if you want manual control.

 

Made some progress on the car today. Things were going smoothly until i got to the speedometer cable it appears i can't reuse my cable from the original trans. Length is perfect however the threads don't seem to matchup.

 

Got the driveshaft this week.

 

Has anyone had any luck with a speedo cable on this setup. Factory cable is perfect length however the threads don't seem to matchup to the 200r4.

 

Weird, my speedo cable threaded right on. The 200-4R has some metric threads, is that possibly the difference? You'll probably need a new cable unless someone makes an adapter that goes from one thread to the other. It may also be possible to change the speedo gear housing cover (that has the cable threads) to a different one w/ different threads. Just shooting in the dark here.

 

I checked the threads on both with a vernier and thread gauges they seem very close. The threads on the speedometer housing on the transmission don't start right away. And seems like if the collar on the cable was longer it would thread on.

 

Are you sure that the square end of the center cable is seating fully into the speedo gear in the trans? That might prevent the collar from getting close enough to start threading. Another possibility is that the center cable has shifted and has pulled free from the speedometer in the dash and is now too long at the transmission end to allow the collar to start threading.

 

I used a standard speedo cable, that worked also with my TH400 connected to an Autometer unit.

 

Finally have everything all buttoned up. Started the car for the first time with the new trans. Is there anyway to get the neutral safety switch to work properly. Obviously it still starts in park but for some reason not in neutral.

 

So what linkage did you end up using between the column and the trans? If it was the Kugel kit w/ the adjustable trans lever arm, you need to adjust the distance between where the rod attaches to the arm and the pivot point on the trans shaft. This changes the ratio of angular distance your column shifter needs to travel vs. the shifter arm on the trans. The angular spacing of the "clicks" or notches between P and N on the 200-4R is different than other transmissions, so the trans lever arm needs to be adjusted so that the angular distance between P and N on the trans matches the angular distance between P and N on your column lever. This should line-up the NSS to your transmission and all should work dandy. Making accurate measurements of the linkage is a good way to start this process and get close, but a little trial-and-error will be needed to dial it in. Once P and N are aligned, R will fall right in place (I bet you didn't notice the reverse lights not working properly either).