Installing fan shroud in a '70 S......help needed!
#1
Installing fan shroud in a '70 S......help needed!
Ok so I'm trying to install a fan shroud in my '70 S and I'm running into a couple issues. The car did not have a shroud at all originally and as a result it get's up around 210-225 in very short order if you have to sit in traffic. It's been like this for 15 years and this is the year it's gettin fixed haha!! I have a 402995 shroud and AC top plate.......and upon test installing the fan is WAYY too far forward in the shroud. At first I thought a shorter fan spacer would fix it.........but the fan is already less than an inch from the ps pump.........and it's gotta go back AT LEAST that far....if not more I know that factory AC cars used a clutch fan.......would one of these fit the shroud as intended without spacers? Is it smaller in diameter? I'm open for any suggestions at all at this point guys. Here's a couple pics that may help Also what on earth is supposed to hold the shroud at the bottom?
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IMG_1950_zpsd8ffe045.jpg
IMG_1951_zpsd1263889.jpg
#2
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
AC and those with HD cooling had different pulleys and water pump.
The stock fan for those cars was the 6 blade with fan clutch, and the fans were 19" which fits the inside of the shroud quite easily.
The bottom of the shroud needs 2 metal supports that get tack welded to the frame. I have a diagram of how it fits on my other computer I can post for you later?
IMO, if you have that serious a problem with temps, your timing is most likely out of whack.
The stock fan for those cars was the 6 blade with fan clutch, and the fans were 19" which fits the inside of the shroud quite easily.
The bottom of the shroud needs 2 metal supports that get tack welded to the frame. I have a diagram of how it fits on my other computer I can post for you later?
IMO, if you have that serious a problem with temps, your timing is most likely out of whack.
#3
The assembly manual should have illustrations of how the shroud mounts as well as the configuration of WP, fan, fan clutch, pulleys, etc. used.
Is your Thermal Vacuum Switch hooked up?
It's supposed to send full vacuum to the distributor if overheating is imminent. It's a tall slim 3-hose item mounted in the water passage at the front of the intake. Nipples marked C, D, MT for Carb, Distributor, Manifold Tap. All this is explained in the Chassis Service Manual which you should also have or have access to thru the FREE site/ experience WildAboutCars.com. Seek and ye shall find.
and, yes, your timing should be as far advanced as you can get it w/o detonation. If you have to retard the timing, one easy solution is to buy higher octane fuel instead.
Is your Thermal Vacuum Switch hooked up?
It's supposed to send full vacuum to the distributor if overheating is imminent. It's a tall slim 3-hose item mounted in the water passage at the front of the intake. Nipples marked C, D, MT for Carb, Distributor, Manifold Tap. All this is explained in the Chassis Service Manual which you should also have or have access to thru the FREE site/ experience WildAboutCars.com. Seek and ye shall find.
and, yes, your timing should be as far advanced as you can get it w/o detonation. If you have to retard the timing, one easy solution is to buy higher octane fuel instead.
#4
Does the clutch fan sit farther back than the fixed fan/big spacer setup I have now? Are the 4 and 6 blade fans the same diameter? I guess the real issue I'm having is for the fan to sit where it's supposed to it needs to fit on the same plane as the ps pulley nut......which obviously cant happen with my existing fan As far as the timing, this issue has been occurring through several different distributors and timing settings with no change. A long as you don't have to sit stopped the motor runs great....and doesn't get above 185 ish.
Last edited by DJS70cutlass; June 8th, 2014 at 09:48 AM.
#6
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
The 4 and 6 blade fans are both 19" IIRC. The shroud gets shims at the top as required to make sure the fan is properly centered. Let's see a pic if your rad top plate. You may need to change it for installation of the shroud.
Does your car still have it's TVS? If yes, check to see that it's hooked up right. I'd do that before trying different octane fuel.
Does your car still have it's TVS? If yes, check to see that it's hooked up right. I'd do that before trying different octane fuel.
#7
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Ok, I'm on my other puter. Here's the diagram that shows how the fan shroud installs.
The tabs at the bottom can be purchased at aftermarket vendors. I bought mine from In Line Tube, but there are others as well.
Motor City Supercars - ILT
The tabs at the bottom can be purchased at aftermarket vendors. I bought mine from In Line Tube, but there are others as well.
Motor City Supercars - ILT
#8
easy things first ... if you do not have the proper clutch fan get a proper one /shorter spacer... if no help, chk that the radiator is circulating
90 % of cooling issues is a clogged rad. also there is an 18 in clutch fan if back-spacing is an issue or even the six banger 17.5 reg fan. the 71 72 fan shrouds are larger if your existing fan is 19.5 + also dif water pump lengths ect...
