455 on TH350 or 400
October 14th, 2012, 04:13 PM
#43
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mounting issues
I think I have an issue but am not sure so bear with me....
its been a while since I turned my engine by hand....the builder said it will be good for a long time as he has lots of assembly lube on there but I use to turn it by hand everynow and then anyway.
This is the first time I tried turning it since it was hooked to the TH350 and I cant turn it by hand. If I loosed the bolts from the tranny to the engine I can turn it. Is it normally this tight....I do not have a starter on yet to see if it spins but it just does not seem right.
to recap it is a 455 with a th350....I have new tranny mounts on as well
its been a while since I turned my engine by hand....the builder said it will be good for a long time as he has lots of assembly lube on there but I use to turn it by hand everynow and then anyway.
This is the first time I tried turning it since it was hooked to the TH350 and I cant turn it by hand. If I loosed the bolts from the tranny to the engine I can turn it. Is it normally this tight....I do not have a starter on yet to see if it spins but it just does not seem right.
to recap it is a 455 with a th350....I have new tranny mounts on as well
Last edited by CLcutlass; October 14th, 2012 at 04:15 PM.
October 14th, 2012, 04:21 PM
#44
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I think I have an issue but am not sure so bear with me....
its been a while since I turned my engine by hand....the builder said it will be good for a long time as he has lots of assembly lube on there but I use to turn it by hand everynow and then anyway.
This is the first time I tried turning it since it was hooked to the TH350 and I cant turn it by hand. If I loosed the bolts from the tranny to the engine I can turn it. Is it normally this tight....I do not have a starter on yet to see if it spins but it just does not seem right.
to recap it is a 455 with a th350....I have new tranny mounts on as well
its been a while since I turned my engine by hand....the builder said it will be good for a long time as he has lots of assembly lube on there but I use to turn it by hand everynow and then anyway.
This is the first time I tried turning it since it was hooked to the TH350 and I cant turn it by hand. If I loosed the bolts from the tranny to the engine I can turn it. Is it normally this tight....I do not have a starter on yet to see if it spins but it just does not seem right.
to recap it is a 455 with a th350....I have new tranny mounts on as well
October 14th, 2012, 04:34 PM
#45
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I guess it could be possible that the Torque Converter could add a little more resistance, but yes sir, I'd certainly make sure you don't have an issue with the torque converter not being properly seated around the front pump gear lugs, and not pushed up against them holding the motor locked and/or risk of breaking the pump gears or damaging the TC nose when you do try to fire it up. Were you able to spin the TC freely when you hooked up the TC bolts to the flywheel?
October 14th, 2012, 05:09 PM
#46
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Honestly ...I never tried it. Since the body is still off I can give that a try. I dont have much fluid in the tranny yet but that should not cause an issue. I changed all the external seals before I put it back it. I thought I tried the input shaft when I had it on the bench
Have you even bolted the converter to the flywheel yet? If not, try to spin the converter. If it don't spin; that's your problem right there. Without the converter bolted to the flywheel, and the bell housing bolts all tight, the converter should spin with very little one handed effort. IF not. Then the converter is likely not on the pump gear lugs properly, and the converter is smashed between the pump gear lugs and the flywheel binding it all up making the motor not able to turn over. So, if this is the case, and you put a starter to it, and it does turn it, then something is likely to break
October 14th, 2012, 05:15 PM
#47
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My buddy has an SS 454 Chevelle clone, has a mild build, intake, cam, headers, high comp KB pistons, a few other things here and there. Still runnin a TH350 behind it, its held up just fine for the past 5 years at least, probly quite a bit more than that but thats as long as ive known about it. Its not a stock motor by any means, and gets pounded on pretty good on a regular basis. I think a lot of parts are severely under-rated by people for that "just in case" factor and eventually the stigma sticks
Another thing that might affect it though, it has a non-posi rear with 2.73s, that should help protect the trans some. Killing a trans isnt from the power of the motor, its from the power and grip of a launch. Even a tiny trans will handle a big block for many many years if the power is brought on gradually, but when launching with sticky tires and posi thats what puts all the stress on the trans, and thats when you would need a TH400
To be blunt, with less gearing and street tires the TH350 will hold up for quite a while
Another thing that might affect it though, it has a non-posi rear with 2.73s, that should help protect the trans some. Killing a trans isnt from the power of the motor, its from the power and grip of a launch. Even a tiny trans will handle a big block for many many years if the power is brought on gradually, but when launching with sticky tires and posi thats what puts all the stress on the trans, and thats when you would need a TH400
To be blunt, with less gearing and street tires the TH350 will hold up for quite a while
October 14th, 2012, 05:25 PM
#48
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I hope your input shaft turns OK, and should be if you didn't change any thrust washers or allow the front drums to come out when you had the pump off. BUT, even if the input shaft is locked up on the trans, the motor will still turn, since the input shaft will be riding in the TC an with no fluid and rpm to couple the input shaft to the flywheel, the motor should still turn even with a locked up input shaft.
