76olds

I have a refreshed 350 olds in my 76, I would like the lumpy lump sound, I really don't want to change the heads or pistons, could I get a nice sounding cam. I would like to know if anyone has done this along with a cam type or manufacture
Current - 350 refresh , stock cam, valve job, new chain , one connecting rod replaced , not sure as to what else inside the motor.
I added edelbrock performer 3711
edelbrock 600
1 inch carb spacer
Shift kit in trans
Currently 2 1/4 full duals capped crossover pipe


Ready to install this spring... Headman ceramic coated shortys unknown as to what pipe dia going back on.
New Eaton posi with 3:42 gears.


Just wondering if a cam ,and lifter set could be added to give me that sound. Could I reuse the same chain and lifters ?


Thanks guys Eric

coppercutlass

Don't get caught in the sound hype. To pick a proper cam you need to figure out where your compression is . Most "lumpy" cams need compression to make power. If it does not have sufficient compression you will bleed of cylinder pressure and the car will sound fast but be pig slow. If your engine is pretty fresh I wouldn't mess with it. Find a core hit the books and build your self a 350 that will make more power and make that lopey sound and back it up. Core engines are cheap ! You could even just build a nice short block and depending on what heads you have you can re use certain stuff. jmo.

76olds

Thanks copper, someone had mentioned that since my heads were done I would have lower compression that stock down around 7 something from 8 something not really a motor guy as you can tell , I will look for a good used 350 as you said just keep driving what I have . Where would I find a good build book you know ?

coppercutlass

The max performance oldsmobile v8 book by SA design I believe which Bill travato wrote and the mondello oldsmobile technical book. There is a member here selling a 355 short block with forged pistons for a reasonable price. Needs little to no work for about 300 bucks more than what a cam a lifter set cost's.

76olds

someone mentioned 7.8:1 down from there due heads being done with fel-pro head gaskets

coppercutlass

With 7.8 to 1 you will have slim pickings. They probably did use a felpro gasket but you never know if they decked the block or milled the heads. on the 73 and newer block I have found the pistons to sit .035 + in the cylinders. vs 72 and older appx in the .025 range There is too many variables and what could haves for someone to guess and run a cam with out knowing what the numbers are.

76olds

I think the shipping would be $$$$$ I live in Canada, I will have to try to find one up here. shipping one up here would be my last resort . I was just going thru different threads and I actually heard your car in a video clip that a sounded awesome.

coppercutlass

Thanks I put a few clips with various different engines I have had in and out over the years, 350,350,307,355 and working on another 355 at moment. The current 355 is a 10 to 1 compression engine I built, . I cant leave stuff alone lol.

76olds

Thanks for the info copper, that helped me out a lot ! I'll run what I have for 2014 and look for something to build and play with

76olds

The motor had 115,000 miles on it when it got refreshed, I bent a connecting rod pretty badly after I fogged it lol. Too much oil down the card... pffft not doing that again. It now has 136,000 miles so I really don't know how much life there is left in it , It goes ok thou just not off the line so I went with the rear posi and gears that you suggested Jim shipped them out to me 2day I should get them in a few days.

olds 307 and 403

Actually 7.8 to 1 is with the factory shim head gaskets. If the were milled .020", then it will be back to that. If different pistons were used, it could be much lower. All you need is flat top forged pistons from CP, Probe or Speed Pro. With your stock heads milled or depending on your current head CC, you will be at 9 to 1 or close. Perfect compression for a mild cam swap. Both would wake your car up, big time.

76olds

they didn't put new pistons or rings in buddy said everything looked ok after he took the old rod out. just told me he cleaned up the valves and reseated them a few needed to be done. Not sure if the head was resurfaced, He gave me the old cam back with the lifters and chain as well as the bent rod. He has now gone out of business so I have now way of contacting him. Thanks 307. What do you think is that what u call refreshed ? Would a compression test tell me anything ?

Fun71

My random thoughts:

Too bad you didn't get info on what cam was put in it. There's a wide range of mild "stock replacement" cams available - some are really good and some are not so good.

With the mileage on that engine, the valve springs are probably getting weak and may not work well above 5000 RPM (been there).

Those rear gears will make it feel like it has a more powerful engine. I wouldn't do anything to the engine until after the gear change - you might like it the way it is.

olds 307 and 403

Do a compression test for sure. I am surprised that new rings weren't put in and it bent a rod in the first place. I currently have an original 76 Olds 350 with a Performer cam advanced 2 degrees according to the Cloyes street roller timing set. Great motor, 20 idle, 45 psi hot cruising at 1850 rpm oil pressure and 140 to 142 psi cranking warm.

