young olds

So, I've had the same valve train for a while, which includes scorpion roller rockers. The engine has been nice and quiet but I had a valve float issue, so I got new springs and now I've adjusted the valves 3 times and I can still hear them. I got them quiet enough to where I can't here it unless the hood is up. So my question is do I just leave it alone and drive the car or do I need to investigate?

coppercutlass

does it do it when cold , hot , or all the time

young olds

Always

olds 307 and 403

Mine also have a slight tick but more cold with my Scorpion rocker arms. They are completely silent compared to Comp roller tips I had on before them.

coppercutlass

i had roller tips and no ticking , I went to full rollers and its even quieter if thats even possible.

You sure your valve lash is correct ? Went i went to full rollers i had a few rockers that needed an extra 1/8th of a turn to quiet them down. They say half a turn is .040 lifter preload and 3/4 is .060.

young olds

There were perfectly quiet before I changed my springs. Tried a few different methods, weird thing is it's louder with the valve covers on

TripDeuces

Is the spring retainer hitting the underside of the rocker arm?

young olds

I'm not sure, didn't think to check that. I did use the same retainers, all I changed were springs. Everything else was already there

young olds

It's gotten louder over the last few drives, too the point I don't want to drive it anymore. I've been suggested to change my lifters, what do you guys think?

olds 307 and 403

Give it a try. Also inspect pushrods, make sure they are straight and springs and rockers are good too. Mine aren't much louder than stock but much quieter than the roller tips. Make sure you don't have a loose header or blown exhaust gasket.

coppercutlass

I had a loud ticking when I found out I had a broken rocker arm.

young olds

I do have an exhaust leak but I know it isn't that. I'm going to order new lifters and see what happens. It's weird because before I changed springs it was so quiet.

Octania

"before I changed springs it was so quiet."

That says a lot
anything else altered at that time?

Always look first at the last thing fixed.

A hose makes a great stethoscope for pinpointing noises...

young olds

Literally only changed springs.

coppercutlass

have you tried undoing them and going to the old set ??????. what was the installed spring height . did you check for it ? Out of all 16 lifters on my new lunati cam i have 1 that sticks when cold and it broke a rocker arm and a pushrod becasue of this BUT because i had the inccorect pushrods. Gotta check everything. When i installed my new roller rockers i found that half a turn or appx. .040 lifter preload was not enough i had to give it another 1/8 to 1/4 turn to quiet things down as where my old roller tips where fine with just half a turn.

HWYSTR455

I've heard of bad batches of Scorpion rockers, as well as bad batches of PRW rockers.

The Comp roller tips are known for having an issue with the rocker *****/fulcrums, not fitting properly, and my set I had to lap the fulcrums all in. Bluing of the fulcrum area on the rocker is the tell-tale.

Here's a discussion on the rockers on another site:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...light=scorpion

Can see the attached pic of a Scorpion failure.

As for preload and the number of turns, it depends if you have a 7/17 stud or a 3/8 stud. Here is an excerpt from John Callies website:

b. If your adjuster nut is 7/16 x 20 threads per inch, then divide 1 inch by 20 threads per inch. One complete turn down on a 7/16 by 20 adjuster nut will move .050".

c. Next, divide .050" divide by 4 to calculate the distance for a quarter-turn of the adjuster nut (.050" / 4 = .0125").

d. For a 3/8 x 24 adjuster nut, the calculations are: 1" / 24 TPI = .042" per full turn and .042" / 4 = .0105" per quarter-turn.

e. Use the chart below to determine how many quarter-turns to tighten the adjuster nut after Zero-lash:

Cast Iron block and Cast Iron Head = .020" - .025"
Cast Iron block and Aluminum Head = .030" - .035"
Aluminum block and Aluminum Head = .045" - .050"

xxxxxxxxxx

If it's louder with the covers on, I would check the covers for contact. Checking the rocker/retainer for contact is a great idea too. Retainer/seal contact too.

Did you check the installed height after the new springs were installed?

.

young olds

I checked my installed hieght and worked with mark to get springs and shims. There's no contact with valve covers. Like I said springs are the only difference from before and it was quiet.

HWYSTR455

Guessing coil bind was checked too then? Just trying to give you ideas.

.

young olds

I didn't check every single valve, would coil bind cause a noise like a tapping lifter?

droldsmorland

Split the dictionary...If all you did was change the springs Id be looking at the springs first for; compatibility with the cam, rockers & retainers. Then look at correct installed height dimension, sitting properly in the spring seat/cup area on the head and coil bind as mentioned. Are you sure the keeps and retainers are all assembled and seated correctly? Did you have beehives and now have regular constant diameter springs or visa versa? Round verses oval coils. Check for interference between the outer and inner dampener spring(s) if running duals or triples...etc...bottom line what's different.

Next step; check the rockers as they were removed/disturbed. Are they installed and seated properly?

It's time to pull it apart and verify everything is in tolerance and installed properly, paying close attention to fresh witness marks. Olds valve train can be a PITA.

Does it sound like it's lifter or definitely rocker? The fact that the covers amplify it is one of 2 things; cover to valve train contact or the cover is acting like a sound amplifier. Peak at the offending pushrod(s) too. Maybe one got bent due to coil bind and every time you adjust your just bending it more.

young olds

I guess I use lifter tick as a generic term for loose rockers. I know there's no contact with the valve covers. I'll pull the covers and check all the springs for coil bind and proper fit of retainers and keepers.

droldsmorland

...and did you " have beehives and now have regular constant diameter springs or visa versa? Round verses oval coils?"
I have seen the above issues cause trouble.

young olds

Both are just plain valve springs

young olds

Finally opened it up to check stuff out. No coil bind but one of my rocker studs broke and the pushrod bent a bit. I think the lifter got stuck fully pumped up and messed everything up. I pulled all my rockers, pushrods and lifters to check/replace what it needs.

coppercutlass

I had that happen. It happened because I had very minimal lift clearance whatever the lifter would absorb was gone once it was stuck pumped up and it jammed things into things and I broke a rocker arm and bent a pushrod. I also may add i had pushrods that where .100 too long so that didnt help any.

young olds

My rocker arm is ok but the stud snapped at the guide plate. Pushrod is bent but not bad

coppercutlass

You probably have a decent rocker. I had the roller tips when that happened. My pushrods was also slightly bent

young olds

I have scorpions

z11375ss

I have Ford, yes Ford rocker arms on my motor. Suggested by my builder as the geometry fit perfectly. The rocker stays exactly on the valve stem as it should. It sounds like sewing machine but runs like a 455. My two cents. He said I would have had Chebby pistons too if I had come to him before the bottom end was built. Old school racer. His good friend was rebuilding a Lenco while I was at his shop. He's a retired Nuclear Engineer so he ain't stupid. Knows what it takes to make an engine run correctly.

coppercutlass

The full rollers I installed are ford prw stainless units . Price was nice and they worked out good. My valve train is much quieter and there was a diffrence in idle quality and how it rev'd up.

olds 307 and 403

I too have a slight tick but I think it may be a slightly blown Ultrseal collector gaskets. I wish he would have put back on the Percy's aluminum collector gaskets, need another set. If it is the rocker arm it may be slightly loose. These are 1.72 ratio, also Windsor Ford Scorpion aluminum roller rockers. I went with them for maximum lift to perk up the lazy, too small Performer cam. Much quieter than the comp roller tip rocker rocker arms they replaced.