Yikes!

Today after a short 3 mile drive (getting pizza), my 350 is losing coolant. Not just a few drops, I guess by now it's around 4 liters. I think it's the rear driver side freeze plug, but I'd like to get some ideas (and yes, I know they're not really freeze plugs):

It's pouring down behind the driver side motor mount, down the oil pan and the inside of the starter. Bright green clear coolant.

Now I'm too big to get beneath the car far enough, so here's a few pictures

Image taken some weeks ago when the car was on ramps with the front wheels. Circled the area where it's running down:



Another pic from the 'net that somewhat assures me the freeze plug has left the building:



Shot from the '70 engine manual, I can't seem to find another reason for such a large leak nearby besides the plug:



Any hints, ideas?
What size is that plug?
What material to select?
Are those rubber plugs any good?
Are Chebby plugs the same? Olds parts are somewhat harder to come by around here, Chebby plugs may be obtainable within a few days.
I guess up with it, take off the starter, old plug out, new one in?
Yalp, freeze plug virgin!

Thanks, guys!

 

I guess I would get it up in the air so you can see where it's coming from! I would get a pressure tester and pressurize the cooling system.

Your freeze plug is 41.54 mm steel cup type.

Pat

 

I agree that it looks like a Welch plug leak, but, as Pat said, if you drain the rest of the coolant, fill it up with water, raise it up in the air, and pressurize it with a tester, or with any homemade device you can concoct, you should be able to be certain in just a few minutes.

- Eric

 

That seems like the most likely source for a leak, as the others said get it up in the air and see. Probably remove the starter for a clearer view.

 

Thanks so far. Ordered a Milodon 34045 set with the correct 1-5/8" brass plugs.

 

Or the head gasket went right in that area.

 

Sssshhhhh, don't tell me!



I did see there's a coolant passage up to the head in the block and I'm well aware it could be the head gasket, but I'm trying to ignore that right now...

Does anybody have some pics with/without starter from the driver side rear of the block from below?

Will I be able to pop out the old and in the new plug with the manifold on with just removing the starter?

 

To install the plug it might be easier to remove the wheel and then the wheel house...makes for better access.

 

Thought about that already - but at the moment I'm more concerned about the LH manifold and the space underneath it.

Collecting images and opinions right now and waiting for the plugs. Car is on the street in front of the house, as soon as the mail arrives it'll be about a mile to the garage to see what's up. Yes, I'm a *****.

Found an image from February in my collection, looks as if it already started back then:

 

If it is a core plug leaking there is no easy way for replacement in vehicle for the pressed in oe type with engine installed.They make an installer but access is limited for the most part.

 

How about?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...607_0443919228

These heaters avoid the need to pound a plug into a hole with limited access.

 

The easiest fix is the expanding rubber type



Pretty effective when used right.
Can pull the motor and fix 'em all later.
That day may never even come.

Pressure test before putting too many parts back on.

 

I'm guessing a block heater might not be so easy to obtain in Germany, and you have ordered a new set of plugs.
Btw I've read every variation of description on this thread - freeze plugs, core plugs (the popular British term), and welch plugs ( a very old term over here). .
Perhaps the best long term fix would be to pull the motor and change the lot, flushing out the block while you're at it. If one plug is leaking others might not be far behind.
Of course it's entirely possible to replace them with the engine in place, but it's difficult, and you risk damaging the plugs if you get it wrong.


Roger

 

Agreed
At least order TWO sets so that if you damage one, you are not totally hosed. It's possible that instead of rusting thru you had a plug come loose. Happened to me once.

Great excuse to remove the engine, and then, well, you MIGHT AS WELL....

But if you just want to do the ONE, for RIGHT NOW
get a rubber expanding plug. Marine supply store?
Removal of trans inspection cover and starter and maybe the exhaust crossover pipe should gain you the needed room. A lot less work on the starter if you can leave the wires on and hang/ support the starter off to the side, still connected.

Say I just had a great idea. I know, ha ha, right?
In situations like this, if the starter is still in the way, remove the one small solenoid to starter electrical screw, and the two small solenoid to starter screws, then twist and remove the solenoid, allowing STARTER removal from the vehicle w/o disturbing the PITA large battery cable and 1 or 2 smaller wires to the solenoid. Solenoid only would remain attached to the wiring harness.

 

At least not a 230V type.

To sets, to be correct. You see, I don't trust myself being a core plug virgin.

Definitely going to flush the block and replace all the plugs I can reach. When I got the car antifreeze was only good for -5°C/23°F, which is a joke here in Bavaria - even with the car being inside in the winter.

So I drained about 4 Liters and topped it up with antifreeze. Now's the time to flush & replace it all.

There it is:





You got me thinking for a moment - don't have one.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

 

Never done it on an Olds, but generally if I don't have to remove the starter, it gets wired up and hung off something just like a brake caliper. I tend to use a straightened coat hanger instead of a bungie cord. Don't forget to remove the battery before monkeying with the starter tho. The last thing you want is to see the blue flash of DOOOOOMMMMMMMM.

 

Bavaria...what a great place to drive an olds muscle car... rumbling thru the winding country roads...nice

 

I replaced a freeze plug on the driver side of my 85 442, used jack stands, popped the wheel, starter, inner fender out of it and worked from there. IIRC the plug that went on mine was midway, right at the engine crossmember. I used a long punch and hammer and drove the new one in along with a variety of hammers and punches.

 

Does anyone have any experience using this?

 

Kudos to Summit, who apparently did their best: 4 working days from Middleburg Heights/OH to Germany. Plugs are out for delivery today, although yesterday was a national holiday over here in Germany.





Waiting...

Ed:

Wife called: Delivered.

 

Yep pretty cool tool, we have em at work the head pivots so you can drive on it from any angle. you still have to start em by hand though at first to get it going in straight.

 

DONE!

Thought about going to the rental garage for a few hours or even outsourcing this completely, but today my mother in law came over so I quickly decided to do it myself and be busy.

I got my neighbour's ramps and just rolled a few meters into my driveway. Everything is well and clan: Flexplate, starter, flexplate/torque converter shroud. Cleaned up my starter wiring while I was down there and replaced the plug with the dipstick tube in the block - What a fun...

Didn't dare to pull the dipstick tube, it looks like it was ran over by a convoy on the highway at least twice, so I had to wiggle the plug around it.

Hole at 1:30


Hole at 10:30


BTW: My engine core plugs are 1 1/2, not 1 5/8, thank god I ordered some by size and some as a "Fits almost all Olds 350"-set.

Thanks once more, guys!

 

Good job and didn't have to visit with the mother in law... a win/win.

 

back to- if one has a rust hole, the other 9 are not far behind...

 

Why? My mother in law will come to visit again, I think it's a good idea to keep some plugs.

 

Now that was fast...





For the record:

Block: 1.5 Inch, Dorman item number #565-023 (brass), 6 needed
Head: 1.25 Inch, Dorman item number #565-028 (brass), 4 needed

 

Told you so!


Sorry, I couldn't resist it. No offense intended.


Roger.

 

Done.

 

Are those cooling tubes in the trans pan?

 

Yes. I think it's a Derale DER-14200, but I didn't take a closer pic yet.

And:

It's not leaking.

 

Pretty cool thanks for the info!

 

Next: Block, passenger side Front.