jpc647

I was going through the backside of the garage this weekend doing some cleaning before winter and came across a 327 chevy motor my dad had in his 57 chevy.

I asked him about it, when he sold the car, he swapped motors because the guy wanted the original motor, blah blah blah. Well He got to talking about the car and how he could lift the front wheels off the ground 2-3 inches with the little small block.

Now he couldn't remember what was done to the motor, but he said it idled almost smooth, so the cam wasn't radical,and it was a decent street able car.

Now I know a 57 Chevy and a 72 Cutlass are two different animals. I guess my question is, who here can lift their front wheels off the ground, and what are you running for a set up?

I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking about having the motor and tranny rebuilt in my cutlass (nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't have anywhere near grunt I want it to, even after bolt-ons) and curious what it would take out of a 350 to do this, if it's even possible.

Car currently has 3.23 gears, edelbrock performer rpm intake, 1406 carb. Don't want lower gears, the car is already screaming on the highway at 80mph, just to stay with the flow of traffic, car feels "uncomfortable", like it's at the end of it's range. Not that I want/need to go faster, it's just feels like the motor is working too hard.

import extermination

My cars shocks were so badly worn that when i punched the front would lift off the ground about an inch.

jpc647

Well that puts a new twist on this rather unexplainable situation. I just don't see how a 327 could have had this much power...

On a side note, whats your engine setup looking like these days?

oldcutlass

I don't see a small block in a 57 Chevy pulling the front tires off the ground without some real power. I also don't see worn shocks enabling that to happen either!


The only car I was able to do this on was a sbc powered vega!! However I think when I get around to getting the rearend and suspension finished on the Cutlass I can do it. Right now it'll just burn (I mean really burn) the rear tire off it at a rolling start.

RAMBOW

I would guess this car was also the fastest around town and nobody could touch it, but yet he never quite made it to the strip to get it timed, though he's sure it would've run in the 10's.

Those storys just never get old, right along with the $5 bill on the dash story.

I like bs-ing about the good old days... but I always mentally recompensate for BS.

Photos & Timeslips don't lie- Everything else is just a story.


If you seriously want to be able to make a 350 powered olds pull the front tires... Go over to ROP and start reading & researching in the extreme builds section there are plenty of guys who can do it.
You will need around 550-600hp motor, a transmission & rearend setup to optimize & handle the power, and a very well tuned suspension & sticky tires.

A motor alone won't do it, you need the whole package. And when its done & able to do wheelstands, unfortunatly its not likely to have a "nice" idle & be suitable for driving around town.

That said... You can build a 450hp motor, that would still be very streetable, put down low 13's - high 12's and be an absolute kick in the pants to drive- and if you tune your suspension really well, you might even get to see a TINY bit of daylight light under a front tire launching with slicks...

Best recomendation I can make is to go to a dragstrip on a Test & Tune day and just walk around the pits- talk to people and look at their cars. You'll see people at every possible level of performance at these things, from guys with bone stock 15 second cars, to guys with tube chassis dedicated drag cars... and most people are very happy to talk and show what they are working on.

Personally I enjoy going to the strip as much or more than a car show- because at the strip you actually get to see these cars doing what they were designed for- not just big pretty paperweights to win a trophy.

380 Racer

6-6-2010.jpg

oldcutlass

Now thats what I'm talkin about 380 Racer. I bet its got a nice smooth idle!!!

380 Racer

LOL yes it does........@1100 in gear.

yankees

Suspension tuning the right converter / trans & rear gear selection will achieve a wheels up launch. Worry about the motor last.

Our old 3000 lb Henry J gasser could pull 1-2 footers with a 355 Chevy / Turbo 350 (stock) with a 3000 stall converter. Here's the kicker 5.67 rear gear in the back with big 31x13x15 GY slicks sticking out of the cut out quarter panels. Favorite car of all time for me.

The 355 had crap in it.

stock 1.94/1.50 thin wall heads
stock rockers arms with no guide plates
stock rods with 9.5:1 compression cast pistons
Crane hyd cam 302/302 with .465/.465 lift
Edel performer manifold
Holley 750 vac sec out of the box
1 5/8 headers (blackjack I think)

Car went mid 12's pretty easily shifting at 6200. I can't provide a pic, but I do have video on VHS

jpc647

I’m wondering too, if this is just his “remembering what he wants to remember syndrome”. Not sure I’ve ever head about the $5 bill on the dashboard.

I joined well over a year ago, never got an email, and my password still doesn’t work. I’ve read threads here about people having the same problem.

450hp to run low 13’s? That’s gotta be a mistake? With 450hp the motor would have close to 500ft/lbs if not more.
That has to run better than that. My Genesis Coupe rated at 316hp/280ft/lb torque will run a 13.5 in the qtr.


I’m trying to get there. The season is winding down here in mass, might have to wait till next year. :/

Rickman48

Wish I'd of framed the ticket I got for 'careless driving' in the 60's!
Picture a 56 210 sedan with the suspension as far up as it would go, [rockers were above the knee!] 3-speed with a 4:11 gear.
Popping the clutch @ 2000 RPM would take the tires about 2" off the ground - at least that's why I got a ticket!
Air shocks w/90lbs. rear, 66 BB station wagon springs and ball-joint risers in the front!
The 097 fuelly cam and 12 1/2 compression was a little rough at idle, though.
Kinda miss the 'old days', though.
Now, you'd get reckless driving and the car impounded, even though I never went over the speed limit, that time!

