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The 307 is a great motor, I got over 400,000 km out of one. One thing they are not, is a good performance platform. A weak, windowed block with crappy flowing heads, especially the later tiny swirl port heads. Look at Dale Robinson's 307 that put out over 400 hp. He basically did what the NRHA guys did. He raised the compression 2 points with modern forged pistons, rods and a 330 crank lightened a bunch. He also spent endless hours moving all the ports around in the heads. He used an aggressive Mopar lobe with .921" flat tappet lifters. Even he knew the 7A heads weren't worth touching, he did 5A heads. Most guys, if they can get away with it, sleeve the diesel or Nascar block. Otherwise, I believe the 307 blocks last 50 passes and the block is toast. The big bore and much stronger 350 block with a 4" stroker crank is a no brainer for a performance build.
If the timing chain looks real good it's probably a 37,000 mile vehicle.
My neighbor bought an 84 Eldorado with low mileage. very nice car. Highwaystar how is that 4100 holding up, supposedly by 85 they were a better engine.
I bet the 307 moves your Toronado along well enough, just enjoy the nice ride. I had a beautiful 88 Caprice LS that rode beautifully and was very comfy. It only had a 305 but I was satisfied. It was my daily driver and I had my 350 powered Cutlass as my toy.
In 1985, there was a change in the casting of the blocks for these engines--reinforcements were added. Eldorado with serial numbers after FE623772 had this new block and are sought after by knowing buyers. .Seville's also https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...illac-eldorado
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by 69CSHC
I hear you Vortec, but they may have left out a part of the story like a 150 NOS shot...
I have a 1987 442 bone stock very healthy powertrain, (garaged parked for years now) she chirped tires on the 1-2 with transmission shifting, when I got her. Proceeded to get all known tweaks done on her. Performance chip, max performance setting on TV cable, advanced timing, some stuff done to carb, etc, etc, etc. (Sorry but its been about 10 years since so memory a bit foggy.)
15.1 @ 89 MPH is all she wrote. 3560 test weight with rear tires so short it was like I had 4.11s...
Know of someone who had a Y code that was cammed. He was essentially matching my Code 9 in performance. On the other hand know of someone that had a G-Body 442 that had a stock Toro 425 swapped in. Instant beast, same level of performance as your acquaintances wagon. High 13s with a stock engine swap. To me why bother pouring money into a 307...
Exactly, your are very optimistic (a great trait to have) and I appreciate the support you gave me in my stock 350 performance thread.
Going back to the 307 for a moment. Everything done on my 87 442 managed to reduce factory ET by 1.5 seconds and pick up 6 mph. But a G-Body 442 is 4 seconds quicker than a 3rd gen Toro to begin with. The OP is not getting decent performance out of its 307 without a buildup IMHO.
P.S. trying to get the 69 to the track hopefully when temps hit that sweet spot (50s or less) looking for that elusive 15.4 @ 90 MPH. Will keep you and fellow members posted in said thread.
94 mph @ 4400 pounds 280 crankshaft HP. And yes the engine was blue printed to NHRA stock 307 specifications. If your interested I can send you the link to the build. Stock cast pistons, stock unported surfaced heads with a valve job, stock crank, stock intake, stock carb, stock oil pan, stock lifters, stock cam lift. NHRA U/SA 307 Olds wagons have run 13.80s.
I am betting that wagon is pre 85 and will ridiculous gearing, like 4.30+. Again it will have 10+ to 1 compression on race gas and no where near stock exhaust, the pre 85 cast iron manifolds suck but not as bad as the tubular on the 85 and up. They were so bad Olds kept the cast iron manifolds on the 307 HO. Dual exhaust alone is worth a second in the 1/4 mile on a H/O or 442 with a stock 307 HO. The factory crossover pipe is a joke and limited the 307 a lot. Olds gained 30 hp on the 307 HO swirl port on the 85 FE3X prototype with ram air, shorty headers and a Y pipe. Why GM could not put dual exhaust on any car from the 80's is beyond me.
Welcome Patrick.
Your Toro looks like it's the rare XSC model with the sport steering wheel, sport painted mirrors, and bucket seats with console.
Doug
Hey Doug, thanks for welcoming me.
are you sure it’s the XSC model ? I did a bit of research and all I found was that they build the XSC in 1980 and 81. Mine is from 1982. But you’re right with the steering wheel and all. Hopefully you can proof me wrong.
