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For a while now I've had my eye out for a '77 Toronado XS to go along with my '78. About a week and half ago, I found a good candidate. It was in Owensboro, Kentucky, so I flew out there last weekend to see it in person, and I ended up buying it. It was loaded on the truck early this morning (Easter morning), and it should be here Tuesday the 6th.
It has about 80,000 miles on it, which is pretty much exactly what was on my '78 when I acquired it in 2017. Like any of these cars, it needs some things. The power lock on the driver's side doesn't work. The trunk won't open with the key, so the only way to open it is with the remote open button in the glovebox. The power antenna won't go up (tell me about it.) Things like that. But I took it for a test drive, and runs pretty well, although I will give it a full tune-up among other things.
One thing I like is that the rear fender extensions are in excellent shape. I think they're replacements as they're stiff, like the replacements on my '78, but, more importantly, that's an issue I won't have to deal with.
The purchasing experience could not have gone better. The seller is a young man in his early 30s who bought the car about a year ago simply because, he said, he liked the unusual body style with the wrap-around glass. Can't fault him for that! I asked why he's selling it, and he said it was more than he wanted to handle, mechanically, as he's not mechanically inclined and had all of his maintenance work done by a local mechanic. He works for his father who owns two restaurants in Owensboro as the manager of one of them. One of the two restaurants is the #1 rated restaurant in Owensboro on Tripadvisor. They very kindly invited me to dinner, their treat, to that #1 restaurant the second night I was there. Really very nice people.
Some photos of the new acquisition, including a low-resolution cell-phone photo of it being loaded on the truck this morning.
Here's the one it will join. Now it's the younger brother. I'm looking forward to photographing them together.
Here's the restaurant. Not really car-related, I know, but hey. They deserve a shout-out. Colby's Fine Food and Spirits in Owensboro if you're ever in the area.
Congrats! You now have both versions of the MISER system.
TWO second generation Toronados. Compasses from miles around will point to your garage from the concentration of all of that metal
The new addition looks very nice!
Congratulations your latest acquisition!!!! It is a real beauty. It has definitely found a good home with you.
Ahhh.. the joys of 2 irreplaceable and different MISAR systems and unobtainium rear window glass - lol!
But we do need to talk about the non standard body side moulding on your new ride - lol!
Gee with the addition of this second Toronado to your garage, the total combined weight will surely lower your part of New Mexico at least 5-6 feet closer to sea level.
Are they exactly the same both years? I had thought they were slightly different. Do you know what the differences are?
I believe the main difference is '77 has the ignition pickup equipment on the driver's front of the engine, where the '78 moved it inside the distributor. Here are pics of mine during a water pump swap. It was all right in the open, so I thought it'd be a good time to document, so to speak.
Seeing that antifreeze - geesh, I can smell this picture.
Right in front of the harmonic balancer, there's a slotted disk. There's a bracket with a pickup on it on the driver's side of the front of the engine.
I'm sure that your '78 wants you to ground out a certain pin on the controller in the dash by the glovebox when you set the timing? The '77 needs that also. But, you never turn the distributor. There's a screw on the bracket that adjusts the position of the pickup. THAT'S how you're supposed to adjust the timing, per the books.
Here are a couple of more shots of the same pieces from different angles.
I think 77Toro is correct as to the difference. The 77 has that external crank sensor and on the 78 it is I believe internal in the distributor. The temp sense is common to both I believe but does not appear to do anything with timing as both Jaunty and I have experienced. The other more likely contributor are the vacuum lines that run to/from the MISAR control box.
Thanks, guys, for the photos and the comments. Yes, the manual does say to ground a pin on the controller under the dash when setting the timing, but I've never tried to set the timing on my '78 in the four years now that I've had it. It never seemed to need it.
That external pickup looks awfully exposed. Are replacements available? I'm guessing not.
This is going to be interesting!
Here's another couple of photos of the car, including one of the interior. These are from the seller, who sent me about 100 photos prior to my going out there to see it in person. Same color interior as my '78, but this one has the standard ("pillow top?") upholstery rather than the leather in my '78.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the car has dual exhaust. I don't see this listed as an option in either the '77 or '78 dealer albums. Was this an option, or has a prior owner done a modification?
Jaunty, my 77 Toronado also has dual exhausts and it came that way when my dad bought the car 44 years ago. I don't know if was an option, it just has always been that way. Duals are not something my dad would have ever considered paying extra for - either as an option or aftermarket so I am going to assume it came that way as standard equipment.
I do see that you have the optional passenger outside mirror with the correct dash mounted control by the clock. Now that is cool. You may recall that I struggled for ages trying to locate the dash escutcheon to properly mount mine and in the end gave up and converted it to a standard manual mirror.
