Aceshigh

I have no IDEA where to begin here.
What is the 1st step in removing the engine ??
I can't reach ANY bolts it seems behind the engine to detach it from the trans.
So I'm kinda stuck on stupid here trying to figure it out.

I can't really get to anything it seems.

Also,
Is it safe to lift the engine out with a plate attached to my aluminum intake ??
Or is that only recommended with a iron or steel intake ??

I'd like to do this the EASIEST way possible. Be it WITH or WITHOUT the trans.
1st step I would think is removing the headers from the exhaust right ??
2nd step I'm assuming I have to disconnect the motor mounts first somehow ?? (is there a cheat here using a jack??)
3rd step removing the hood ?
NewEngineChrome3.jpg

J-(Chicago)

I'm laid off from work this week if you need a hired hand. Have a few 2k+ bids out, but no bites.

Aceshigh

I just shot you a PM.

I'd like to try and get it out in 1 day if it's feasible.

Oldsmaniac

Ya start at the top, remove lines ,hoses, connectors, linkages, drain coolant. Unbolt headers or manifolds from heads. Then remove fan and radiator cause ya will likely punch a hole in that on the engine out. Its easier at times to remove trans with engine as an assembly. Bolts for trans to block are not impossible to get out. Ya may want to pull distributer as well. Trans needs support if its staying but ya need to unbolt converter from flexplate. Hood usually needs to come off. Engine mount to frame pad bolts are pulled and with a chain at each corner of block ya can start lifting. Go slow and if ya have a friend who has done it before get him.

f-85

I could always join in too. Where is he at?

Aceshigh

I'm in the NW Suburbs guys. West edge of Schaumburg. Basically I'm straight up Route 59 from you ~45mins.
Any help IS appreciated. I got a beer fridge and I can order any food you guys want

As for the normal stuff, I know disconnecting lines, etc.
So I should disconnect the headers .....man those are not easy to access.

Okay, so I haven't done a trans in awhile.....so I've forgotten.
Once I can access the trans bell housing bolts, I can pull that off.
I can't get the image in my head why the Torque Converter has to be unbolted ??
Why can't that just stay on the back of the engine ??

Okay so I should do the grade 8 bolts at the 2 corners or 4 corners instead of the manifold plate??

Or does it matter ??

Oldsmaniac

Converter stays with trans, because there is a distance it must travel before it disengages trans front shaft and a rotating effort usually required to release converter from trans. There is also a fluid issue with the fluid in the converter. 3 converter bolts at flexplate and a simple pry backwards and converter is free with no mess or struggle or reason to remove trans from crossmember.

Aceshigh

IIRC the TH350 bellhousing has an access point at the bottom to get to these torque converter bolts right ??
So I have to actually get the whole car UP to get under it while I'm lifting the engine UP as well ??

Found a BOP TH350
1970BOP400.jpg

MDchanic

No, no.

You jack up the car and remove the converter bolts and pop the converter backwards a half inch or so.
You've got to get it up anyway to remove the trans-to-engine bolts.
THEN you put the car back down, roll it under your engine-pullin'-tree and haul away.

- Eric

Bluevista

It depends on if you can fit under the car and reach the converter and transmission bolts without jacking it up or not.

I would suggest using an engine tilter, they don't cost much and it makes the engine a lot easier to manuever in and out and to fit to the trans.
I used a couple of heavy turnbuckles to the frame on each side and length of chain to hold the trans up, sort of like they do in the service manual. That way the car can be rolled around when the engine is out and you don't have to worry about denting up the pan or the trans falling off the jack or a support.

bil

What kind of answer is that?? Doing it like in the manual! What's wrong with some old rope or a 2x4? Sounds like a good idea if those guys are willing to come up and help! ---bil

Aceshigh

Ahhh......that makes sense. Thanks.
So basically I start with the transmission first after jacking it up.

That's what I needed.

I'm going to borrow one from a coworker.

Heavy turnbuckles ??? Like ratcheting straps ??
I need to just buckle down and go to The Parts Place and fork out the dough for this service manual I guess.

gearheads78

- disconnect battery, jack up car, and drain fluids
- crawl under car remove starter , converter bolts, and exhaust pipe if it has manifolds. While you are down there support transmission and remove the belhousing bolts you can get to.
-go back up top and remove radiator. Remove all brackets, accessories ect. Use a bungee cord and towels to hold the a/c compressor and power steering pump out of your way.
-make notes of wire harness and remove and set out of the way
-fuel lines, carb and distributor (this will help keep you from damageing the firewall )
-remove the 2 motor mount through bolts and then the remaining belhousing bolts from the top (sometimes some really long extensions and a few swivles will make it easier from under the car.)
Attach your lift plate and start slowly lifting up. A couple of good long prybars will help here. If something is not moving don't force it. Stop and see why.

I'm sure I am forgetting something but that should be enough to get you started

MDchanic

It's the 21st century now

Make notes, but also take pictures of EVERYTHING from EVERY angle.
Act like an idiot doing it.

When you're putting things back together, you'll be glad you wasted your time taking that stupid picture from that ridiculous angle.

After you've taken a given model of car apart and put it together a few times, you won't need it, but for the first time, even if you've done similar models, it's a godsend.

- Eric

Aceshigh

Whaddya mean "Act" ??
This will come naturally. lol

I will have a point and shoot on standby.
(J) Chicago said he'll come by to assist me in this venture.
I've never done it before, so any and all assistance is GREATLY appreciated.

My A/C stuff on my firewall will be in the way I think.
Not sure how I'm going to deal with that just yet. Should I remove it ??
No compressor or anything in the car presently.