I am betting that wagon is pre 85 and will ridiculous gearing, like 4.30+. Again it will have 10+ to 1 compression on race gas and no where near stock exhaust, the pre 85 cast iron manifolds suck but not as bad as the tubular on the 85 and up. They were so bad Olds kept the cast iron manifolds on the 307 HO. Dual exhaust alone is worth a second in the 1/4 mile on a H/O or 442 with a stock 307 HO. The factory crossover pipe is a joke and limited the 307 a lot. Olds gained 30 hp on the 307 HO swirl port on the 85 FE3X prototype with ram air, shorty headers and a Y pipe. Why GM could not put dual exhaust on any car from the 80's is beyond me.
6.14 gears according to the thread VTP posted. Plus headers, increased compression, converting lifters to be solid, roller rockers, filled block, and trailered to the track...not to mention all of the smog equipment removed.
94 mph @ 4400 pounds 280 crankshaft HP. And yes the engine was blue printed to NHRA stock 307 specifications. If your interested I can send you the link to the build. Stock cast pistons, stock unported surfaced heads with a valve job, stock crank, stock intake, stock carb, stock oil pan, stock lifters, stock cam lift. NHRA U/SA 307 Olds wagons have run 13.80s.
You clearly didn’t read the thread you linked. Pistons are not stock (.010 over). Carb is not stock as it would have been a computer controlled Quadrajet (same for ignition). Lifters aren’t stock either - he converted them to solid. And it wasn’t blueprinted to stock specs, it was blueprinted to NHRA specs: which allow a substantial increase in compression over stock.
Yet again, NHRA stock does not mean stock.
And com’on...6.14 gears? Trailering it to the track? This is what happens when quarter mile obsessed people try to talk in the real world. That car is useless in the real world and has absolutely no relevance to what the OP is trying to do.
That makes sense on the 6.14 gears, would not surprise me if some use a race duty TH200, maybe even use the lock up converter. A big part of the V6 Challenger performance we own is the gear multiplication. The ZF 8 speed has a 4+ to 1 first gear with a 3.07 rear gears and little gear drop throughout the range. It makes up for the 268 ft/lbs of torque and the 305 hp helps in the higher rpm range. Pretty sure race gas, minimal cooling and undrivable gearing above 30 mph makes it impossible to drive anywhere but the 1/4 mile.
Precision Engine in Houston, TX advertises a 83/84 307 HO putting out 270HP/320TQ as a crate engine. I'm considering with my 1986 doing some porting on the 7A heads and a cam to try and get 240H/290T out of the roller. I appreciate you wanting to keep the 307, as I have the same desire to keep things original yet make it the best it can be.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by Bubba68CS
6.14 gears according to the thread VTP posted. Plus headers, increased compression, converting lifters to be solid, roller rockers, filled block, and trailered to the track...not to mention all of the smog equipment removed.
So yeah, totally stock with just a cam change...
I've got a 307 NHRA stock dyno test coming in the future. And the HP number will be verified as usual as on all Olds tests.
I've got a 307 NHRA stock dyno test coming in the future. And the HP number will be verified as usual as on all Olds tests.
Great. Let us know how the stock computer controlled carb and distributor do...
Oh and make sure to toss it on a smog treadmill. Gotta make sure that emissions equipment is still working.
Oh and maybe actually drive the car to the track instead of trailering it!
Oh and...
Nevermind. It won’t be anything resembling a stock engine so why bother? As has already been established, NHRA stock is not stock. Based on your inability to answer the most simple of questions in the 455 build thread, I doubt you’ll tell us anything useful. You’ll continue claiming it to be “stock” when we already know what they made stock from the factory. So color me uninterested.
Numbers matching 307, bored 0.040", engine had been through a mass rebuilder and had crappy cast pistons way in the hole. I took another set of 5A heads, milled them like 0.055" (max without a bunch of intake fitment challenges), put in bigger valves, blended the bowls, it got the compression up to like 8.8:1 (maybe 9:1, it was over a decade ago now). Added ARH headers and dual exhaust, it stayed on the computer, EGR was functional, I removed the AIR system. I also put in a custom flat tappet Comp Cam from Bill Trovato - we kept it small due to the CCC system and the bone stock bottom end, 100k miles on rod bolts, etc. I wasn't going to turn the numbers block high RPM with those parts in the bottom end. It didn't make much power over 5,000 RPM as a result, which is really where a small engine needs to shine.
