djcrook73

what's up all, this used to be a debate among us neighborhood guys and i figured this is the right place to settle it... some of us including myself have always thought that the post 74 motors were no longer called or considered rockets but i have heard them referred to as such by different people and even have seen sellers say 307 rocket on occasion- which we all know is reaching for the moon there, as they run sweet but really? olds gurus please enlighten me! i know they called them different names from the rocket 88 , sky rocket ultra high compression and super rocket right through the rocket 350/455. also, what were the differences from the 70-74 motors from the 75 up? anything besides compression drop for 71 and subsequent years for emissions? any changes to the cam profiles? and i mean across the board non -high perf motors just the everyday ones. basically would a 74 rocket 350 and the 350 in my 78 delta be the same pretty much? thanks from rhode island!

starfire

Any Olds V-8 is a Rocket (except the 260, I will not allow that. Oh, and probably not the diesel). It was nothing more than a marketing term. But none the less Olds engines are the best.

1969w3155

Olds called all of it's V8's Rockets from 1949-1976, excluding the 215 ci. It did not matter whether they were high or low compression, small displacement, or large, that was a name for the OHV V8 that debuted in '49, as a marketing tool, and a nod to the emerging jet age.

starfire

The 215 was the Rockette.

MDchanic

I think the diesel was just the "rock."

- Eric

djcrook73

nice, love the input! if i remember right i recall the air cleaner lid decals changing from rocket to oldsmobile before the displacement callout after 74 and im thinking that's where this question even came from. david

joe_padavano

Bottom line is that anyone who thinks the term "Rocket" means anything is clueless.

jaunty75

I believe you are correct. My '73 Custom Cruiser's 455 has "Oldsmobile Rocket 455" on the air cleaner. The 455 in the the '75 Delta 88 I once owned had only "Oldsmobile 455." I don't know if '74 was like '73 or like '75, but somewhere in there the word "Rocket" was removed from the top of the engine.

It kind of makes you wonder. If Oldsmobile didn't think enough of its engine to call it a Rocket, should we?

ent72olds

oldcutlass

Next your gonna tell us there is no easter bunny, tooth fairy, or santa claus. Oooooh the horror!

1969w3155

WHAT!!! I don't know how many times that I have had people insist that the "Rocket" motor was something special among Olds engines, always thinking special valves, "internal" or whatever, and when I try to explain it to them, they think that I am wrong!.....whaddayado?

brown7373

The "Rocket" was pretty much any Olds engine that was installed after 1949 (I think). In my opinion, that would exclude the Chevy or corporate engines they started installing in the 70s (?). That created quite a stir at the time and a number of lawsuits from Olds buyers who didn't bargain on it having Chevy power in it.

Octania

au contraire, mon homme

It means "Oldsmobile Engine" which is by no means "nothing."

Now the REAL question is, what is the "GOLDEN ROCKET" of fame and fable??

Paladin31

Chris was that the 1955 XP-55 (or something like that)? Brett

Kennybill

Back in the day, when I was into dragging old 88 & 98,'s out of fields and off hillsides, I use to hear this all the time. They always thought the car sunk up to the frame was worth a lot more because it had the "ROCKET" engine in it. Depending on the car I usually had a comeback. If it was a 2-barrel engine, I would say, "no, the Rocket engine has the "big" four barrel on it!" If it was a 4-barrel engine in a 88/98, I would say, "that's not the Rocket engine, the rocket's only in the 442!" Usually the price would then drop! It was a big joke between me and my Olds buddies. But when I sold one they were Rockets again! Ken

Hurst/Olds 73/74

Whaddayado?...You sell them a "Rocket 350" for twice as much, that's what!

BTW, the air cleaner lid on both of the 1974 Hurst/Olds I've owned had "Rocket 350" on them, so I assume the 1974 was the same as 1973 back. The 1975 Hurst/Olds I currently own has "Oldsmobile 350" on it. It sounds like 1975 was the year they dropped the "Rocket" on the decal, same time they threw on a catalytic converter and stopped the true dual exhaust.

Allan R

slantflat

Seems to me the VIN on my Grandmother's 79 Delta 88 had an "R" denoting an Olds 350, which it did indeed have. That car would move!