Have you even bolted the converter to the flywheel yet? If not, try to spin the converter. If it don't spin; that's your problem right there. Without the converter bolted to the flywheel, and the bell housing bolts all tight, the converter should spin with very little one handed effort. IF not. Then the converter is likely not on the pump gear lugs properly, and the converter is smashed between the pump gear lugs and the flywheel binding it all up making the motor not able to turn over. So, if this is the case, and you put a starter to it, and it does turn it, then something is likely to break
Have you even bolted the converter to the flywheel yet? If not, try to spin the converter. If it don't spin; that's your problem right there. Without the converter bolted to the flywheel, and the bell housing bolts all tight, the converter should spin with very little one handed effort. IF not. Then the converter is likely not on the pump gear lugs properly, and the converter is smashed between the pump gear lugs and the flywheel binding it all up making the motor not able to turn over. So, if this is the case, and you put a starter to it, and it does turn it, then something is likely to break
October 14th, 2012, 05:30 PM
#49
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Oh yeah, you goofed. That's your problem for certain. Loosen your bellhousing bolts then take the bolts off the flywheel to the converter. You could possibly get lucky and be able to get the converter nose keyed with the pump gear lugs. If not, you'll need to take the bell housing bolts out, back the trans up and get the converter on right first, then slide the trans up the to block and bolt it on first. Then pull the converter forward to the flywheel and bolt it up.
October 14th, 2012, 05:46 PM
#50
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Oh yeah, you goofed. That's your problem for certain. Loosen your bellhousing bolts then take the bolts off the flywheel to the converter. You could possibly get lucky and be able to get the converter nose keyed with the pump gear lugs. If not, you'll need to take the bell housing bolts out, back the trans up and get the converter on right first, then slide the trans up the to block and bolt it on first. Then pull the converter forward to the flywheel and bolt it up.
i'll give it a go....lesson learned.
October 14th, 2012, 06:10 PM
#51
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My buddy has an SS 454 Chevelle clone, has a mild build, intake, cam, headers, high comp KB pistons, a few other things here and there. Still runnin a TH350 behind it, its held up just fine for the past 5 years at least, probly quite a bit more than that but thats as long as ive known about it. Its not a stock motor by any means, and gets pounded on pretty good on a regular basis. I think a lot of parts are severely under-rated by people for that "just in case" factor and eventually the stigma sticks
Another thing that might affect it though, it has a non-posi rear with 2.73s, that should help protect the trans some. Killing a trans isnt from the power of the motor, its from the power and grip of a launch. Even a tiny trans will handle a big block for many many years if the power is brought on gradually, but when launching with sticky tires and posi thats what puts all the stress on the trans, and thats when you would need a TH400
To be blunt, with less gearing and street tires the TH350 will hold up for quite a while
Another thing that might affect it though, it has a non-posi rear with 2.73s, that should help protect the trans some. Killing a trans isnt from the power of the motor, its from the power and grip of a launch. Even a tiny trans will handle a big block for many many years if the power is brought on gradually, but when launching with sticky tires and posi thats what puts all the stress on the trans, and thats when you would need a TH400
To be blunt, with less gearing and street tires the TH350 will hold up for quite a while
I agree that a Th350 is underrated, and is good for moderate strength, but a Th400 is even stronger. Sometimes the stronger just isn't needed and is overkill. I prefer a Th350 over Th400 myself. A tad better first gear, lighter in weight, about 12 less horsepower robbed off the flywheel, and the shift points are more tuneable IMPO in a Th350 using the Detent cable that the Th400 does not have. I love a Th400 for the strength but that's about it.