90 % of cooling issues is a clogged rad. also there is an 18 in clutch fan if back-spacing is an issue or even the six banger 17.5 reg fan. the 71 72 fan shrouds are larger if your existing fan is 19.5 + also dif water pump lengths ect...
Last edited by lunaboy; June 8th, 2014 at 10:17 AM.
#9
The 4 and 6 blade fans are both 19" IIRC. The shroud gets shims at the top as required to make sure the fan is properly centered. Let's see a pic if your rad top plate. You may need to change it for installation of the shroud.
Does your car still have it's TVS? If yes, check to see that it's hooked up right. I'd do that before trying different octane fuel.
Does your car still have it's TVS? If yes, check to see that it's hooked up right. I'd do that before trying different octane fuel.
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#10
easy things first ... if you do not have the proper clutch fan get a proper one /shorter spacer... if no help, chk that the radiator is circulating
90 % of cooling issues is a clogged rad. also there is an 18 in clutch fan if back-spacing is an issue or even the six banger 17.5 reg fan. the 71 72 fan shrouds are larger if your existing fan is 19.5 + also dif water pump lengths ect...
90 % of cooling issues is a clogged rad. also there is an 18 in clutch fan if back-spacing is an issue or even the six banger 17.5 reg fan. the 71 72 fan shrouds are larger if your existing fan is 19.5 + also dif water pump lengths ect...
#11
Ok with that description my car definitely doesn't have that
#13
#14
A few observations and comments...If your car originally came with a 4 blade fan, AND it's the right fan + spacer with a new rad it should be cooling fine. You need to blow the hot air out, I see your splash shields are worn or missing. I also notice you are missing the side flaps on your top plate, and I can't tell if the baffle below the core support is there. All of these things hurt cooling a bit. If you are going to use a shroud, you should get a clutch multi blade fan. Like I think Allen said, there could or will be pulley issues also. Is there a thermostat in the car now? What's the temp of it? If there is no stat, then the coolant won't stay in the rad long enough to cool. Water Wetter is good for maybe 10 degrees. All things to think about.
#15
A few observations and comments...If your car originally came with a 4 blade fan, AND it's the right fan + spacer with a new rad it should be cooling fine. You need to blow the hot air out, I see your splash shields are worn or missing. I also notice you are missing the side flaps on your top plate, and I can't tell if the baffle below the core support is there. All of these things hurt cooling a bit. If you are going to use a shroud, you should get a clutch multi blade fan. Like I think Allen said, there could or will be pulley issues also. Is there a thermostat in the car now? What's the temp of it? If there is no stat, then the coolant won't stay in the rad long enough to cool. Water Wetter is good for maybe 10 degrees. All things to think about.
#16
Ok...right..the inner fender splash shields. No shields can actually hurt cooling in the engine compartment...moving, stopped or slow I'm not sure. No...the fan on your car would have been a 4 blade no shroud fan. 160 temp thermostat might actually be hurting your cooling. I would go back up to at least 180. I've actually heard more is better. When the cap is off and the car is at operating temp, you should see the coolant moving. Check for a spring in the lower rad hose by squeezing it. It might be collapsing if it's gone. Check the cap to be sure it's the right pressure...15? Finally, the water pump looks like it maybe was changed. Maybe an AC pump on a non-AC car? You kind of have to check everything to see what's happening. Does your heater work really well?
#17
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Well, the rad is new and it's a 4 core so it should be flowing well unless the water pump isn't doing its job. The one I see in your pic is designed for a 2 row radiator so I'm thinking that's part of your problem. If you do change the water pump, you will need a new pulley guaranteed. Can't remember the code off the top of my head but I think something like KK?
I'm inclined to think that since your car doesn't have a TVS, your timing is too far retarded at idle and that's causing your problem. Try advancing your timing overall until it hurts your performance. Either that or buy a TVS and install it. They're reproduced and not hard to find.
As mentioned by mrolds69, get the required cooling masticated rubber parts installed. That makes a world of difference channelling the air. If you need a reference, look up the cooling section in the 70 Cutlass Assembly Manual. It will also guide you on the correct pulleys needed for the changes you have planned.
re: T stat? There should be a marking on the T stat that says "front". If you installed the T stat backwards (not upside down) it can also impede the flow of coolant through it.
I'm inclined to think that since your car doesn't have a TVS, your timing is too far retarded at idle and that's causing your problem. Try advancing your timing overall until it hurts your performance. Either that or buy a TVS and install it. They're reproduced and not hard to find.
As mentioned by mrolds69, get the required cooling masticated rubber parts installed. That makes a world of difference channelling the air. If you need a reference, look up the cooling section in the 70 Cutlass Assembly Manual. It will also guide you on the correct pulleys needed for the changes you have planned.
re: T stat? There should be a marking on the T stat that says "front". If you installed the T stat backwards (not upside down) it can also impede the flow of coolant through it.
