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i am new to the community, in fact, I just registered. That’s because I am about to buy my first Oldsmobile. It’s an Toronado from 1982.
So my new Olds is on its way to me and a typical beginners question occurs:
how can I get more more power out of it/ what can I buy to improve it ?
I got some mechanical skill but mostly with German cars. All I owned was old Mercedes or BMW. And who guessed it, they are waaaay different.
Also, what’s the first things I should do ?
I am going to do an Oil change at first and pretty much replace any liquid in the car.
Wash the transmission.
Replace the fuel pump and get new filters.
Any other advise ?
Thanks in advance,
Patrick.
Here’s a pic of my beauty
Last edited by KoppPatti; September 23rd, 2020 at 01:07 AM.
The 307 is a good engine, but it doesnt make a ton of power. It can be upgraded but w the 350 the same size and approx weight many will just build a 350 and replace the 307.
The obstacle you might have are emissions laws in Germany. How strict are they? You could delete the smog equipment but this would DEFINITELY cause you to fail an inspection/tail pipe sniffer test. Your best bet might be to tune it up, maintain it and drive it. Let us know what registration is like in your area of Germany. Here in the U.S. registration and emissions laws vary by state.
Not much can be done to make a 307 a strong motor. It would be better as suggested to go to a 350. If the car is really nice and original consider tuning it the best you can and driving it as-is. Watch the 307 for oil consumption, check it often and for coolant leaks at the intake manifold gasket. 307's are like 260's, overall reliable but low on power.
Don't let anyone without specific experience do anything to the carburetor on that car. If original the Computer Command Control CCC would be better left alone unless there is a problem.
There are many Cadillac Eldorado owners that wished their cars were equipped with the 307. The Eldorado and Toronado were similar but the Caddy had the terrible HT4100. In 79 Cadillac was using Olds 350's in the Eldorado.
Welcome! Nice car!
If you want to go even bigger, a 403 is the same block with bigger bore. As used in the Pontiac Firebird around 1979, there's lots of room for improvements. Old American saying: "there's no substitute for cubic inches!"
First of all thanks for all the nice comments and for welcoming me.
Originally Posted by RetroRanger
The 307 is a good engine, but it doesnt make a ton of power. It can be upgraded but w the 350 the same size and approx weight many will just build a 350 and replace the 307.
welcome to CO nice toro
Well what kind of upgrades do you mean ? I haven’t found a lot for it. Especially in Germany is nothing about that.
Originally Posted by redoldsman
Interesting. I have never seen a Toronado with side pipes. Are they connected or just for looks? Good luck and enjoy your car.
those are actually connected and make a great sound
Originally Posted by Olds64
Patrick, that's a beautiful Toro!
The obstacle you might have are emissions laws in Germany. How strict are they? You could delete the smog equipment but this would DEFINITELY cause you to fail an inspection/tail pipe sniffer test. Your best bet might be to tune it up, maintain it and drive it. Let us know what registration is like in your area of Germany. Here in the U.S. registration and emissions laws vary by state.
Thanks !
It’s an historic car so there’s a bit of space where I can move in after I got TÜV.
so what exactly do you mean by tuning ?
Originally Posted by Sugar Bear
Not much can be done to make a 307 a strong motor. It would be better as suggested to go to a 350. If the car is really nice and original consider tuning it the best you can and driving it as-is. Watch the 307 for oil consumption, check it often and for coolant leaks at the intake manifold gasket. 307's are like 260's, overall reliable but low on power.
Don't let anyone without specific experience do anything to the carburetor on that car. If original the Computer Command Control CCC would be better left alone unless there is a problem.
More pictures when you get it???
Enjoy the car and WELCOME!
Alright,
i will Upload more pictures when I get him and start working on that baby. Probably need some advice then and there
Last edited by KoppPatti; September 23rd, 2020 at 09:53 AM.
Welcome! Nice car!!! I would think a 1968 to 1972 Olds 350 engine would fit right in. And wake it up big time! I change out my 1984 H/O 307 to 350. Best think I ever did.
Torsion bar suspension in the front. I have a 85 Seville, same K-body platform. Wish I could put a 350 olds in mine. But too many things to change.
Replace the front shocks with Monroe sensa trac shocks or now called MONRO-MATIC. Great soft ride and yet great handling for that heavy front end.
My Seville rides like a couch in the boat, on the water. Is your Toronado ride like that also???? More pictures please! When you can.
Btw should I check the Timing chain ? She got around 37000 miles on her.
If its 37,000 miles just leave that engine in and in joy the ride. I do not believe there was a place on the odometer over 99,999. Hopefully not 137,000.