I really like the pillow top interior, think you will too. Although it looks like you driver seat could use a little tlc.
Dang the chrome on your new car looks great.
So what are the things you need to do to it and what are the first items on the list. Hope you post lots of threads with pictures.
Jaunty, my 77 Toronado also has dual exhausts and it came that way when my dad bought the car 44 years ago. I am going to assume it came that way as standard equipment.
I remember now that you said this. I would assume it was an option even if the sales albums don't mention it.
One thing I'm planning to do is write to the GM Heritage Center and order the dealer invoice for the car. You'll recall that they offer this service for any 1977 and later Oldsmobile. I obtained the invoice for my '78, and it shows all the options the car came with as well as the dealer to whom it was delivered. I'll be interested to see if dual exhaust is listed as an option.
You should be able to order one for your car as well, if you're interested.
I do see that you have the optional passenger outside mirror with the correct dash mounted control by the clock. Now that is cool. You may recall that I struggled for ages trying to locate the dash escutcheon to properly mount mine and in the end gave up and converted it to a standard manual mirror.
I remember this episode. I save the photos from every '77 and '78 Toro sales ad I see, and I don't think I've ever seen a '77 or '78 that DIDN'T have the remote passenger mirror. It was an option, not standard equipment, but I'm guessing it was a popular option and that your car is one of the few that wasn't ordered with it. Again, the vehicle invoice would tell you. Also, if a passenger side mirror was ordered, it was automatically remote control. A manual passenger side mirror was not offered on the Toro or the 98, only on the 88 and Custom Cruiser.
Originally Posted by ByronF
I really like the pillow top interior, think you will too. Although it looks like you driver seat could use a little tlc
Yes, there are some issues there that I hope a local upholsterer can address
Originally Posted by ByronF
So what are the things you need to do to it and what are the first items on the list. Hope you post lots of threads with pictures.
I actually only saw the car for about 20 minutes total, so I didn't get a chance to go through it thoroughly. I'll of course do that once it arrives, which is supposed to be tomorrow (April 6). The few things I do know that need attention, some of which I've already mentioned, are that the A/C doesn't work (there is no A/C fan belt in place, but the compressor is there), power antenna won't go up, driver's power door lock doesn't move (passenger side works ok), and the key cannot open the trunk as it can be turned only about half-way before it binds up. I'm hoping a little lubrication will fix this, but the trunk can be opened using the remote button in the glovebox.
Wow someone has taken good care of that car! It looks great!
what are the plans will you keep both cars ?
Thanks, and, YES, I'm keeping both cars. That's the whole point! The seller asked me if there were any other Toronados I wanted to own, and I told him, yes, any other year Toros that came with that wrap-around back glass.
Jaunty,
The two '77's that I've messed with both have/had single exhaust. Mine still does. I had duals put on my Dad's car, which had a stock single exhaust.
Thanks. I would like to find out the story on the dual exhaust situation, whether it was a factory option or not. As I said, maybe the dealer invoice will have something to say.
I haven't ever shipped a car like that before. If you don't mind sharing, what's a ballpark figure on what they charged for that 1400 mile journey (with Olds)?
About $1200 for "cash" payment, about $1280 if you pay by credit card. The "cash" payment usually means that you give them a $200 deposit by credit card once the reservation is made and then you pay the driver in cash or cashier's check (they prefer cash, in my experience) the balance when he drops the car off. If you pay for the whole thing by credit card, they charge a little more, but then you don't have to deal with cash at the time of delivery.
What's kind of funny is that this marks the third time I've had a car shipped a significant distance over the last 10 years, and the cost was about the same each time. In 2012, when we moved from Ohio to New Mexico, I drove my '73 Custom Cruiser out here, but I had my '67 Delta 88 shipped. Cost? About $1100. As I recall, I got a bit of a discount because the same company that did the move of our household goods also had a car-shipping service, and they gave me a discount for using them.
Then in 2017 I had my current '78 shipped here from Georgia. Cost? About $1300. It was a little more because the car was in non-running condition. Now the current shipment, from Kentucky to New Mexico, about $1200.
Thanks. I had no idea it was that reasonable.
I almost bought a car in North Dakota and was exploring my options of getting it to Florida. I figured shipping it would be several thousand dollars, so I was weighing the gas of driving my Suburban out to tow it back, or fly out with a few tools and drive it home. Much to my wife's relief, someone bought it before I decided which was best. .
I remember the pics of your '78 when it was for sale. You've done an outstanding job with that car! This new one looks really nice.