October 14th, 2012, 06:16 PM
#52
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At least you learned cheaply and asked. Had you fired it up, if it would have started, many times they won't, but it can start. You would have been sure to tear something up if you started the motor.
Adding to my comment above about preferring Th350 over Th400, Th350 also comes in a Lock Up Converter variation and Th400 does not. But I don't recommend that for a street/strip ride. There are 2 mods I like to make to Th350 to make them a bit more durable and more tolerable of abuse. Change the Intermediate Roller Clutch to a 36 Element Sprag clutch with hardened race, and a hardened input shaft. That takes care of the 2 most common failures in the Th350 where they tend to break under abuse.
Adding to my comment above about preferring Th350 over Th400, Th350 also comes in a Lock Up Converter variation and Th400 does not. But I don't recommend that for a street/strip ride. There are 2 mods I like to make to Th350 to make them a bit more durable and more tolerable of abuse. Change the Intermediate Roller Clutch to a 36 Element Sprag clutch with hardened race, and a hardened input shaft. That takes care of the 2 most common failures in the Th350 where they tend to break under abuse.
October 15th, 2012, 07:05 PM
#53
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At least you learned cheaply and asked. Had you fired it up, if it would have started, many times they won't, but it can start. You would have been sure to tear something up if you started the motor.
Adding to my comment above about preferring Th350 over Th400, Th350 also comes in a Lock Up Converter variation and Th400 does not. But I don't recommend that for a street/strip ride. There are 2 mods I like to make to Th350 to make them a bit more durable and more tolerable of abuse. Change the Intermediate Roller Clutch to a 36 Element Sprag clutch with hardened race, and a hardened input shaft. That takes care of the 2 most common failures in the Th350 where they tend to break under abuse.
Adding to my comment above about preferring Th350 over Th400, Th350 also comes in a Lock Up Converter variation and Th400 does not. But I don't recommend that for a street/strip ride. There are 2 mods I like to make to Th350 to make them a bit more durable and more tolerable of abuse. Change the Intermediate Roller Clutch to a 36 Element Sprag clutch with hardened race, and a hardened input shaft. That takes care of the 2 most common failures in the Th350 where they tend to break under abuse.
Last edited by CLcutlass; October 15th, 2012 at 07:11 PM.
October 15th, 2012, 07:17 PM
#54
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Just a set of pump gears is all. You can do it yourself with some guidance. I mean you have at least some mechanical experience right? Set of pump gears is about $15, new pump gaskets about $3 and just because, throw a new front seal in just incase you tweaked it, another $2. By the time a shop marks up parts and labor, probably $100 for a carry in job. Do it yourself for about $20.
October 17th, 2012, 03:08 PM
#58
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if the gears are the same thickness...would the gear out of TH400 fir the th350. I have the 400 sitting on the floor ? I also have a gasket and o-rings for the pump.
I see on e-bay that they seem to be selling that fit both. I think that I am going to try this myself instead of taking it to a tranny shop
I see on e-bay that they seem to be selling that fit both. I think that I am going to try this myself instead of taking it to a tranny shop
October 17th, 2012, 05:07 PM
#59
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I wouldn't do that. The Th400 has 1 size of gears, Th350 has 3 different sizes that I'm aware of and the Th350C has 3 other different sizes. So you can't even really order your gears until you know which ones you need.
