Headers and Supremes
December 23rd, 2009, 09:51 AM
#1
Old(s) Fart
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Headers and Supremes
I was checking the latest Hooker Headers catalog this morning (actually checking the specs on a set of headers on craigslist) and I noticed that Hooker's catalog still carries a prominent "headers do not fit Cutlass Supreme". The week before the holiday is always slow at work so I figured I'd torment the tech support line. Here's the transcript:
Oh well. Maybe this is a candidate to add to the "why are people so stupid" thread. Even better, maybe everyone here with headers on their Supremes can email photos to Ricky.
rickyrichter@holley.com
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Why does your catalog continue to claim that your Cutlass headers do not fit Cutlass Supreme? I''ve owned over two dozen Cutlass/442 cars over the last 35 years and have seen many successful installations of your headers in Supremes and convertibles. There is absolutely NO difference between the Supreme and any other Cutlass/442 forward of the firewall. According to the factory parts book, frames, suspensions, motor mounts, block, etc are all the same. The only difference is the roofline (and prior to 1970, even that was the same). This is a standing joke in the Olds community and all you're doing is hurting your sales.
Originally Posted by Ricky V. Richter at Hooker Headers
Hi,
thanks for your e-mail
all the info and test fits we have
the supreme engine sets off to one side
and a non supreme the engine is center
we have a lot of customers that buy them for a supreme and they do not fit
the best thing to do is see if the carb air cleaner stud is center of the engine bay, if it is they will fit
in most cases it will not be center
Thanks Ricky
thanks for your e-mail
all the info and test fits we have
the supreme engine sets off to one side
and a non supreme the engine is center
we have a lot of customers that buy them for a supreme and they do not fit
the best thing to do is see if the carb air cleaner stud is center of the engine bay, if it is they will fit
in most cases it will not be center
Thanks Ricky
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Yes, I have personally measured the air cleaner stud (and crank centerline, which is a more accurate measurement) in several Supremes and they were all centered (within production tolerances). I can also assure you that the factory parts book lists the same part numbers for the block, motor mounts, frame mounts, exhaust manifolds, frame, trans crossmember, etc, etc, etc. The engines are NOT offset. There are no spacers that would cause this, and frankly, if the motors were offset as you suggest, then things like the trans crossmember, trans backdrive linkage (that runs between the trans and the frame), exhaust pipes, etc. would all be different. They are not. Similarly, the A/C box, steering shaft, radiator hoses, fuel lines, etc are all identical. The trans hump in the firewall is not "offset", yet the clearance is the same.
Given that the entire front clip and doors interchange between the Supreme and the regular Cutlass/442, WHERE does the "offset" come from? I've got $1000 for the first person who can prove this alleged offset in the 1967-1972 cars.
Joe Padavano
Given that the entire front clip and doors interchange between the Supreme and the regular Cutlass/442, WHERE does the "offset" come from? I've got $1000 for the first person who can prove this alleged offset in the 1967-1972 cars.
Joe Padavano
Originally Posted by Ricky V. Richter
If yours is centered Good
go on and use them
there will not be any problem
Thanks Ricky
go on and use them
there will not be any problem
Thanks Ricky
rickyrichter@holley.com
December 23rd, 2009, 11:17 AM
#4
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In their case it sounds like a "We have had a few compliants, lets cover our a$$ with disclaimer so we can say we warned you" Some companies use this as an excuse to handle customer complaints even when they know better. See it all the time in my line of work.
December 23rd, 2009, 06:37 PM
#7
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December 23rd, 2009, 07:06 PM
#9
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this is Bob Lynch ... I still have a new set, chromed, in the box ... did not fit convertible I gusess so they were extras ... will 300 be a fair price ... mine is a 69 rag top with 455 ... anyone want pics? blynch@fusioncmg.com 949 466 7873 for more info ...
December 24th, 2009, 08:08 AM
#11
Old(s) Fart
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this is Bob Lynch ... I still have a new set, chromed, in the box ... did not fit convertible I gusess so they were extras ... will 300 be a fair price ... mine is a 69 rag top with 455 ... anyone want pics? blynch@fusioncmg.com 949 466 7873 for more info ...
Again, forward of the firewall, the convertible and hardtop frames are the same. If headers fit the hardtop they will fit the convertible. The only difference in the frames is the boxed rails under the rocker panels, and if your headers are sticking out that far, there's something very wrong.
December 24th, 2009, 09:31 AM
#12
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Location: Erie,PA
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That whole Supreme BS myth is still alive??!!!
If the headers are made for 68-72 Cutlass/442,then they will fit ALL 68-72 Cutlass/442,& yes 4-doors & wagons too.
I would really like to know how that BS got started.
If the headers are made for 68-72 Cutlass/442,then they will fit ALL 68-72 Cutlass/442,& yes 4-doors & wagons too.
I would really like to know how that BS got started.
December 24th, 2009, 09:33 AM
#13
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Location: Coto de Caza CA
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k Joe ... wish I had met you a lot earlier ... this project has been loaded with frustration ... seemed like life was easier back in the 60s when I did most of my work laying in dirt and washing my parts in gas that I kept handy in a 2# coffee can next to my plie of parts ... always seemed to have parts left over though ... that's a good thing since it takes weight off the car, right? Bob
April 25th, 2010, 02:43 PM
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April 25th, 2010, 04:10 PM
#16
Old(s) Fart
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April 29th, 2010, 07:20 PM
#18
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I have a "expensive" set of Hooker headers that did not fit. bought a set of Headman's that say they dont fit the supreme and had no problem. my guess is that Hooker has made the big tube headers wrong all these years and uses the "we said they wont fit" excuse to cover their butts. for the record nearly every set of Hookers that I have had needed to be bent, beat and battered to make them fit. I will never use their headers again.
July 12th, 2010, 06:39 AM
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Last edited by kurtdaniel; July 12th, 2010 at 07:48 PM.
July 12th, 2010, 09:10 PM
#21
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Stuff like this defies logic. If the engine were offset(WHY?) then the Supremes would need there own transmission tunnel(separate floorpan), and a special rear axle as well. The only way the engine would be offset in the Supreme vs the S or F85 is if the car had been in a front end collision.
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