Well, I figured it would have to happen at some point. I went on a nice Sunday afternoon drive and thought I'd stop and get a carwash. I bought the wash and when I went to drive to the lane the engine was really sluggish and I had to have my foot deep in the gas to keep it running.

I turned her off, lifted the hood and stood a while figuring it was too hot.

A guy on his flooded motorcycle came over and we had a great conversation about the first generation Toronado. His family had a 66, a 67, a 68, a 70 and his dad (elderly) just bought another 66 in Autumn Bronze (my color too!) This guy seemed to know what he was talking about.

I left the gas station and made it about a mile before she came to a stop. I lifted the hood and saw some smoke coming from the passenger side of the engine bay. Before long some sputtering from the radiator hoses and most of the antifreeze dropped on the highway.

It was a bad day.

The tow driver was a great guy and knew his stuff about the 66 as well as telling me great stories about getting knocked off the haywagon by his dad's new automatic bale thrower! He says he blames his lot in life on the bale thrower which caught him in the head several times!

I hope this is a simple fix but I'll find out tomorrow. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what may have happened? It has a new water pump. Other than needing a lot of pedal to keep going down the highway it just seemed to be loosing power.

It felt really boggy even with being in neutral. I hope she's not broken to bad.

Here's to hoping all of you had a better Sunday!

Jeff in Minnesota

 

Did the HOT light come on?

Lost coolant = bad hose, bad radiator, bad water pump. Bad gasket (like thermostat housing or intake) is less likely, but possible.

What did you see when you looked at it?

- Eric

 

So it was running poorly, you pulled over, THEN it dumped its coolant?
Let us know where the coolant was coming from.
A blown hose would be easy to find. If it blew from the radiator overflow tube, then an engine malfunction could have caused it to overheat and the cap vented to relieve the pressure.
Tell us more!

 

i would say its a blown head gasket....cause she ran poorly.

she wouldnt do that when you only blew a coolant hose....i guess

 

UNLESS what he's really saying is that the car lost its coolant, overheated, began to run poorly, and THEN he finally pulled over and found that the coolant was gone.

I will admit that I'm confused.

- Eric

 

Personally I don't like to jump to conclusions, let's wait until he finds out where the coolant came from. It could be 1 of a dozen part failures.

 

I agree the story is a little confusing...but having just gone through a head gasket problem myself, I am leaning towards that as causing both the overheating problem and the poor running condition.

However, only he knows so we'll have to wait to find out.

 

I have had the opposite problem before. Car was running great, my coolant was lost somewhere in the engine block, and then I ended up finding it on the highway.

 

Sorry for the confusion. The car was hard to start and ran really sluggish after I had it turned off for about 5 minutes. The engine high temp light never came on. The engine seemed to choke itself when I stopped at a stop light. With the hood up and facing the engine is was smoking from behind the AC condenser. After about 5 minutes of being off the coolant hose down on the passenger side began so spit and the hot water was splashing me so I didn't look much longer.

I got a call from the garage...said my timing chain jumped and I was way off my timing. Carb was dumping HUGE amounts of fuel into the cylinders and it overheated from too much gas??? Possible??? They said they got it running only after rotating the cap and then the timing numbers were "way off". They haven't gotten the timing cover off yet but I'll let you know if this really is the case.

Jeff

 

if the timing is way off you have temp. issues..thats right..but i don't think its because you get too much gas then.

glad to hear its "only" a jumped timing chain...could have been worse

 

I am glad it wasn't worse. This is when I wish I had more mechanical knowledge than I do. I feel like a "back seat mechanic" sometimes.

I'll let you know how she runs when I get her back.

Jeff

 

This makes sense then. Get the timing set replaced, then think about changing all the coolant hoses, as none should have burst, unless the radiator cap was incorrect or not relieving the pressure.
Always use top quality hoses, too. I had a cheapo one blow out when I got home when it was 2 years old and at 190*.

 

I have to ask you all a question now...

The shop called and said there was a plastic gear or part of a gear that disintegrated. There are parts in the oil pan. I said "they could be in a worst spot huh?" The answer: "well the tranny has to be dropped to get the oil pan off to clean it out."

Is this true? I know the pan is unique and holds an extra quart of oil. I also seem to remember one of the half shafts goes through the pan. But does it really require the entire tranny to be dropped to get the pan off?

Also what is a plastic gear doing on a timing set? Seems kind of cheapo if you ask me.

