Massive coolant loss - freeze plug?
#1
Massive coolant loss - freeze plug?
Yikes!
Today after a short 3 mile drive (getting pizza), my 350 is losing coolant. Not just a few drops, I guess by now it's around 4 liters. I think it's the rear driver side freeze plug, but I'd like to get some ideas (and yes, I know they're not really freeze plugs):
It's pouring down behind the driver side motor mount, down the oil pan and the inside of the starter. Bright green clear coolant.
Now I'm too big to get beneath the car far enough, so here's a few pictures
Image taken some weeks ago when the car was on ramps with the front wheels. Circled the area where it's running down:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_01.jpg)
Another pic from the 'net that somewhat assures me the freeze plug has left the building:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_02.jpg)
Shot from the '70 engine manual, I can't seem to find another reason for such a large leak nearby besides the plug:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_03.jpg)
Any hints, ideas?
What size is that plug?
What material to select?
Are those rubber plugs any good?
Are Chebby plugs the same? Olds parts are somewhat harder to come by around here, Chebby plugs may be obtainable within a few days.
I guess up with it, take off the starter, old plug out, new one in?
Yalp, freeze plug virgin!
Thanks, guys!
Today after a short 3 mile drive (getting pizza), my 350 is losing coolant. Not just a few drops, I guess by now it's around 4 liters. I think it's the rear driver side freeze plug, but I'd like to get some ideas (and yes, I know they're not really freeze plugs):
It's pouring down behind the driver side motor mount, down the oil pan and the inside of the starter. Bright green clear coolant.
Now I'm too big to get beneath the car far enough, so here's a few pictures
Image taken some weeks ago when the car was on ramps with the front wheels. Circled the area where it's running down:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_01.jpg)
Another pic from the 'net that somewhat assures me the freeze plug has left the building:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_02.jpg)
Shot from the '70 engine manual, I can't seem to find another reason for such a large leak nearby besides the plug:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/coolant_loss_03.jpg)
Any hints, ideas?
What size is that plug?
What material to select?
Are those rubber plugs any good?
Are Chebby plugs the same? Olds parts are somewhat harder to come by around here, Chebby plugs may be obtainable within a few days.
I guess up with it, take off the starter, old plug out, new one in?
Yalp, freeze plug virgin!
Thanks, guys!
#3
I agree that it looks like a Welch plug leak, but, as Pat said, if you drain the rest of the coolant, fill it up with water, raise it up in the air, and pressurize it with a tester, or with any homemade device you can concoct, you should be able to be certain in just a few minutes.
- Eric
- Eric
#5
Thanks so far. Ordered a Milodon 34045 set with the correct 1-5/8" brass plugs.
#7
Sssshhhhh, don't tell me!
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I did see there's a coolant passage up to the head in the block and I'm well aware it could be the head gasket, but I'm trying to ignore that right now...![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Does anybody have some pics with/without starter from the driver side rear of the block from below?
Will I be able to pop out the old and in the new plug with the manifold on with just removing the starter?
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I did see there's a coolant passage up to the head in the block and I'm well aware it could be the head gasket, but I'm trying to ignore that right now...
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Does anybody have some pics with/without starter from the driver side rear of the block from below?
Will I be able to pop out the old and in the new plug with the manifold on with just removing the starter?
Last edited by Nop; May 25th, 2014 at 05:03 AM.
#9
Thought about that already - but at the moment I'm more concerned about the LH manifold and the space underneath it.
Collecting images and opinions right now and waiting for the plugs. Car is on the street in front of the house, as soon as the mail arrives it'll be about a mile to the garage to see what's up. Yes, I'm a *****.
Found an image from February in my collection, looks as if it already started back then:
Collecting images and opinions right now and waiting for the plugs. Car is on the street in front of the house, as soon as the mail arrives it'll be about a mile to the garage to see what's up. Yes, I'm a *****.
