ah64pilot

Dude, you're not wheel standing your car or anything...your stock mounts are fine.

coppercutlass

yeah but before this engine gets put in im doing my suspension, I want all the advantage i can get from my suspension/ chassis. And i want to atleast yank em a few inches of the ground even if it's the left side. I dont wanna leave anything on the table with this build. Im going back to a th350 with a custom converter. I have a picture from last year of my car launching and it wa sooooo close from lifting the left front lol.

ah64pilot

Just put a torque strap on it. I used a 1/8" X 1" steel strap mounted on the outside of the frame at the steering gearbox bolt then ran it to the power steering support bracket hole on the block (on a 455). Something like that should work.

joesw31

Great idea

coppercutlass

I did that but i didnt like the angle of the chain. Im going to end up welding a bracket so i can run a chain with adjustable links like a trun buckle.

Rickman48

Seems a bit much to straighten out a crank that only seemed to need polishing.
Were there nicked journals?

coppercutlass

the crank needed to be cut ground down .020 on the rods .010 on the mains plus balancing and sizeing the pin bores correctly. This is the swap meet 350 im building my other 350 is the one with the bent crank that one is becoming a table for my patio.

380 Racer

^^^x2^^^

71 OLDS

Dick Miller suggests running a solid motor mount on the driver's side and a stock rubber mount on the passenger side. I talked to Dick about this and posted on ROP a while back. There were a few guys who were doing this and said they have had no issues.

http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....er=asc&start=0

I decided to go that route with my 70 Supreme. It's supposed to be an alternative to running the torque strap with rubber on both.

-Joe

coppercutlass

if i run a strap im gonna run and adjustable one. So i can have it tight on the track and loose on the street.

ah64pilot

Mine is tight all the time and I don't really notice a difference under part throttle cruise. To each his own. I like the steel strap because it's strong in both directions so it really stabilizes the engine. I've notice since I installed it that the car feels like more of a unit, rather than individual pieces working against each other.

coppercutlass

Just a small update. The machine shop is finally done with all my stuff minus the block im gonna see if they can do it in less than 2 weeks since that is the turn around i got told from another machine shop. As soon as i get my stuff back im measuring everything and assembling it . Im gonna keep things simple just a good prep and clean assembly.

coppercutlass

Alright i got my stuff today from built rite engine rebuilders in lombard il. Now im sending the block out to opel engineering to bore the cyl.'s and r&r the cam bearings. Im gonna check all the clearances , crank run out, back lash, piston size, bore size, everything will be measure before it is assembled. I decided to keep it simple as i was given some advice from anothe classicolds member. So hopefully it will be back together by the end of august. So far price has been. 500 for initial engine bought at a swap meet. Then 100 for the donor block since the .030 block was junk, Im still on budget for keeping the short block around 2 k. I have all my parts im re working the stock pan to hol 7 qt's ad extending the pick up .

coppercutlass

quick update. I dropped the block off at opel engineering. It's getting bored and honed w/ a tq plate. im getting the cam bearings r&r. Turn around time should be less than 2 weeks is what i was told hopefully i can start assembling by the end of the month.

coppercutlass

just a little update . I got around to measuring the rod journal clearances They are right at .003 with the journal being 2.105 and the inside of the bearing inside the rod torqued down being 2.108 . Once i get the block i will measure the mains. I used a mutitoyo micrometer and dial caliper. Im re measuring the bearing in the rod with telescopig gauges which i ordered last week just to ensure proper readings. I checked my caliper with a .025 shim and it gauged out perfect at .025 but calipers can be off sometimes the telescoping gauges ensure a better measurement .

cutlassefi

Not necessarily. A telescoping gauge can dig into the soft layer of the bearing skewing the measurement.
The only way to see what you really have is a low tension dial bore.
And jmo but .003 on a small block rod journal is getting a bit big.

coppercutlass

good to know. I have gotten pretty good with the gauges since i now work at a machine shop making 60 in- 104 in. diameter ring gear set's and pinions. Everything we set up is gauged out . I usually use the ratchet end on the mic then just snug it a bit on then give it a light turn with out the ratcheting end to get a good reading if it reads out good the tooling is usually -0 +0 . I guess i can order some bore gauges too lol. I looked into those too i guess having extra tools wont hurt.