October 17th, 2012, 05:10 PM
#60
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I'm not sure how their prices are shipping to Canada, or if they even do. I've ordered several kits from these guys, for the prices I expected sub par crap. It wasn't at all. It was very good big name stuff. Tried then once, I've used them since and haven't been disappointed once.
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...rts_s/4648.htm
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...rts_s/4648.htm
October 17th, 2012, 05:18 PM
#61
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If you need some how-to help, here's a thread I put together some time ago on Th350 building on a site where I Admin/Mod. If CO doesn't have a problem with a link to other forums. It's not a competitor forum at all. It's a Chevy/GMC Squarebody truck forum.
If you have any questions, just post up here in this thread. I'm subrscribed so I'll be notified. I have plenty of of Th350 pics so if you get stuck, just ask.
http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/sh...?t=1045&page=3
If you have any questions, just post up here in this thread. I'm subrscribed so I'll be notified. I have plenty of of Th350 pics so if you get stuck, just ask.
http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/sh...?t=1045&page=3
October 17th, 2012, 05:21 PM
#62
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I'm not sure how their prices are shipping to Canada, or if they even do. I've ordered several kits from these guys, for the prices I expected sub par crap. It wasn't at all. It was very good big name stuff. Tried then once, I've used them since and haven't been disappointed once.
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...rts_s/4648.htm
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...rts_s/4648.htm
Awesome ...thanks I will check them out. I spoke to a guy tonight in the city just to see what it would cost to get him to do it. If the pump is not damaged it is about 80 bucks. I told him that i just put a shift kit and did the external seals and he asked me if I done anythng with the motor. He recommended that I should do a rebuild since the internal seals are 40 years old and the 455 is obviously more torque. He said he could beef up the TH350 to suit the 455 for about 600 bucks. I am thinking about going for it but the money keeps piling up on this car and it is far from driving
October 17th, 2012, 05:37 PM
#63
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If you actually do go into a seal freshen up, go ahead and get the hardened outer intermediate race. That is the #1 common failure of the Th350 especially in performance vehicles. Cautious getting one off of ebay. Just make sure it's a good one and not from China. The OE race is probably stronger than the hardened China race. transmissionpartsusa sells it too and a fair price.
October 17th, 2012, 06:46 PM
#64
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If you actually do go into a seal freshen up, go ahead and get the hardened outer intermediate race. That is the #1 common failure of the Th350 especially in performance vehicles. Cautious getting one off of ebay. Just make sure it's a good one and not from China. The OE race is probably stronger than the hardened China race. transmissionpartsusa sells it too and a fair price.
Definitely go with a quality part. I rebuilt a 4L60E for a friends warmed over Trans Am, he bought Ebay aftermarket 5 pinion carriers advertised for a 4L65E trans. They didn't last 400 miles. Put the stock carriers back in, been going strong for 2 years. You get what you pay for!
October 17th, 2012, 07:13 PM
#65
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Definitely go with a quality part. I rebuilt a 4L60E for a friends warmed over Trans Am, he bought Ebay aftermarket 5 pinion carriers advertised for a 4L65E trans. They didn't last 400 miles. Put the stock carriers back in, been going strong for 2 years. You get what you pay for!
I hope you left that seller on the 5 pinion planets, negative feedback so other will know they are selling junk.
October 18th, 2012, 06:10 AM
#66
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I'm not sure if he left negative feedback, I didn't buy the parts just built the trans for him. I do know the broken parts are on display in his garage on the "Wall of Shame".Every gearhead needs to have his broken parts and pieces mounted in a trophy case!
October 18th, 2012, 06:42 AM
#67
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I totally agree with you on that. I love carnage pics and self made trophies. I see Extreme 4x4 guys crying and complaining. I broke a driveshaft, or an axle. Well guys, you're in a sport, just like drag racers, you're bound to break parts. It shows you're playing hard and playing to the limits, so now rebuild and repair and make it stronger. A couple times of that, and you've got the recipe now. Not gonna play hard, may as well sit on the porch and be a spectator.
Now in this case, yeah it's wall of shame with Chinese junk.
Now in this case, yeah it's wall of shame with Chinese junk.
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