Send good pictures of engine bay. Normally you can tell a 37,000 from a 137,000 miles.
Tell tale of higher mileage is a sand pitted windshield, worn driver's seat, armrest and brake pedal. A driver's door with worn hinges that drops when opened...take a look at these, hopefully it's 37K. That would be awesome!!!
Does this have a four speed transmission? What is the final drive ratio? Google said maybe 3.15. Can this be changed to a lower gear? I have no idea about front drive. This would be the easiest improvement on a 307 rear drive.
I’m not going to swap my engine. From all I heard it is really complicated to swap it here in Germany. Also I need the historic plating otherwise I have to pay a lot of money. And I only get it if everything is original. I might have some trouble with the side pipes but I think they’ll give it to me with them.
For example, I have to pay 190€ yearly with the historic plate. Without it, it would cost around 900€.
I hope it’s around 37000 miles. But it does look like it. I’m buying it from an old man which is mostly a good sign He told me the interior is nearly perfect and it looks like it. He had a garage where the car stood and didn’t drive a lot. The engine looks good as well for a 38 year old car.
The engine looks like its 137,000. The 307 and 350 look and are the exactly the same size. Just use the 307 air cleaner and valve covers. No one could tell the different. Check the cylinder pressure.
Rent a tester. If good. If you keep the 307 replace the timing chain -sockets with a good Cloyes and replace mechanical fuel pump. My 307 fuel pump leaked into engine block with out me knowing.
Spin a bearing on the crankshaft. Your car has air rear shocks, with ride leveler. Real nice when you have a car full of passenger and loaded trunk! I can see the air compressor on the drivers side.
You come to the right place. There are guys on here who have tons of know age!
The engine looks like its 137,000. The 307 and 350 look and are the exactly the same size. Just use the 307 air cleaner and valve covers. No one could tell the different. Check the cylinder pressure.
Rent a tester. If good. If you keep the 307 replace the timing chain -sockets with a good Cloyes and replace mechanical fuel pump. My 307 fuel pump leaked into engine block with out me knowing.
Spin a bearing on the crankshaft. Your car has air rear shocks, with ride leveler. Real nice when you have a car full of passenger and loaded trunk! I can see the air compressor on the drivers side.
You come to the right place. There are guys on here who have tons of know age!
John
hey John,
how can you tell it’s 137000 ? I‘ll keep the engine and do the time chain now for sure !
like I said, the inside looks really good.
just found another pic:
Is it still worth buying with over 135k ?
Last edited by KoppPatti; September 24th, 2020 at 12:26 AM.
how can I get more more power out of it/ what can I buy to improve it ?
Considering you already have dual exhaust, as is, not much.
Originally Posted by Destructor
Put a 350 in it.
Yes !
Originally Posted by redoldsman
Interesting. I have never seen a Toronado with side pipes.
Neither have I, cool looking car.
Originally Posted by KoppPatti
I’m not going to swap my engine.
Good car with a great ride but powerful it is not. Unfortunately the engine swap is your best bet. I have a high performance version of your engine that I played with for years to get more power out of it. 200 flywheel net HP is about as good as you are going to do without a cam swap, etc. And that's on a version that has 30 more horsepower than yours to begin with.
As has been mentioned a close to perfect tune and a possible gear swap is about all she wrote. Other than that a performance build is the way to go but not worth it in my book.
how can you tell it’s 137000 ? I‘ll keep the engine and do the time chain now for sure !
like I said, the inside looks really good.
just found another pic:
Is it still worth buying with over 135k ?
Here are a few photos of one of my 1985 Seville. K - body like yours. This one had 73,000 by an old guy who never let it see bad weather and clean and maintain all the time. I just cleaned up some dust in the engine bay. And some different sealants on the parts. My first 85 Seville only had 11,000 miles. That was 15 years ago, I can not fine photos of that one.
Oatrick,
Welcome aboard !!! My Wife and I have a 84 Riviera which is basically the same car. Not sure what you can do to increase performance without getting really serious into the engine. The rear end ratio is the one thing that is fairly easy to change depending on what you have now. Only problem might be finding another differential over where you are.
I have always been pretty happy with the performance of ours. Its not a hot rod but it moves along good enough for me. It is my Wife's daily driver
If the timing chain looks real good it's probably a 37,000 mile vehicle.
My neighbor bought an 84 Eldorado with low mileage. very nice car. Highwaystar how is that 4100 holding up, supposedly by 85 they were a better engine.
I bet the 307 moves your Toronado along well enough, just enjoy the nice ride. I had a beautiful 88 Caprice LS that rode beautifully and was very comfy. It only had a 305 but I was satisfied. It was my daily driver and I had my 350 powered Cutlass as my toy.
