Does anyone know if the exaust ports on olds 215 heads are the same as those on buick 215 heads. Im looking to get headers for my 63 f85 with a 215, but the only headers I could find for 215's are listed for buicks.

If anyone knows the answer to my question or where I can find headers for an olds 215, I would greatly appretiate it.

Thanks
63 F85 Cutlass

P.S. If anyone knows of any good suppliers for 215, or pre 64 F-85's let me know. As a few others have mentioned there a unique animal, and there isn't a whole lot out there for them. I have found that D & D Fabrications, and Kanter are pretty good, but they don't cover all the bases, and it seems D & D is more geared towards putting the 215's in MG's (the headers they supply won't clear motor mounts on stock 215 vehicles, only in mg's which I find an anoyance)

 

I don't think the Buick 215 and Olds 215 are anything alike. I don't know of any aftermarket suppliers for Olds 215 parts. I bought my 394 parts from Kanter, Fusick, and any salvage yard with a parts car.

 

Thanks Olds64, I'll probly end up getting the headers for the MG in that case, and angle them out 30 degrees or so at the flanges so they'll clear my motor mounts, but if anyone else out there knows where to get headers for an olds 215 let me know.

Peace,
63 F85 Cutlass

 

I would be hesitant to purchase MG headers. Wait a few days. Once Joe P., or some of the other guys see this thread they should be able to give you a straight answer.

 

The Olds and Buick (and Rover) 215 motors are VERY similar. The Olds versions used unique heads that had different valve covers, but the intake and exhaust ports are the same. FYI, the Rover EFI system bolts up.

 

'61/63 Buick and Olds exhaust ports are the same. "64 Buick 300 cid heads will fit also along with the exhaust manifolds. They flow much better. The 300 exhaust manifolds fit the 215 heads, but the angle is different when using in the 61/63 car. the muffler shop will have to fab head pipes for you. I would think the headers from D&D should work. They mount the engine in the same location when in the MG. All you can do is sheck them out, maybe get some info from them. The weak link is the trans, it won't take much abuse or power. Finding a shop to repair the trans will be another problem. Maybe "Tran-dapt" will have a way to adapt a late model trans.

Gene

 

Thanks guys

Now I can do my exaust

Evrywhere else I tried evryone could only tell me the combustion chambers were different which I knew, you guys are awesome, less than a day posted and all this feedback!

In regards to buick 300 heads, are you saying I can put heads of a buick 300 on my 215? because I am looking to replace the heads, I was looking at the high output heads off an olds that would give me a 10.75-1 compression ratio, but I'm intrigued.

Thanks for the EFI tip, I think I'll leave it carbed for now b/c im not to savvy with computers, but maybe down the road.

In terms of my tranny, I was already looking for a 700R4 out of an Iroc Z. They were designed for a similar powerband, and D&D makes adapters to hook them up. Unfortunately I'm a poor colledge kid, so money is tight, but I have the mony hidden away for exaust, much needed paint, and a little to put twards the top end.

thanks again
Ryan

 

There you go. I knew someone would chime in that knew for sure.

 

Yes, the 300 heads are a bolt-on. The 300 motors used aluminum heads with a cast iron block. You and also swap in the 300 crank and get a 300 cu in aluminum V8.

 

I think the 700r4 is to much for the 215. I think a 200r4 would be a better choice. You will need some better gear ratio in the back for when you go into overdrive you will lug the engine down too much.

Gene

 

Thanks again guys

To joe p.
Have you or used or seen anyone use the 300 heads on a 215? I was just wondering how well it actually worked, I'm in connecticut, and I haven't seen anyone with a 215 in the cruises I frequent at, so it gets attention, but I don't have any others to look at.

to gene
in regards to a trans, do you think the overdrive would lug me down that significantly? I've got 3.36-1 rear, about 185 horse, and 210 ft/lb torque, and the output should be a good bit better after new heads, hotter cam, edelbrock intake and carb, as well as a few other add ons. Its also a fairly light car.But I am all ears because I won't pretend to know everything, I'm fairly new to most of this, and Im open to Ideas.

Thanks again guys
-Ryan

 

Ryan,
You have to figure the 300 heads are bigger ports and valves. So you put them on a small cube motor it takes more to fill them. Your best bet would be to do work on the 215 heads. A little port work and maybe a bigger valves. '64 300 heads are alumium, the '65's are steel. You need to take measurements to figure out your compression.
Also figure if you hit overdrive and the rpm's drop to 1200 which is out of the power range. Now with a numerical higher gear ratio you bring the rpm up to a reach your power band.

Gene

 

They will physically bolt on, using one less bolt per cylinder, but combustion chambers/pistons (possibly rods) are way different. They might work with 215 Buick pistons/rods if the chambers are close to the same, or can be worked.

For reference: Olds rods are 5.66" center to center, don't know about Buick.

You'll need to go .250" over, on the bore, to get 300". Cylinder liners would no longer exist.

215 bore (3.5") and 300 stroke (3.4") would be 262 inches, and would give it some much needed low end.

Before I looked at a 300 crank, I would check the main and rod diameters. 215 mains are 2.3" and rods are 2.125". Also, pistons/rod sizes would need to be addressed.

Heads were the same, pistons were different.