76olds

I was told the rod got bent at the time I put oil down the carb while it was running and when it stalled out too much went into the cylinders, therefore when I started the engine up in the spring its was knocking bad. As for rings in not 100% sure I didn't get them back. At the time he asked me if I wanted any performance parts added but I couldn't afford it. Its runs really strong with the power to pass great , off the line unless the pavement is really hot I will give a little chirp, After I put the intake in and carb, my buddy next door said wow you put a cam in it lol, I said no I must have a vaccum leak I sure did under the spacer, that's the closest thing to the sound I would like. pfffft a vacuum leak turned my crank imagine that!!! I also heard coppers engine after build on a video that's the sound I'd like . I guess in the spring I'll throw the posi , gears , and headers at it then do a compression test . I hope you guys will still be around in May 2014 for more help and suggestions

olds 307 and 403

Olds has a unique exhaust note. The headers will make it louder but sound better. Dynomax mufflers are quiet but are supposed have good flow, loud grows old quick. If it is running strong and not burning oil, just run as is. I gained .6 in the 1/8 mile switching from 2.56 to 3.42 gears.

76olds

Its not using any oil just the rear main leaking a bit again maybe from sitting over the winter? I really don't have any issues with it other than wanting to lay some black stripes down every now and again. I get more of a squak with the shift kit lol. The sound I have is good from the duals currently 2 1/4 thru with magna flows . If the posi and gears don't lite'm'up then I'll go to plan B with the support I have with all you guys here. Put-r-ther thanks

captjim

I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that they stopped using the shim gasket in 73. Either way, with a 14cc dish piston down .020 and a .045 gasket with those large chambered #8s, cr is in the anemic mid-high 7.xx range.

coppercutlass

Btw My exhaust consist of full length headers ,2.5 in. x pipe , and hooker aero chamber mufflers with turn downs. Both clips I have of my car idling with the real choppy idle where with 10 to 1 350's One had a 280h comp cam and the current 355 has a howards 512/512 227/234 duration cam.

Macadoo

76olds, I did almost exactly what you've mentioned but on my '71. 3711 intake, hedman shorties, had the heads rebuilt, and had cutlassefi grind me a custom cam with matched springs and new lifters (for my 350). I calculated my CR to be right around '71 stock of 8.5:1 .I bought the thinner shim gaskets instead of the felpro blues to keep my CR up as far as possible. I also have the #7 heads instead of the 8s. I haven't reinstalled the engine yet but I'm already wishing I had just picked up another block to build some muscle. Live and learn, right? I plan on getting the motor back in by Spring at the latest so I'll let you know how it feels.

olds 307 and 403

Almost 100% positive my current 76 Olds have shim head gaskets. My other original 76 had shim gaskets, the horrible coolant rotted them out. The pistons were in the hole the same amount as the Detroit .028" head gaskets I pulled off my 403. Either way the KB pistons calculator comes up at 7.8 or 7.9 to 1, depending on head CC, piston depth with the .017" shim gaskets. Fine for a cruiser and fun to drive but my run at the track tells me even tuned, it won't be competitive as is.

76olds

@ copper Put-r-ther that sound makes the heart pump for sure, even at my age. I played the clip about 10 times!!!. I'm considering picking up a used 350 just have to find a decent one up here in Canada I think shipping one from the U.S would be up there, Just the posi and gears were $165. to ship + us dollars +customs PFFFFT Anuf Said rite there. Its all good here I'm taking all this awesome info in. I have a lot of tools as I'm a toolmaker/CNC machinist. Just need more engine exp. Geez if I had a wire frame or a solid model of all the parts I'd start machining them lol . 3 axis machine with a 4th axis rotatory. I hope I will get something out of those gears till I figure out which way to go . Put-r-ther thanks captjm, mac

coppercutlass

76olds I learned about ring and pinions when I worked a short stint in a machine shop. I used to run an old gleason bevel generator . My good friend ran a 5 axis to rough the gears out ad we finished them to finial specs on the old machines. The cnc stuff cant touch the finish lol. I though you would appreciate this since you are about to do your ring and pinion next spring. Here is a pic of one of the smaller gears at about 60 in. max was 120 in.

captjim

You are probably right, I wasn't positive. Maybe I was remembering the change being 73 and it was 77.