It only went low 1.9x 60 foots because the car had a pro-touring style suspension on it. It would surprise a lot of cars to the 330' mark, then it was all over. I don't remember the weight, it had working A/C, T-tops, radio, had nothing really done to lighten it up.
If I was going to do it again, I'd ditch the computer, get the compression up, put in a roller cam, and spin some RPM with it. However, I wouldn't probably do it again, I'd just go bigger cubes to start.
Last edited by 83hurstguy; November 17th, 2020 at 12:45 PM.
Numbers matching 307, bored 0.040", engine had been through a mass rebuilder and had crappy cast pistons way in the hole. I took another set of 5A heads, milled them like 0.055" (max without a bunch of intake fitment challenges), put in bigger valves, blended the bowls, it got the compression up to like 8.8:1 (maybe 9:1, it was over a decade ago now). Added ARH headers and dual exhaust, it stayed on the computer, EGR was functional, I removed the AIR system. I also put in a custom flat tappet Comp Cam from Bill Trovato - we kept it small due to the CCC system and the bone stock bottom end, 100k miles on rod bolts, etc. I wasn't going to turn the numbers block high RPM with those parts in the bottom end. It didn't make much power over 5,000 RPM as a result, which is really where a small engine needs to shine.
It only went low 1.9x 60 foots because the car had a pro-touring style suspension on it. It would surprise a lot of cars to the 330' mark, then it was all over. I don't remember the weight, it had working A/C, T-tops, radio, had nothing really done to lighten it up.
If I was going to do it again, I'd ditch the computer, get the compression up, put in a roller cam, and spin some RPM with it. However, I wouldn't probably do it again, I'd just go bigger cubes to start.
Great looking car! I add a 1972 350 highly worked over in mine 87 with Lighting Rods. Huge difference, check out my modifications to my car. To keep the engine from twisting the whole car.
Numbers matching 307, bored 0.040", engine had been through a mass rebuilder and had crappy cast pistons way in the hole. I took another set of 5A heads, milled them like 0.055" (max without a bunch of intake fitment challenges), put in bigger valves, blended the bowls, it got the compression up to like 8.8:1 (maybe 9:1, it was over a decade ago now). Added ARH headers and dual exhaust, it stayed on the computer, EGR was functional, I removed the AIR system. I also put in a custom flat tappet Comp Cam from Bill Trovato - we kept it small due to the CCC system and the bone stock bottom end, 100k miles on rod bolts, etc. I wasn't going to turn the numbers block high RPM with those parts in the bottom end. It didn't make much power over 5,000 RPM as a result, which is really where a small engine needs to shine.
It only went low 1.9x 60 foots because the car had a pro-touring style suspension on it. It would surprise a lot of cars to the 330' mark, then it was all over. I don't remember the weight, it had working A/C, T-tops, radio, had nothing really done to lighten it up.
If I was going to do it again, I'd ditch the computer, get the compression up, put in a roller cam, and spin some RPM with it. However, I wouldn't probably do it again, I'd just go bigger cubes to start.
Luke did nice work on this build, turned it from a dud to a stud.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by Bubba68CS
Great. Let us know how the stock computer controlled carb and distributor do...
Oh and make sure to toss it on a smog treadmill. Gotta make sure that emissions equipment is still working.
Oh and maybe actually drive the car to the track instead of trailering it!
Oh and...
Nevermind. It won’t be anything resembling a stock engine so why bother? As has already been established, NHRA stock is not stock. Based on your inability to answer the most simple of questions in the 455 build thread, I doubt you’ll tell us anything useful. You’ll continue claiming it to be “stock” when we already know what they made stock from the factory. So color me uninterested.
Bubba
Some people might be able to utilize information I post, you, well probably not so much, but maybe you could learn, my machining, verified testing, and racing has been quite successful. Some might enjoy a NHRA legal 307 verified dyno test.
Some people might be able to utilize information I post, you, well probably not so much, but maybe you could learn, my machining, verified testing, and racing has been quite successful. Some might enjoy a NHRA legal 307 verified dyno test.
I'm sure people could learn, if only you would answer the simplest of questions rather than ducking and dodging them over and over and over again.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by Bubba68CS
I'm sure people could learn, if only you would answer the simplest of questions rather than ducking and dodging them over and over and over again.
But you don't...
Bubba
Once again I'am getting pulled back into some Oldsmobile work, porting a set of Edelbrock heads, seeing your extreme interest in my verified flow numbers I'd be happy to post them as soon as I get them done. Any other information you would like, be sure to clearly state.
September 27th, 2020, 08:29 PM