Last edited by Destructor; September 24th, 2020 at 09:45 AM.
If the timing chain looks real good it's probably a 37,000 mile vehicle.
My neighbor bought an 84 Eldorado with low mileage. very nice car. Highwaystar how is that 4100 holding up, supposedly by 85 they were a better engine.
I'm bet the 307 moves your Toronado along well enough, just enjoy the nice ride. I had a beautiful 88 Caprice LS that rode beautifully and was very comfy. It only had a 305 but I was satisfied. It was my daily driver and I had my 350 powered Cutlass as my toy.
After doing research. I found after a certain VIN# in 1985. GM modified the engine. Some are over 200,000 and still running. My latest one has 130,000. But a rare one that I always wanted. Love my 1987 Olds. But sometime, this old man body likes that cushy 85 Seville. Like I said before" A couch on a boat in the water" Nothing I ever drove had a better ride. Below my Olds and the third Seville I owned.
Here is the latest. Number four! It is at the auto shop for aliment, repair A/C, replace vinyl top and head liner. Will take more pictures of her when done. 1985 Cadillac Seville Commemorative Edition
I replace everything I could in the engine bay that could wear out. Replace all the suspension, brakes, fuel pump, shocks, bulbs, radiator, etc, Have in reserve computer control and other parts. That are NOS at a good price.
After doing research. I found after a certain VIN# in 1985. GM modified the engine. Some are over 200,000 and still running. My latest one has 130,000. But a rare one that I always wanted. Love my 1987 Olds. But sometime, this old man body likes that cushy 85 Seville. Like I said before" A couch on a boat in the water" Nothing I ever drove had a better ride. Below my Olds and the third Seville I owned.
Here is the latest. Number four! It is at the auto shop for aliment, repair A/C, replace vinyl top and head liner. Will take more pictures of her when done. 1985 Cadillac Seville Commemorative Edition
I replace everything I could in the engine bay that could wear out. Replace all the suspension, brakes, fuel pump, shocks, bulbs, radiator, etc, Have in reserve computer control and other parts. That are NOS at a good price.
that is one good looking car !
Americans are hard to get here. Also Petrol is quite expensive.. but I really wanna drive a 70s Cadillac someday. One Johnny cash always sings about 😂🤷🏾♂️
Patrick, I drove a older Volkswagen Type 3 Fastback as a young man. Loved it, drive all day on a tank of gas. In the Catskill mountain in New York where I lived. Roomy, comfortable, ran great! Did not even need to push in the clutch to change gears. My ex girlfriend mom's car. Are they common by you! I would kill for one.
I look for the model cars I want for a long time, before buying one. After looking at alot of cars. You with know the right one when you see it. Do not rush into getting one. l
Look on craigslist. That is where I found most of the Seville's. Get the cleanest you can afford.
Patrick, I drove a older Volkswagen Type 3 Fastback as a young man. Loved it, drive all day on a tank of gas. In the Catskill mountain in New York where I lived. Roomy, comfortable, ran great! Did not even need to push in the clutch to change gears. My ex girlfriend mom's car. Are they common by you! I would kill for one.
Oh nice, I don’t like Volkswagen that much.. but the old ones are really good cars. I life near Wolfsburg which is where VW was founded.
The car you had, Volkswagen 1600 Typ 3 starts here at around 8000€ in a good condition.
My dad used to drive a Scirocco 1 GTi when he was young, that thing rocks ^^
my first car was a BMW E36 Convertible. One of my absolute favourite cars. Would buy another E36 anytime. Bought it for a few bucks and had to fix a few things but after that I had no problem at all with that car.
I will look at both cars probably. Old American cars are really rare here. Mostly really expensive if you want a fabric new one. I don’t have the biggest budget so I start looking for nuggets
We don’t use Craigslist here that much 😂 more eBay and extra car sites.
Last edited by KoppPatti; September 25th, 2020 at 01:55 AM.
Nice looking car also, I am intrigued by the black one with side pipes. In a sense a very bizarre modification on a high end luxury car like a Toronado.
One thing to keep in mind KoppPatti, the big powerful Toros were 1966-1974. By the early 1980s it was already downsized to midsize level and weight. Powertrains were equally reduced in both power and strength. The Toros you are interested in are beautiful luxurious cars with great ride quality and are highly reliable. But none of them are performers. They are the epitome of cruisers.
Originally Posted by KoppPatti
Also Petrol is quite expensive..
When properly maintained mileage is good on 3rd generation Toronados like the ones you are interested in.