76olds

@ copper, that's very true the only way I get good finishes is to leave .015 send for heat treat them finish the block hard, then its an awesome finish no grinding at all, just sucks when you have to go below a 3/16 ball nose without a high speed mill. Nice old machine there, don't make em like that anymore. I have a bridge 60" x 120 " Vtech 50 taper 3 axis with a compound 4th axis table 45 deg both directions with a fanuc controller only 10000 rpm spindle. I mainly machine tool-steels A2,D2,P-H 4140,H13 some P20. I've only a small manual lathe not good for much. Those are huge gears wow you definatly need a horizontal for that. So you not into machining now ? Geez I wonder if a block could be made out of P20 good nickel content 38-42 Rockwell, Heads from either A2 - 55-58 Rockwell or D2 58-62, . I could digitize the whole deal and create surfaces to machine.. Not sure as to how much heat is generated in the block or heads tool steel hardened of flame hardened may work. Just throwing it out there.

76olds

Mac, did you put the intake, headers etc on then decide on pulling it ? Mine is actually running ok, when I took the intake off and installed my 3711 with the carb it ran good. Did yours not run ok ?

Macadoo

I think you know the answer now that you've read my thread but the engine was running okay but it was bleeding to death. leaking from literally everywhere. Once I had it out, like you, I got the mod bug. I made a bunch of decisions and purchases before I fully understood how it all works together. If I decide to do another, meatier build, I'll probably go with another 350 so I can swap the parts over.
I'm envious of your new gears. After the engine, wheels, and paint job, I'd really like lower gears and a four speed trans.

coppercutlass

@76olds I left because working nights absolutely sucked and I realized how much more I love working on cars. So after 6 months I left . Currently back doing body work at lexus . Yeah we heatreated after our final cuts then we checked for pattern and if it needed adjustments we put it back in the machine and made cuts as necessary usually very fine.002 cutls max . Then we lapped em and they where done. They did heat treating in house pretty cool process.

76olds

Yes after I read thru the thread, that timing gear was crazy with all the pieces in the oil pump deal, its looking good, I can't wait to put the gears in and my headers on in the spring. Can't wait to see your project done .

Macadoo

You and me both, brother.

76olds

Cheers to that !! your doing an awesome job Mac.

Macadoo

Thanks dude. It's the proverbial labor of love

joepenoso

I had a stock "J" headed 455 with factory cam in my 455. it was ultra low compression with 400cc deep dish pistons. The stock cam was changed out to JM 18-20 about 216degree at 0.050 . There was a noticeable increase in power and the motor revved higher. I don't have any objective numbers or times slip...................except for the seat of the pants stuff. I feel I didn't lose any bottom end....................but increased top end and gained about 500 revs
joepenoso
I forgot I replaced the stock manifold with Edelbrock

76olds

Thanks Joe, I'm going to throw the rear posi and gears in it along with the headers and see how it goes this spring. If I get some rubber out of it I'll leave that motor in it and look at building another.

rustyroger

How and why did you put oil down the carb?.


Roger.

76olds

Someone told me to pour oil down the carb while it was running in the fall until it stalled out, This would fog it for the winter so I did. I fired it up in the spring and WOW what a knock. I can't remember but I figure I was pouring it in a little too fast and when it stalled.The rod was bent in pretty badly. There you have it Roger !!

rustyroger

Well.... I've heard of people doing that for engines they are putting into long term storage over here, it's fair to say they wont be experiencing a Canadian winter. But I wouldn't think it necessary for overwintering your car.
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps the best thing would be to pull the plugs, pour some oil through each plug hole and spin the engine a few turns, then reinstall the plugs.
The problem is if you put too much oil in you risk hydraulicing the engine -as you found out!- I think you were badly advised in this case.


Roger.

76olds

[QUOTE=rustyroger;636824]Well.... I've heard of people doing that for engines they are putting into long term storage over here, it's fair to say they wont be experiencing a Canadian winter. But I wouldn't think it necessary for overwintering your car.
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps the best thing would be to pull the plugs, pour some oil through each plug hole and spin the engine a few turns, then reinstall the plugs.
The problem is if you put too much oil in you risk hydraulicing the engine -as you found out!- I think you were badly advised in this case.


Roger.[/QUOT


Well bad advice or me not doing it properly, I would have to say I didn't do it properly. I haven't done it since but looking back, I should have taken the plugs out and cranked it before start-up in the spring. Many guys have told me just to run fuel stabilizer during my last fill shut er down and leave it. A winter won't hurt it so I went with that.