Now for the important part - the tag. You already have "TOTAL XS" for the '78. The '77 is going to feel neglected if you don't get one for it, too.
My suggestions -
MORE XS
EXCESS XS or XS XS
XS-IVE
Thanks. I would like to find out the story on the dual exhaust situation, whether it was a factory option or not. As I said, maybe the dealer invoice will have something to say.
I don't think true duals were possible from the factory in the post-catalytic converter era. Even cars that appeared to have dual exhaust, like Corvettes and Trans-Ams, routed everything through one CC before splitting the pipes and having the gases exit through dual outlets.
Last edited by BangScreech4-4-2; Apr 5, 2021 at 10:25 AM.
Now for the important part - the tag. You already have "TOTAL XS" for the '78. The '77 is going to feel neglected if you don't get one for it, too.
My suggestions -
MORE XS
EXCESS XS or XS XS
XS-IVE
I've already thought of this, and I actually thought of XSIVE as the one to go with. I don't think I can do hyphens on a license plate, so it's either XS IVE or XSIVE. I think all one word is the way to go as the XS IVE will have people reading it as "XS I've."
The car finally arrived about 8:30 p.m. local time, which was well after dark. So I really couldn't get any good photos of the delivery. But I did take one photo of it in my garage to document that it is actually here!
Overall, not a bad delivery experience. I finalized the contract with the shipper by phone on Sunday afternoon March 28. I told them that the car was immediately available for pickup, which for practical purposes meant the next day, Monday, March 29. One week to the day later the car is here. Can't complain about that.
If anyone is interested, I used Montway Auto Transport.
Here it is, safely ensconced in my garage. What I really want to do is get this one and the '78 (now known as "the red one," according to my wife, while this one is---you guessed it---"the white one") photographed side-by-side.
Yes, the hood is up slightly. I was looking around under there and didn't want to fully close it because I was just going to open it up again after taking the photo.
I don't think true duals were possible from the factory in the post-catalytic converter era. Even cars that appeared to have dual exhaust, like Corvettes and Trans-Ams, routed everything through one CC before splitting the pipes and having the gases exit through dual outlets.
The car does, in fact, have a true dual exhaust system. There are two exhaust manifolds on the engine and separate pipes running all the way back to the rear of the car. It also appears that there are no catalytic converters, which explains the loud exhaust note. I'm told that, if I ever have exhaust work done on the car, the shop would be required by law to replace the catalytic converters.
I'm told that, if I ever have exhaust work done on the car, the shop would be required by law to replace the catalytic converter.
I'd have to think there would be an exemption for limited mileage collector vehicles or vehicles of a certain age. At any rate, the exhaust appears to be in pretty good shape, so with any luck at all you won't need to worry about it for a few years.
It was so difficult to read in place that I removed it from the car, cleaned it up, and found the best angle from which to take a photo. But it's still hard to read everything.
I think I've got most of it.
Starting at the top.
3 = Oldsmobile
EW = Toronado XSR according to the chassis service manual, even though the car is not an XSR, which was never produced. According to the service manual, the code here for the base Toronado Brougham and the Toronado XS was the same, EZ. So the top line presumably should have been 3EZ57, not 3EW57. My '78 has the same 3EW at the top, but W doesn't show up at all in the '78 chassis service manual, and you would think that, by the '78 model year, Olds would have been well aware that the XSR was not going to be built as the decision not to build it was made at the start of the '77 model year. But I don't know anything for sure.
57 = two-door coupe
LAN = Lansing assembly plant
TR 71C = Dark Firethorn (71) interior color with cloth (C) seats
PNT 11 = white exterior lower body color
PNT 11T = white exterior upper body color
05C = build date = third week of May 1977. That's a relatively late model year build. By contrast, my '78s date code is 08C, third week of August 1977, so a very early model year build.
AM6 = ? This same code is on the cowl tag of my '78, and I have never been able to figure out what it means. There are no option codes that begin "AM" in the dealer album for either model year.
CO4 = landau roof covering. CO4 is the option code for this in the dealer album
71X = ? My '78, in this same place, has 74X. I've not been able to figure out exactly what either means, but I think it refers to the color of something because the 71 is the same as the TR code, referring to the "dark firethorn" color of the interior. On my '78, the TR code is 742, where 74 refers to the "dark carmine" seat color and the 2 means leather upholstery. So the 74X parallels the 742 on my '78 like the 71X parallels the 71C on my '77. I don't know what the X means.
CF = electric astroroof (power moonroof, which the car has), but the dealer album option code is actually CF5, not just "CF." If there's a 5 to the right of the F, it has been pretty much obliterated by the screw hole. But I don't think there is or was ever a 5.