Norm

 

In regards to Heads

I'm probably sticking with the high compression 215 heads, but I figured I'd check it out.

I've looked at the 300 crank before, I know that with the rover 300 cranks you need to have the mains turned down, but I don't know if thats the same for buick 300 cranks. I am interested in stroking the motor to a 262. but Ill also need new rods and pistons.

What I know of buick 215s is that they used different pistons to up the compression, wheras olds used different heads, So I either plan to stroke it, or use one of the types of higher compression pistons with the olds heads I'm pretty set on getting.I do think stroking it is the best bet, but I'll need to wait till summer to take it apart because I'm at school now, and I need to go to my uncles to do it, he's got the tools and a garage, all I have is my basic set of tools, a 45degree angle of a driveway, and no engine crane or stand.

For the rear end, do you think a 3.77 would be a good ratio?

Wow I think I'm gonna have to start selling blood to get this project in full swing

Thanks Guys, I also need to paint the car (the original paint is starting to chip), if you have any I deas for it let me know, I posted pics of it in the gallery as "1963 F-85 Cutlass" I'm leaning twards just redoing it white with a flat black hood like it is, but I'm open to ideas.

-Ryan

 

Different dishes. I don't know the volumes.

Same heads, different pistons.

Low compression = flat top.
High compression = Domed.

Norm

 

For the most part the heads are the same. The Olds heads have one more bolt per cyl. The Buick has a different configuration for the nailhead style valve cover. I don't remember for sure but I think the rocker arm shaft assy is bolted differently.

Gene

 

You might be right. Another thing for the OP to check.

I never tried to interchange them, just cleaned them up and put them back on the same heads.

Norm

 

I've heard you can use the buick heads on an olds, but not vis-versa. I'm set on which heads I'm getting, now I'm just waiting on the price quote from D&D. I've found a set of hedman headers listed for rover/buick 215's, but I'm still a little cautious.

 

They will physically interchange.

Both block castings are identical. Only difference, the Olds had an extra hole drilled and tapped for a fifth head bolt per cylinder.

Buick head would work fine, with 4 bolts, on an Olds block and an Olds head would work equally well, with 4 bolts, on a Buick block.

Except for the pistons:





High compression Buick piston & Low compression Olds piston.

Do you think they would work equally well, if both heads had the same combustion chamber configuration?

Norm

 

Thanks

For pistons I'm sticking with the stock olds ones for now, because when I eventually stroke it, I'll need vega or ford pistons. D&D has everything required for stroking a 215, and they even have a chart of piston and rod options.It says if I use the 38cc olds heads I'm looking at, and the vega pistons I'll have a 10.77-1 compression ratio on the 262 (stroked 215)

Just for kicks I checked one of those horespower and torque calculators using displacement and the stock power curves. I know there not spot on but just for a fun estimate.

247 Horse Power
270 ft/lbs torque

Which I'd be thrilled with

For kicks I also put in one of D&D's most radical setup involving Ford pistons, chevy rods, and the heads I'm looking into. 13.39-1 Compression

Hp:306
ft/lbs:335

Which would be intense, but I don't want to go overboard with compression.

Theres a lot of setups I could use but I'll be doing heads, exhaust, before I can think about stroking it.

Thanks again guys, check out the pics of my 63 F85 Cutlass and let me know what i should do for paint. I'm probably just going to redo it white with the black hood, but I'm up for Ideas.

Peace
-Ryan

 

I just bought a Buick Skylark Special convertible with the 215cid. I picked it up for $2k and it's in good shape. It runs, drives and actually has very few dents or rust-through. Transmission seems a bit weak and I’m hoping an overhaul kit will fix me up.

The exhaust is toast and I am looking for a set of headers to get started. Can anyone point me to a place to buy them? Based on this thread it sounds like I will need to have the remaining exhaust custom made but that's expected.

My twist on this is I plan to drop the front by at least 2" and want to know if I will have issues with headers/duals.

I realize you guys are an Oldsmobile site but this thread is as close as I have found for good information.

 

I havn't found heads specifically for buick skylark/specials or olds f85/cutlass. It seems that headers for all rover/buick/olds 215s will phisically bolt to the heads, but I havn't been able to confirm weather or not they will fit in buick/olds engine bays. It seems most of the headers out there are designed for roadster or boat applications. The guy at D&D Fabrications said their 215 headers won't fit a GM unibody but if you called him back he seemed to know how you can mod them to fit, but I had trouble understanding him. If you find anything let me mknow, Im still looking around for some as well.

 

Ryan

I am new to the forum but I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I have a '62 Cutlass with a D&D motor running a 5 speed and dual exhausts using stock exhaust manifolds. I was told by both Mark and Dan that using the 300 manifolds would create clearance problems but talking to another fellow, he informed me that Mark modified the 300 manifold to work in his '62. I want to keep it simple but want better exhaust flow so if I can't use the 300 manifolds, I will probably use their header flange kit and get a set of headers custom bent but I'm sure this will be expensive. But this is not the real reason that I am writing. You mention using a set of 3.77 rear gears. I have been looking for over 7 years for a set of any gear lower then the 3.36. If you have this gear set, where did you get it, who manufactures it? Does any body out there have a set of 3.70 or lower gears that they would part with.

Love the forum

Warren