coppercutlass

Im assuming the .003 will tighten up once i measure with a much beter / precise tool. dial calipers aren't the most accurate. the machine shop said they ground it down to have .0025 clearance . once i get in there with the proper tools i will probably get a better reading closer to 2.5 thou.

coppercutlass

Guy's im nearing the end of my build. just got the call from opel engineering and my block is done. Im going to keep it simple im not going to do studs windage tray etc. all im doing is im making my own deep sump pan and moding my pick up for it. So far my total cost looks like it's going to 1900 for the short block . 500 for the original .030 shortblock . 100 for the block to replace the juk block, 550 in parts from summit thats bearings cam gaskets everything to assemble, 400 for the crank work and balance, and 350 for the block work. so that makes 1900 for my short block. so adding it all up 1900+ the 1445 i already have invested into my heads and valve train+120 for the used intake that will carry over from the old build and 100 to mill the intake. thats 3457 . I do plan on running arp intake bolts. and im going to order new intake gaskets as well. for now when i get my block back im going to check size and the bores for roundness. i will post pics as i start to build along with all the specs for clearances . Im going to degree the cam aswell which will be a learning experience for me aswell. When it is all said and done i will also add all the little things that usually nickle and dime us.

SBORule

So the 380ci combo died because the #4 main web cracked using solid mounts and not because of all that epoxy kept falling out of those #7 heads you had Greg Godon port for ya.

380 Racer

The #4 main web was another problem totally. The 380 internals just got transplanted to the DX block.

coppercutlass

ok guys i have all my stuff home now. Here are some pics of the block and crank . talk about clean my dad did a great job of cleaning it up. he works for a metal stripping and de rusting company. The machine shop was amazed at how clean we got the block. here are some pics . im holding of for assembly untill i get my dial indicator and 4-5 mic to check the bores and use the bore gauge properly.

SBORule

I hope you take good ole dad on down to the Sizzler for dinner sometime in the near future when you get your car running again.

64Rocket

Are you going to install crank and one piston and measure the deck height in all four corners??

Or at least deck the block a couple thou to make sure it is straight..

Gene

coppercutlass

I checked the deck with a machinist's straight edge it's straight.

coppercutlass

OK guys i hit a big snafu. So today i went in to measure some stuff mainly the crank journals and journal bores w/ the bearings torqued down. On the main journals im right at 2.4894 which is .011 under factory high limit of 2.4995 if i remember correctly . now here is where it get's kinda iffy . I torqued down the bearings in the cap's and got mixed readings. up and down where correct but on diffrent sections on it read diffrently. Im kind of new to using the bore gauge but to make sure i wasnt tilting it too much i held my thumb by the edge so i could get readings close to each other. I also nothiced that when i put the bearings in and tried to pushed them in and get the edges linde up one side always seemed to stick up a bit. I used my machiist straight edge clamped to my vice and put the bearing in the cap and pushed down and i could rock it side to side. Im thinking the bearings are crushing unevenly but if im getting 2.4894 at the crank journal and the bearings should be .010 from 4.995 then all i have is .001 clearance . wtf!!!!!!!! i dont know who or what to point the finger at at this point. the machine shop said i should have .0025 clearance but seems like i have alot less. but the bearings seem like they are also a bit iffy. How should i approach this should i just order custom bearings ? or give my crank back to the machine shop or send the bearings back ???? Im a bit baffaled here any advice to steer me staright will be helpful.

SBORule

What Gene was suggesting would show you if the decks are square, not if the deck surface is flat.

When you put bearings in the rod halves and in the block and main caps, you put the bearing in so one side is even at the top on one side and you lay the bearing down on the rod and apply a little force with finger in the center of the half until the bearing is seated and even on both sides.