Intragration

This is my thought too. Oldsmobile V8 engine. Other brands had ways of referring to their engines, and they encompassed various groups of engines. If you say Chebby small block, or MKIV, or Windsor, or Mopar Wedge, those all mean something. They're broad groups, but they mean something. Same with Rocket.

jensenracing77

they used the rocket logo on the 91-92 W-41 engines and i have seen publications calling the Quad 4 "Oldsmobile's smallest rockets" I always thought it was just the name for Oldsmobile's engine division.

Intragration

Rocket was first used in 1949 for the new Rocket V8. Prior to that, it was just an inline 8. The Rocket was a big improvement, my dad tells me stories of driving his boss's car around in the early '50s, and they were apparently pretty unbelievable compared to anything else at the time. The Rocket designation continued into the new engine design of the late '60s, and that basic design continued until 1990, when they killed the Olds V8. W-41s were pretty quick and the Quad 4 WAS an Oldsmobile engine, but I don't think there's any significant correlation between the Quad 4 and the Rocket V8s. The magazine you read that in was probably just playing on words calling it a "rocket". I don't know when the rocket logo started -- maybe '49? -- but that WAS the Oldsmobile logo in some form or another until the end.

djcrook73

joe p that's kinda cold , i thought it was a fairly legitimate question as i am not as knowledgeble on the olds engines and cars as some of you.. (and have never rebuilt one myself yet) i felt the engines were pretty much the same through the production run, but with oldsmobile changing the engine color from gold to blue for 75(at least on the 350) dropping the rocket name from the air cleaner, and adding the catalytic converter, i always wondered if there were any changes to the carb jetting or cam profile to better work with the cat. hence the question. i may be high on this one, but i remember the gold 350s running stronger than the blue later ones in a late 80s street race. my friend had a 72 cutlass supreme with a 350 and it used to open up a big can of whoop *** on whatever it raced! i was 14 in 1987 when he had this car and riding in it was my first olds experience.. i have loved them ever since! so at the end of all this it seems the name was just a marketing thing, but i still would not call the engine in my 76 98 a 455 rocket, or the engine in my 78 delta a rocket 350. i guess to each his own on splitting hairs there. this is a great place to quench my thirst for oldsmobile knowledge for sure so thank you for the info!

MDchanic

Well, sure, every make changed almost all of these things every year through the '70s to keep up with ever changing, emissions, and then fuel economy, standards.

- Eric

Intragration

I don't think that was directed specifically at you, I think he was saying that when it comes down to it, Rocket is just sort of a blanket designation. But your question was a legitimate one, there were TONS of different engines variations, even for the same model year. Some years had as many as 12 different distributor setups, who knows how many carbs, probably different cams, certainly varying by year, and over the years, compression ratios went down and catalytic converters and HEI were added, not to mention the cars ballooned in weight. At a certain point, any semblance of performance was lost. I think the change from "Rocket" to "Oldsmobile" on the air cleaner had more to do with the realization that having the word "Rocket" on the air cleaner of a 190 horsepower 455 in a 4,900 pound car would be kind of insulting.

jensenracing77

I know some don't like it but Oldsmobile used the rocket emblem on this 1991 engine. it does not have the word rocket but i figure if the emblem is there it is close enough for me. If you ever get to drive a W-41... you will agree that this is worthy of the rocket logo.

hard to see in this picture but the rocket is just to the left of the W-41

1969w3155

I don't know if the rocket on the W41 designated a "rocket" engine or just the fact that the rocket emblem was synonamous with Oldsmobile, as much as the bow tie was Chevy's trademark.

Allan R

I agree, only I'd go a little further saying that from the 40's and on, Rocket and Oldsmobile were almost interchangeable. The rocket emblem/badge has evolved over time to reflect the changing times.

TK-65

This man is correct.