#18
Ok...right..the inner fender splash shields. No shields can actually hurt cooling in the engine compartment...moving, stopped or slow I'm not sure. No...the fan on your car would have been a 4 blade no shroud fan. 160 temp thermostat might actually be hurting your cooling. I would go back up to at least 180. I've actually heard more is better. When the cap is off and the car is at operating temp, you should see the coolant moving. Check for a spring in the lower rad hose by squeezing it. It might be collapsing if it's gone. Check the cap to be sure it's the right pressure...15? Finally, the water pump looks like it maybe was changed. Maybe an AC pump on a non-AC car? You kind of have to check everything to see what's happening. Does your heater work really well?
#19
Well, the rad is new and it's a 4 core so it should be flowing well unless the water pump isn't doing its job. The one I see in your pic is designed for a 2 row radiator so I'm thinking that's part of your problem. If you do change the water pump, you will need a new pulley guaranteed. Can't remember the code off the top of my head but I think something like KK?
I'm inclined to think that since your car doesn't have a TVS, your timing is too far retarded at idle and that's causing your problem. Try advancing your timing overall until it hurts your performance. Either that or buy a TVS and install it. They're reproduced and not hard to find.
As mentioned by mrolds69, get the required cooling masticated rubber parts installed. That makes a world of difference channelling the air. If you need a reference, look up the cooling section in the 70 Cutlass Assembly Manual. It will also guide you on the correct pulleys needed for the changes you have planned.
re: T stat? There should be a marking on the T stat that says "front". If you installed the T stat backwards (not upside down) it can also impede the flow of coolant through it.
I'm inclined to think that since your car doesn't have a TVS, your timing is too far retarded at idle and that's causing your problem. Try advancing your timing overall until it hurts your performance. Either that or buy a TVS and install it. They're reproduced and not hard to find.
As mentioned by mrolds69, get the required cooling masticated rubber parts installed. That makes a world of difference channelling the air. If you need a reference, look up the cooling section in the 70 Cutlass Assembly Manual. It will also guide you on the correct pulleys needed for the changes you have planned.
re: T stat? There should be a marking on the T stat that says "front". If you installed the T stat backwards (not upside down) it can also impede the flow of coolant through it.
#20
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
There are different pumps for different applications. Usually the AC cars had a higher capacity water pump and/or HD cooling. Note the profile of the water pump and lengths in this thread at Oldsmobility.com
Yes, I can tell just by looking at your water pump pulley that it's a lower flow for a 2 core. That's also one of the reasons your car has a spacer to extend the 4 blade fan closer to the rad and pull more air through there. An HD pump will have a longer snout compared to the one you have on there. The pulley for the HD pump is a bell flared unit that sweeps back over the WP snout and is designed to work with a fan clutch. Depending on the depth of the bell (hence the codes of the pulley) it will affect how your belts line up.
Check the Cutlass Assembly Manual for the pump pulley code you need. There are 3 different length HD water pumps. Have a look at this thread. It will help you understand what you're getting into.
Yes, I can tell just by looking at your water pump pulley that it's a lower flow for a 2 core. That's also one of the reasons your car has a spacer to extend the 4 blade fan closer to the rad and pull more air through there. An HD pump will have a longer snout compared to the one you have on there. The pulley for the HD pump is a bell flared unit that sweeps back over the WP snout and is designed to work with a fan clutch. Depending on the depth of the bell (hence the codes of the pulley) it will affect how your belts line up.
Check the Cutlass Assembly Manual for the pump pulley code you need. There are 3 different length HD water pumps. Have a look at this thread. It will help you understand what you're getting into.
#21
Sorry, guys, but AAAARRRRRRRRGGHH, No!
No. Cooling has nothing to do with the amount of time that the water spends in the radiator. This has been thoroughly debunked on this board.
The reason why you will get better cooling with a thermostat than without one is that the restriction provided by the thermostat produces a high pressure condition inside the block (up to about 40psi), which provides for better contact between the coolant and the block and heads, reducing points of micro vaporization, and picking up heat more effectively.
No. That doesn't even make sense. It is true that in an engine with an inadequate cooling system, using a lower-temperature thermostat won't help (because that's not the problem in the first place), but it will not hurt your cooling either.
Could you explain that? Where have you heard it? Why is it better? In what way is it better?
No. Collapse of the lower hose because of pump suction occurs at high engine speeds, and usually causes overheating on the highway.
His problem is overheating at idle, when the water pump NEVER collapses the lower hose.
No. Whichever pump you use, it will not reduce the cooling on a non-A/C car.
An A/C pump will have a different length shaft, though, so if that were the problem, he'd be talking about his pulleys not lining up.
No. Why would a pump that was adequate for his engine's cooling when it was built suddenly become inadequate when he changed the radiator?