MDchanic

No. No need to remove the evaporator from the firewall.

The thing about this though is that you are lifting a roughly 600 pound piece of metal into the air. ANY deviation in the initial lift will be IMMEDIATELY apparent as soon as the engine is free of it attachments, as it will slowly swing in the direction it is being pulled.
You may be an inch or so off, and that's okay. If you aren't paying attention and you are pulling from 6" to the side, though, you may watch your motor swing slowly through an arc of 12" and take out a fender or something.
Everything you do needs to be slow and easy, and you need to think about what's going to happen next before you do it.
Just ease it up and out, gently guiding it so as not to hit anything as it goes, and being careful not to get yourself pinched between it and anything else (600 pounds moving very slowly can really hurt).
If you have old thick blankets or sleeping bags, you might gain peace of mind by putting them over everything in the engine compartment, so that a weak, glancing "touch" won't hurt anything, and so you feel okay about leaning in if you have to persuade the block to move one way or another.

And put the hood down very gently on one side on something very soft. Putting it on its nose or its rear edge can do bad things.

- Eric

rocketraider

Oh boy, I just can't leave this one alone!

Whyncha get some Chevy guys over ta help ya out? They seem to be the experts at yanking BOP engines out to stick a Chevy engine in!

Just jabbin' ya buddy- J and Josh should be able to help you R&R it EZ enough and if they'll work for beer and a deep dish pie, you're ahead of the game!

On those top bellhousing bolts- go to Harbor Freight or similar Chinesium tool store and buy a few cheap extra-long 3/8 and 1/2 drive extensions and maybe a universal joint, or universal sockets if they have them. You can use these to access the bolts from under the car. Beats trying to lean over and fumble around from the top side.

Good luck!

Aceshigh

Those were just possible plans.

I'm going to keep the Rocket 350 until I can possibly find a 455 cheap.
I'm also going to replace all the AC stuff as well.

Right now I just have to figure out how to get the engine out, and then
I'm putting a 6 speed in behind the 350.

dc2x4drvr

What Gearheads78 said...+rocketraider on the long extension+tape heavy cardboard on to your A/C box, just a tap from the block will make a nice hole, ask how I know

f-85

Well i talked to jeremy and sounds like he is gonna come out and help you pull the motor. You dont need me there drinking all your beer.

f-85

BTW whats your plans? You gonna rebuild the 350? Or swapping it for a BB Olds?

Oldsguy

Excellent step-by-step Richard.

Aceshigh

My 350 is recently rebuilt above stock. That's all I know. Flying blind on that one.
I'm yanking the engine to degrease it, clean it, repaint it POR15 gold most likely because it's brushable.
Then I'm yanking the intake manifold to have it media blasted and cured.
I'm also media blasting my headers and coating them.

Might throw in a mini-hi torque starter while I'm at it because I have heat soak issues randomly.

I'm also going to clean the entire engine bay with a wire wheel and paint.
It's the ONLY part of my car that isn't restored, and to me it's an eyesore.
Powdercoating everything I can black too.

I'm going to keep the 350 for another season, but I'm going to also
drill out the crank for a pilot bearing for my T-56 6 speed as well.

italian ice

Did you get your engine out yet? How did it go?

Bob D'

Aceshigh

Not yet.
Today I went to get the engine dyno'd on a big Mustang dyno.
It's basically a stock 1970 Rocket 350 rebuild.
I did the additions for powertrain loss with an auto.

~300 horsepower
~400lbs ft torque

I'm going to call Jeremy in the next week or 2 to get it yanked.
This weekend was too crazy.

gearheads78

That is not stock if its making 300HP to the tires

MDchanic

Yup.

Pre-1971 used idealized conditions, engine on a stand, driving no accessories, and then often "rounded" up or down to suit their marketing needs.

Post-1971 were required to measure HP as installed.

Neither one measured HP at the wheels, so even those low-seeming 1972 and '72 numbers are even lower in actual use.

- Eric

firefrost gold

when I pulled mine I took the wire harness with it . just unhooked it from the firewall.

Aceshigh

Not at the tires. I have a 750cfm Eddy on it.
I was running really rich 3400-4800 rpm. So too much carb obviously.

I was only interested in ballparking it so I knew if I wanted to
keep the motor or not.

firefrost gold

What did That run you. ?

f-85

How did you dyno it, and what were the numbers you got?

MDchanic

Forgive me if this is an ignorant question from an other wise experienced person, but I don't really have any racing experience...

Since Dyno measurements of installed engines must be taken at the wheels, rather than at the crank, is there a generally accurate rule of thumb for estimating crank power and torque (well, I guess torque could be calculated pretty directly through gear ratios) when testing output at the wheels?

- Eric

J-(Chicago)

I believe a 15-20% loss is in the ball park.

MDchanic

... so Aceshigh's dyno would have showed 240 to 255 HP for him to state 300 HP, as above.

Got it.

- Eric

Aceshigh

Costs vary shop to shop.
It was $60 for a single pull + $25 for a weld in bung for the A/F sensor

I could have done 3 pulls for $90 plus tuning costs, but all I wanted was a ballpark so I knew what I was working with.

Manual = 15% drivetrain loss
Automatic = 20% drivetrain loss (nicknamed a slushbox for a reason)

Obviously that's with a TIGHT new setup. Not an older setup with a loose
trans or loose converter. Shop tole me figure closer to 25% loss with an
auto if it's not a newer build. Then you have the factors of tuning it
properly to get the most out of it at the dyno.

My torque was 334 @ the wheels iirc. I forget the exact hp # it spit out, I just did the math on the spot.