Originally Posted by KoppPatti
I don’t have the biggest budget so I start looking for nuggets
A fellow member recently had an original muscle era version for sale here, 1st generation. Car was so special it outperformed Cadillac in its day. Price was likely in your ballpark... However older versions are gas guzzlers. In any case you should be able to pick up a nice one for a decent price regardless of year. Being front wheel drive keeps prices reasonable.
The black one doesn’t have one either. It’s just painted white. They made vinyl roofs for the third generation only in 84 and 85.
But I love the look of vinyl roofs to be honest
I don't and you won't like the rot associated with them. Really go over everything on both cars. These are the only affordable Olds for decent price and condition around here right now. Pre 85 is the way to go, the 85 and up 307 swirl port powered cars had many complaints for being underpowered back when these were on the road in great numbers. My Daughter's friend just picked up a 85 Tornado. I wasn't going go rain on his parade and tell him how his was powered by a swirl port 307 turd.
[QUOTE=VORTECPRO;1282152]NHRA stock 307 powered 4400 pound station wagons can run 13.80s.
You can throw money into almost anything to make it run fast. As he is on a budget. Everything you call stock is far, far from stock! Stock car means the car in its original condition. Condition in which you bought the car from Showroom. Nothing is changed or swapped. As this NHRA stock 307 can be very expensive to build, it is not stock! Going to an good running early 350 Old's. Will be way cheaper and physically the exact same dimension. Like your 70's Buick GS you called stock. Having street raced a true stock 1970 Buick 350 GS, back in 1973. Great car! My 1987 Cutlass with a highly modified early Old's 350. Will blow the doors off the 1970 Buick GS 350. Stick with what you know best, chevy.
Pretty obvious to anyone with eyes neither one is remotely close to stock...
It's also pretty useless unless you can tell the OP what was done, what it cost, and the impact it will have on actually driving the thing on the street in his country.
Pretty obvious to anyone with eyes neither one is remotely close to stock...
It's also pretty useless unless you can tell the OP what was done, what it cost, and the impact it will have on actually driving the thing on the street in his country.
That whole car was built for 8000.00 according to the owner. The engine was machined by a friend of mine, and was bone stock blue printed except for extra duration on the hyd cam. But I have to agree theres not much here for the OP.......
That whole car was built for 8000.00 according to the owner. The engine was machined by a friend of mine, and was bone stock blue printed except for extra duration on the hyd cam. But I have to agree theres not much here for the OP.......
Hate to break it to you, but you're full of crap. Those engines were 170 HP MAX from the factory. No chance in hell a cam swap pulls the front tires on a car like that. The heads were ***** the intakes were ***** the exhaust manifolds were ****. No chance in hell it was stock other than a cam. None.
That whole car was built for 8000.00 according to the owner. The engine was machined by a friend of mine, and was bone stock blue printed except for extra duration on the hyd cam.
I hear you Vortec, but they may have left out a part of the story like a 150 NOS shot...
I have a 1987 442 bone stock very healthy powertrain, (garaged parked for years now) she chirped tires on the 1-2 with transmission shifting, when I got her. Proceeded to get all known tweaks done on her. Performance chip, max performance setting on TV cable, advanced timing, some stuff done to carb, etc, etc, etc. (Sorry but its been about 10 years since so memory a bit foggy.)
15.1 @ 89 MPH is all she wrote. 3560 test weight with rear tires so short it was like I had 4.11s...
Know of someone who had a Y code that was cammed. He was essentially matching my Code 9 in performance. On the other hand know of someone that had a G-Body 442 that had a stock Toro 425 swapped in. Instant beast, same level of performance as your acquaintances wagon. High 13s with a stock engine swap. To me why bother pouring money into a 307...
Originally Posted by VORTECPRO
But I have to agree theres not much here for the OP.......
Exactly, your are very optimistic (a great trait to have) and I appreciate the support you gave me in my stock 350 performance thread.
Going back to the 307 for a moment. Everything done on my 87 442 managed to reduce factory ET by 1.5 seconds and pick up 6 mph. But a G-Body 442 is 4 seconds quicker than a 3rd gen Toro to begin with. The OP is not getting decent performance out of its 307 without a buildup IMHO.
P.S. trying to get the 69 to the track hopefully when temps hit that sweet spot (50s or less) looking for that elusive 15.4 @ 90 MPH. Will keep you and fellow members posted in said thread.
Last edited by 69CSHC; September 27th, 2020 at 10:00 PM.
Reason: spelling
Welcome Patrick.
Your Toro looks like it's the rare XSC model with the sport steering wheel, sport painted mirrors, and bucket seats with console.
Doug
September 22nd, 2020, 11:31 PM
He told me the interior is nearly perfect and it looks like it. He had a garage where the car stood and didn’t drive a lot. The engine looks good as well for a 38 year old car.