Found an image from February in my collection, looks as if it already started back then:
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93085d1401095764-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-2014-02-05_15-51-07_343.jpg)
#11
How about?
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...607_0443919228
These heaters avoid the need to pound a plug into a hole with limited access.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...607_0443919228
These heaters avoid the need to pound a plug into a hole with limited access.
#13
I'm guessing a block heater might not be so easy to obtain in Germany, and you have ordered a new set of plugs.
Btw I've read every variation of description on this thread - freeze plugs, core plugs (the popular British term), and welch plugs ( a very old term over here).
.
Perhaps the best long term fix would be to pull the motor and change the lot, flushing out the block while you're at it. If one plug is leaking others might not be far behind.
Of course it's entirely possible to replace them with the engine in place, but it's difficult, and you risk damaging the plugs if you get it wrong.
Roger
Btw I've read every variation of description on this thread - freeze plugs, core plugs (the popular British term), and welch plugs ( a very old term over here).
![Smile](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Perhaps the best long term fix would be to pull the motor and change the lot, flushing out the block while you're at it. If one plug is leaking others might not be far behind.
Of course it's entirely possible to replace them with the engine in place, but it's difficult, and you risk damaging the plugs if you get it wrong.
Roger
#14
Agreed
At least order TWO sets so that if you damage one, you are not totally hosed. It's possible that instead of rusting thru you had a plug come loose. Happened to me once.
Great excuse to remove the engine, and then, well, you MIGHT AS WELL....
But if you just want to do the ONE, for RIGHT NOW
get a rubber expanding plug. Marine supply store?
Removal of trans inspection cover and starter and maybe the exhaust crossover pipe should gain you the needed room. A lot less work on the starter if you can leave the wires on and hang/ support the starter off to the side, still connected.
Say I just had a great idea. I know, ha ha, right?
In situations like this, if the starter is still in the way, remove the one small solenoid to starter electrical screw, and the two small solenoid to starter screws, then twist and remove the solenoid, allowing STARTER removal from the vehicle w/o disturbing the PITA large battery cable and 1 or 2 smaller wires to the solenoid. Solenoid only would remain attached to the wiring harness.
At least order TWO sets so that if you damage one, you are not totally hosed. It's possible that instead of rusting thru you had a plug come loose. Happened to me once.
Great excuse to remove the engine, and then, well, you MIGHT AS WELL....
But if you just want to do the ONE, for RIGHT NOW
get a rubber expanding plug. Marine supply store?
Removal of trans inspection cover and starter and maybe the exhaust crossover pipe should gain you the needed room. A lot less work on the starter if you can leave the wires on and hang/ support the starter off to the side, still connected.
Say I just had a great idea. I know, ha ha, right?
In situations like this, if the starter is still in the way, remove the one small solenoid to starter electrical screw, and the two small solenoid to starter screws, then twist and remove the solenoid, allowing STARTER removal from the vehicle w/o disturbing the PITA large battery cable and 1 or 2 smaller wires to the solenoid. Solenoid only would remain attached to the wiring harness.
#15
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
and you have ordered a new set of plugs.
If one plug is leaking others might not be far behind.
So I drained about 4 Liters and topped it up with antifreeze. Now's the time to flush & replace it all.
There it is:
![](https://cutlass.onderka.com/pics/maw-truck.jpg)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
maybe the exhaust crossover pipe
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Solenoid only would remain attached to the wiring harness.
#16
Say I just had a great idea. I know, ha ha, right?
In situations like this, if the starter is still in the way, remove the one small solenoid to starter electrical screw, and the two small solenoid to starter screws, then twist and remove the solenoid, allowing STARTER removal from the vehicle w/o disturbing the PITA large battery cable and 1 or 2 smaller wires to the solenoid. Solenoid only would remain attached to the wiring harness.
#18
I replaced a freeze plug on the driver side of my 85 442, used jack stands, popped the wheel, starter, inner fender out of it and worked from there. IIRC the plug that went on mine was midway, right at the engine crossmember. I used a long punch and hammer and drove the new one in along with a variety of hammers and punches.