Thank you for your advice and information.

Jeff

 

Hey Jeff,
Oldsmobile used a nylon timing cam gear from the factory to reduce the noise of the chain...your mechanic found what used to be the teeth in the oil pan and pickup!
Make sure he cleans the oil pump pickup as well! found a handful of plastic pieces in there when I dropped my oil pan..

 

The '72 CSM says to remove the engine assy to remove the pan, so it is probably safe to say it does need to be removed from the tranny. I do not think the 72 is that much different than yours for the oil pan removal.
Sorry about the misfortune, but it could have always been worse....

 

Ee Gads!

I feel my wallet getting thinner and thinner!

I did some searching and found the same information that the engine has to be dropped to get the oil pan off. Ouch!

Another question then about preventive maintenance.

If/when the engine is dropped and is sitting on the stand is there something or things that I should do to the engine while it out of the car? If it is otherwise running do I even want to think about having it rebuilt? It looks like its never been apart but are there things that should be done that should be done now because it'd be less expensive?

The tranny was rebuilt 3 years ago. I suppose if they have to disassemble the steering linkages (maybe) I could have the bushings replaced.

Let me know your thoughts...

Jeff

 

Get an all steel timming gear and not the GM style with the nylon teeth...my two seater chebby timming chain jumped and it bent six or seven valves at idle!!!

 

I will do my best to find the right all-steel gears. As of last night the engine was still in the car...I guess I have some time to find the right parts.


Jeff

 

A Cloyes true roller will last almost forever.
Since the water pump has to come off anyway - paint and replace it!
Belts, hoses and clamps are up to you - make sure the spring in the lower hose is switched to the new, as very few come with them anymore.
Good time to boil-out the radiator, too.
Did they check compression for bent-valves?
It IS a interference motor!!

 

... But not necessarily in that order.



- Eric

 

I decided to have them replace the fuel pump. The timing gears are all steel...NO NYLON. Water pump was just replaced about a month ago!

The lower radiator hose was a flex hose but I seem to think that many of the same era engine bays I have peered into have a preformed hose not a flex hose on the bottom. Are flex hoses just as strong? What is the spring you are referring to on the hose?

When I asked about compression testing they said they hadn't checked but when they turned the distributor they were able to get the engine to idle normally and didn't think it sounded damaged. The timing chain was still intact but the timing was more than 10degrees off.

I also asked them to replace the sway bar bushings that looked as old as the car...
Jeff

 

Welcome to the club!

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ing-gears.html

As a matter of fact the shop manual says that the engine has to come out of the car to replace the timing gears - or to remove the oil pan. But it's possible to replace the timing gears with the engine left in and just rise it a little. My shop did so. But this won't allow to clean the oil pan I'm afraid...

It's no problem to get timing gear set or radiator hoses - I think I got mine from Summit Racing.

Replacing the fuel pump is the easiest thing. If your engine ran smooth I think it can be done with only replacing timing chain and gears... but think about flushing the oil pan since they all say that the nylon stuff could stay in there (with normal oil change)...

 

Your lower hose should be a molded hose and not a "[insert disadvantaged ethnic group's name here] - looking" flex-hose.
The hose should have a large spring inside of it to hold it open against suction from the water pump.

- Eric

 

I never liked those flex hoses because of the extra strain they put on the radiator nipples. Some of those hoses were pretty stiff! They are not attractive either.

 

Well, I picked up the Toronado tonight from the shop. The damage is done to the wallet.

Ignition coil
New plug wires
New oil pump
Coolant after flush
New oil after flush
New belts
New fuel pump
Clean oil pan (after removing engine...you all were right)
New gaskets
New timing chain and gears ALL METAL NO NYLON
New rear main seal

MAWs
Sway bar bushings
Sway bar end link set
Steering dampener replaced

It hit me for about $2600. Yowza! I took it off their lot and wow does it feel great! Idles smoothe, builds power nicely and the steering is much tighter. I did hear a clunk when I went over a bump with the wheels turned...maybe a bad ball joint. I didn't want to get into that on this trip. I did see them riveted in so I will wait and save money before I do that.

All told I think I did everything I intended to do over the next few years at one time. At least the engine didn't get damaged!

Thanks for all your opinions and information!

Jeff

 

Wow - that was a chunk of cash! However, they did a lot of work. Glad you did the appropriate MAWs as well!
Now get that beauty on the road and cruise!