Run to Rund

The Rund car is shown with the front wheels off the ground in Oct 2010 Journey with Olds, and Dec. 2010 Muscle Car Review. The setup is discussed in the latter article.

droptopron

I have a floor jack so yes, i can lift the front tires off the ground.

bkeese

Back in the 60s it was cool to jack the rear up, higher the better. Well the higher the rear is jack up the easier it is to pull the front wheels off the ground. Add 90/10 shocks and sticky tires and a rear that won't break or you'll only do it once and the whees will come off the ground. Piece of cake!

I know someone going to ask about the jacked up rear and wheelies, it all about physics. It's kinda like an extension on a breaker bar.

380 Racer

So now keep the front skinnies in the air for the first 40' of every pass. That wheelie bar is keeping it from destroying the glass rear bumper.

Funkwagon455

Man, I was waiting to see how long it would take for this reply!!! I think I could probably get 10 inches of ground clearance with my flat eight '40 with my 3 ton jack!!

Redog

HA HA HA I was waiting on the jack comment.

Like Rambow said, it's more than just motor to do it. Shocks, slicks, and a high stall convertor work with that too.

I want to be able to pick up the front of my Delta, not super crazy, just enough to get daylight under the wheels

My buddy colud do just that with his 77 Camaro. Forget the engine, but I know the car ran 12.80 with a 4.10 gear. Car can be seen in the 1997 movie "Grind" (Not the skateboard movie)

jensenracing77

i had a 23 T bucket that would pull it's front wheels but that don't count. it had a stock cheby engine and didn't weigh anything. most dangerous car i ever had. the steering was a VERY scary deal.

import extermination

I didnt know that a jacked up rear could cause a car to liftthe front. I always thought it was the blown shocks.

I have station wagon springs in the rear with some track bars. The thing likes to launch.

coppercutlass

If you can lift the wheels with that alone i want to see the proof. I know guys with 11 sec cars with way more suspension and the bearly lift the front left.

oldcutlass

Just not going here!!!!!

citcapp

Take the engine out of the front and put it in the back behind the rear wheels. That'll do it

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I can totally lift my front wheels off the ground. All your performance enthousiasts, Check out my sweet setup.

coppercutlass

Tony lmfao this is the hot set up so I hear. I'm going to let you all in on a secret not many know. I can lift my rear tires off the ground with that same set up. Bahahahahaha

leepear

My Vista Cruiser will probably turn low 19s in the quarter mile now that I got the 275X15 off the back and am back to 14s. Even with a ton of sand in the back end it won't ever be able to lift the front wheels off the ground. That car's idea of laying rubber is screeching around a corner with the excessive over-steer. You hot rod guys are too much. Maybe we should post some pictures like 380racer. I would have a tendency to believe him.

Lee

dmberendsen

I'm with you Droptop'. The muscle cars impress the us guys alright and I love 'em. But our convertibles impress the ladies!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

LOL

Hey, i just had to... He didnt specify..

cutlassjoe

Darn...I was gonna use that one.....

leepear

nobody used the sand in the back but me

oldcutlass

I've used an extremely pregnant woman in the back seat! However, I still couldn't get the wheels off the ground.

AZ455

Maybe the weight needs to be behind the rear wheels, like in the trunk..

citcapp

Maybe you need a woman with junk in the trunk in the trunk

coppercutlass

That would take a whole lotta woman to do that .

willj

had afriend back in the 60,s with a 66 toronado, had so much power he had no problem lifting front wheels off,ha,ha ,thought this thread was very entertaining, will.

380 Racer

Now I think that is a false statement. I grew up in the 60s and just jacking up the rear wasn't a sure recipe for wheelies. It would bring the front up to the same level the rear was raised to. Remember the trick is getting traction and the jacked up cars had very little traction. Tire technology was far behind HP levels. Slicks were the only way to get traction but then hang on to your *** when it rained.

Getting back on target.......physics, you can't over lever a rear suspention by jacking the rear up. You throw a wrench into the geometry of the rear arms and does nothing.

beebee78

Well i have a 70 camaro not gutted 3460 pounds on the scale. 355 single holley 150 shot of nos, 4 speed muncie, 10 bolt with 4:10 rear, stock suspension with cal tracs, best et so far 10.95 @ 127. it will pull a small six-incher off the line?

Run to Rund

Traction isn't optimized at 10.95/127. 10.95 with good traction would take 120 mph; and 127 mph indicates enough power for 10.20s or 10.30s. Many who aren't fully set up for NHRA Stock or Super Stock don't have fully optimized packages. Watch youtube videos of NHRA stock races and you will see some impressive wheelies.

Run to Rund

BY the way, x2 on what 380 racer posted. Jacking up the rear is a terrible idea. It was a "wannabe" trick in the 1960s where rear ends might be higher from cramming huge tires under the car. Weight transfer will be ruined and control arm geometry will be wrong. We know today that the rear of a coil car like the A body should be low.

Bill in NC

What?

Rickman48

Rund to Rund - not to hijack the thread - but what ET should 110 mph be?
Only had 13:50's but terrible 60' times with stock converter!