Intragration

Ha ha why wouldn't we like it? That's the Oldsmobile logo. Why wouldn't an Oldsmobile motor in an Oldsmobile vehicle have the Oldsmobile logo on it? That doesn't make it a "Rocket 138". But don't take my word for it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Quad-4_engine

djcrook73

mike i think you probably put it best as far as the best answer for my question goes. upon looking through my 76 olds dealer brochure after my post, i noticed it lists the rocket 455 as the standard engine for the toronado, but that is the only mention i have seen after 74 anywhere . so even if it was just a name, i still feel that 74 was the cutoff year for me calling it a rocket but do agree that the rocket however used, says oldsmobile. im glad so many of you responded as i learned alot about the different engines and that they continually evolved and changed with the times just as they do with todays engines. mike i'll bet that 455 provides plenty of motorvation for your cutlass and i also have a strong one on standby to replace the 350 in my 78 delta which i will be restoring with all the upgrades i always wanted for a grandpa sleeper. oh, and jensen did that w41 engine come in the quad 442 or was it special order and/or available in anything else? i definitely feel much more educated about the brand so thank you all

Intragration

Glad to help, and yes, the Cutlass can get out of it's own way. I love sleepers, your Delta will be great with a 455.

starfire

1991 Cutlass Calais Quad 442
1992–1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX

brown7373

Olds introduced the overhead valve V8 in 1949 model year and they called this new, modern engine the "Rocket". Compared to the flat heads and inline engines of the time, it was very fast and smooth, getting to 60 at about 10 seconds or so!!! It was then a marketing tool. Like Intragration said, it was like small block, Windsor or even MOPAR's Hemi today. So just about any engine installed in an Olds was called a Rocket. I think that included the Chevy 350 and the Pontiac Quad 4 that was installed in various Oldsmobiles.

djcrook73

thanks starfire

Intragration

Yes the '49-up Olds V8 was the Rocket. No, they didn't call a Chebby 350 a Rocket, just like they don't call it a Fireball or a CobraJet. The Quad 4 was an Oldsmobile motor, you're thinking of the Tech IV, which was a Pontiac motor. They might call a Tech IV a "Poncho", because Poncho is more a blanket term for Pontiac in general, but Rocket is more a reference to an Oldsmobile V8 motor, UNLESS you have a Rocket 88, in which case you could say "I have a Rocket" and you could be talking about your motor or your car, no one would know.

brown7373

My comment on a Chevy 350, was pertaining to when they started installing the Chevy engine in the Olds, and didn't tell anyone. Did it still have the Olds Rocket decals or was it generic looking? There were a number of lawsuits because Olds owners didn't want and weren't told that their new Olds was Chevy powered. They didn't say Chevy on the aircleaner, but did they say Rocket?

Intragration

Got it. I don't know what the answer is. The Oldsmobile and Chebby motors are different, and they were mixing and matching them, I have to believe that they somehow let this be known. It's not like this was the first time non-Oldsmobile motors were installed in Oldsmobiles. But again, I don't know what the answer is.

1969w3155

By the time that the engine swaps started with GM, the Rocket emblem was no longer being used on the air cleaners, nor I had I ever heard them being referred to as Rocket engines in that time period. We didn't even refer to them as Rocket engines in the '70's-80's when we drove and owned these cars, (my friends and I that owned Oldsmobiles). During that time period, even though many of the engines carried that on the air cleaner, when speaking of the Rocket Olds, it was always in reference to the 50's, early 60's Olds cars.

brown7373

I disagree with you 1969w3155 as far as Rocket being 50s to early 60s. Every one of the 8 available engines in the 1972 Olds brochure is listed as a "Rocket", so Olds hadn't abandoned the term from their marketing.

And Olds and GM definitely did not make it known that they were substituting Chevy 350 for the Olds 350. The defense GM offered back then was that the Chevy 350 was a better, more advanced than the old design Olds 350. Buyers were angry paying more for an Olds with a Chevy engine than a comparable Chevy. They won those lawsuits, and after that, GM started the disclaimer about various corporate engines were installed.

jaunty75

I don't recall this being the reason. Olds was selling so many cars that they simply ran out of motors, so they substituted the Chevy engine. Another, related reason was, as I understand it, that the Olds 350 was the only GM engine of that size that met California emission standards, so GM was putting them in non-Olds cars to be sold there, and they ultimately ran out of engines. I doubt very much that Olds would tell a customer "we put a Chevrolet engine in your car because we think it's better than any engine we could produce" or something like that.

Oldsmobile's and GM's defense was that customers were still getting a General Motors engine of the stated size, power and so forth. But it was shortly after this that GM added a disclaimer to all of its sales materials stating something like "GM cars can contain engines produced by any of its corporate divisions" or words to that effect.