You shouldn't have to force them.

coppercutlass

Didn't force them. I just pushed down on the cap and rocked the main cap back n forth just a bit . I think the bearings are a bit bigger in diameter. I haven't had to force anything . The reason I clamped my machinist's straight edge down was so I can see if the bearing half was bigger than the main cap. All I did was put the bearing in the cap. Laid it on the straight edge pushed down lightly and was able to rock the cap just a bit. I would not try to force the bearnings in any way they weren't cheap. But I'm pretty sure they are bigger than neede considering the top to bottom measurement was spot on . And at the sides it was a lot less. To me it seems like the bearing is too big for the main bore and when o torque it down it distorts.

captjim

You will get different readings at the parting line. The bore will not be exactly round. The correct measurement is with the bearing installed, cap torqued to spec with whatever lubricant you are using, and then perpendicular (or straight up with the block upside down) to the parting line. The bearings will conform to the bore and the more crush, the better (within reason). If you want, you can torque the caps down without the bearings and check the crank bore, I always do this anyway.

coppercutlass

i did measure the bore with no bearing but did not write down what i got. I was so frustrated. I think i need the crank polished because based on what i got from the measurements i only have .001 clearance . I also think it could be the bearings but im just gonna have the machine shop measure and order new bearings. They told me to order .010 main bearings and i would have .0025 clearance but that aint happening.

captjim

OK, time to slow down. Polishing is not going to take off what you need. Bearings do not come in every .001 increment. It is probably your measurements that are off if the shop did the work correctly. The proper way to do it IMO, is to align hone to minimum spec (increases crush), install bearings and torque, measure, then have the crank cut for the desired tolerance. If the shop did the work, they probably did it that way, even if you omitted the align hone.

coppercutlass

i know the crank journal is right on 2.4894 with the mic. I can still slide it on and off the journal without scratching the journal but tight enough to not rock side to side. It rotated fine before i took it apart. when i torque down a cap the crank will not move. Im leaning towards clerance and bearing issues

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool thread Copper, how much does a bare block like that weigh? it's AMAZING how clean it is! i'd be almost scared to use it. lol

You'll have to post details of when you put the block back together. It's going to be my long term project to build my 350 rocket into a power-house.

captjim

I do not understand what that means.

Either everything was mocked up and measured or it wasn't. I am going to stop posting because I am already irritated, hopefully someone else can help you.

coppercutlass

the 2.4894 is the diameter of the main journal. I am mocking everything up and measuring everything . What i was saying is with the micrometer my measurement is 2.4894. If the factory left them at 2.4995 and im .011 with .010 bearings all i have is .001 clearance. For now im going to have the crank measure at a diffrent shop just to make sure i am correct. if it needs to be re sized it will fall on the machine shop since they told me to order .010 on the mains and .020 on the rods.

coppercutlass

It's the machine shops fault. I called king bearings their standard set is made to give .002 plus clearance at 2.4993. Stock should be 2.4995 so if i got a .010 set it's 2.4893 i got 2.4894 on my main journal . This explains why my crank was not spinning with one main cap torqued down. If the bearing does not crush completly evenly like jim mentioned. All i have is .001 on the vertical measurement split it and all i have is .0005 on the top and bottom and porbably none on the sides .,so the sides must be really really tight . The scary part is the machine shop that did the crank did not not write what the initial measurement was. I will use this as leverage call me crazy but im not paying for someone else's mistakes .

coppercutlass

little update guys. Im happy to say i made a small mistake . While i was fuguring out why my clearances where off i remember i used a diffrent block than what i started with the main caps where for the block i could not use. I went to my dad's shop today to pick up the main caps and bolts io degreased them cleaned the threads put the bearings in and voila i got .0023 clearance a little tight by 2 tenths but not much. I torqued down the crank and it spun with ease a little hard by hand but with a breaker bar just perfect . Im taking a quick break and going back to it tonight when it cools off.
I also do plan on calling the machine shop to explain my mistake and apologize.

oldsmoboogie

Glad to hear it worked out for you! Any chance we are gonna have any track numbers this season?

coppercutlass

Probably not this year. Maybe late fall depending on the weather. But chances are no. I'm going to a th350 from a th400. The goal is high 12's. Which should be attainable with the proper combo which is why I'm waiting till next season. Might hit mid 12's who knows. I just got the rotating assembly done and put together . still need to install cam and a few othere things but it's finally starting to look like ad engine again

64Rocket

You should have installed the cam with one piston in. It is much easier to degree the cam with one piston instead of all eight.
It is best to degree the cam, that way you know the cam and the cam card match numbers. A Cloyes true roller is the most accurate that I have used, many of the after market timing sets have been way off. If you don't degree, you are leaving horse power on the table.

Gene