#19
Does anyone have any experience using this?
#20
Kudos to Summit, who apparently did their best: 4 working days from Middleburg Heights/OH to Germany. Plugs are out for delivery today, although yesterday was a national holiday over here in Germany.
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93368d1401430539-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-dhl_express.jpg)
![EEK!](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Waiting...
Ed:
Wife called: Delivered.
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93368d1401430539-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-dhl_express.jpg)
![EEK!](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Waiting...
Ed:
Wife called: Delivered.
Last edited by Nop; May 30th, 2014 at 12:44 AM.
#21
Does anyone have any experience using this?
Amazon.com: OTC 4603 Frost Plug Remover and Installer Set: Automotive
Amazon.com: OTC 4603 Frost Plug Remover and Installer Set: Automotive
#22
DONE!
Thought about going to the rental garage for a few hours or even outsourcing this completely, but today my mother in law came over so I quickly decided to do it myself and be busy.![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I got my neighbour's ramps and just rolled a few meters into my driveway. Everything is well and clan: Flexplate, starter, flexplate/torque converter shroud. Cleaned up my starter wiring while I was down there and replaced the plug with the dipstick tube in the block - What a fun...
Didn't dare to pull the dipstick tube, it looks like it was ran over by a convoy on the highway at least twice, so I had to wiggle the plug around it.
Hole at 1:30
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93474d1401562145-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140531_170720_018.jpg)
Hole at 10:30
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93475d1401562145-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140531_170727_529.jpg)
BTW: My engine core plugs are 1 1/2, not 1 5/8, thank god I ordered some by size and some as a "Fits almost all Olds 350"-set.
Thanks once more, guys!
Thought about going to the rental garage for a few hours or even outsourcing this completely, but today my mother in law came over so I quickly decided to do it myself and be busy.
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I got my neighbour's ramps and just rolled a few meters into my driveway. Everything is well and clan: Flexplate, starter, flexplate/torque converter shroud. Cleaned up my starter wiring while I was down there and replaced the plug with the dipstick tube in the block - What a fun...
Didn't dare to pull the dipstick tube, it looks like it was ran over by a convoy on the highway at least twice, so I had to wiggle the plug around it.
Hole at 1:30
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93474d1401562145-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140531_170720_018.jpg)
Hole at 10:30
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93475d1401562145-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140531_170727_529.jpg)
BTW: My engine core plugs are 1 1/2, not 1 5/8, thank god I ordered some by size and some as a "Fits almost all Olds 350"-set.
Thanks once more, guys!
Last edited by Nop; June 2nd, 2014 at 12:34 AM.
#26
Now that was fast...
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93913d1401946840-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140604_125840_274.jpg)
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
For the record:
Block: 1.5 Inch, Dorman item number #565-023 (brass), 6 needed
Head: 1.25 Inch, Dorman item number #565-028 (brass), 4 needed
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93913d1401946840-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140604_125840_274.jpg)
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
For the record:
Block: 1.5 Inch, Dorman item number #565-023 (brass), 6 needed
Head: 1.25 Inch, Dorman item number #565-028 (brass), 4 needed
Last edited by Nop; June 28th, 2014 at 05:00 AM.
#27
Now that was fast...
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93913d1401946840-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140604_125840_274.jpg)
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
For the record:
Block: 1.25 Inch, Dorman item number #565-023 (brass), 6 needed
Head: 1.50 Inch, Dorman item number #565-028 (brass), 4 needed
![](/forums/attachments/small-blocks/93913d1401946840-massive-coolant-loss-freeze-plug-img_20140604_125840_274.jpg)
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
For the record:
Block: 1.25 Inch, Dorman item number #565-023 (brass), 6 needed
Head: 1.50 Inch, Dorman item number #565-028 (brass), 4 needed
Told you so!
![Big Grin](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Sorry, I couldn't resist it.
![Smile](https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Roger.
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