No. TVS will advance the timing when hot, by switching to manifold vacuum from ported vacuum, at something like 220°F. If his cooling system is adequate, his engine should almost never get that hot anyway, so it should never even have a chance to kick in.
You may argue that IF he is running ported vacuum, the TVS would help, but you don't know whether he is running ported or manifold vacuum, so this is really a red herring.
No. Factory thermostats had that marking, but as far as I know there are no aftermarket thermostats designed with the factory directed-flow feature.
He will spend a lot of time looking for a stamped word that was never there.
This thread is beginning to turn into a "worst of the internet" hail of irrelevant or misleading information.
Give the guy a break, and think about this stuff before pressing the Post button. He's having a hard enough time already.
His problem seems almost definitely to involve inadequate air flow at low engine and car speeds, and therefore his idea of adding a shroud and a larger clutch fan is a good one.
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
In all likelihood, the root of this problem is in his decision to go with a four-core radiator when he replaced his 2-core: The four-core is at least twice as thick, which means that the air must travel much farther through narrow rows of tiny fins, encountering much more resistance. The thinner radiator was easier to pull air through, so all GM needed was a cheap stationary fan with no shroud to do the job, but the thicker radiators required much more "suction" to pull enough air through them, so GM had to design a more effective fan system, and then had to design a clutch for it to quiet it down at those times when it wasn't needed.
- Eric
The reason why you will get better cooling with a thermostat than without one is that the restriction provided by the thermostat produces a high pressure condition inside the block (up to about 40psi), which provides for better contact between the coolant and the block and heads, reducing points of micro vaporization, and picking up heat more effectively.
No. That doesn't even make sense. It is true that in an engine with an inadequate cooling system, using a lower-temperature thermostat won't help (because that's not the problem in the first place), but it will not hurt your cooling either.
His problem is overheating at idle, when the water pump NEVER collapses the lower hose.
No. Whichever pump you use, it will not reduce the cooling on a non-A/C car.
An A/C pump will have a different length shaft, though, so if that were the problem, he'd be talking about his pulleys not lining up.
You may argue that IF he is running ported vacuum, the TVS would help, but you don't know whether he is running ported or manifold vacuum, so this is really a red herring.
He will spend a lot of time looking for a stamped word that was never there.
This thread is beginning to turn into a "worst of the internet" hail of irrelevant or misleading information.
Give the guy a break, and think about this stuff before pressing the Post button. He's having a hard enough time already.
His problem seems almost definitely to involve inadequate air flow at low engine and car speeds, and therefore his idea of adding a shroud and a larger clutch fan is a good one.
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
In all likelihood, the root of this problem is in his decision to go with a four-core radiator when he replaced his 2-core: The four-core is at least twice as thick, which means that the air must travel much farther through narrow rows of tiny fins, encountering much more resistance. The thinner radiator was easier to pull air through, so all GM needed was a cheap stationary fan with no shroud to do the job, but the thicker radiators required much more "suction" to pull enough air through them, so GM had to design a more effective fan system, and then had to design a clutch for it to quiet it down at those times when it wasn't needed.
- Eric
#22
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
In all likelihood, the root of this problem is in his decision to go with a four-core radiator when he replaced his 2-core: The four-core is at least twice as thick, which means that the air must travel much farther through narrow rows of tiny fins, encountering much more resistance. The thinner radiator was easier to pull air through, so all GM needed was a cheap stationary fan with no shroud to do the job, but the thicker radiators required much more "suction" to pull enough air through them, so GM had to design a more effective fan system, and then had to design a clutch for it to quiet it down at those times when it wasn't needed.
No. TVS will advance the timing when hot, by switching to manifold vacuum from ported vacuum, at something like 220°F. If his cooling system is adequate, his engine should almost never get that hot anyway, so it should never even have a chance to kick in.
You may argue that IF he is running ported vacuum, the TVS would help, but you don't know whether he is running ported or manifold vacuum, so this is really a red herring.
You may argue that IF he is running ported vacuum, the TVS would help, but you don't know whether he is running ported or manifold vacuum, so this is really a red herring.
His problem seems almost definitely to involve inadequate air flow at low engine and car speeds, and therefore his idea of adding a shroud and a larger clutch fan is a good one.
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
I hate to argue with you, but I have aftermarket gates T stat that says "front' on it. Pulled it out of my 72 6 years ago and I know for a fact it's not original. Want a picture?
#23
I've got a 1970 442 that I used as a daily driver through the 1990's. When I moved to Medford where there's a lot of high 90's and some low 100's in the summer I found it would overheat at traffic lights when I was downtown. I replaced the 3 row with a 4 row radiator and added a shroud. I already had a 6 blade clutch fan on the engine. The larger radiator and shroud fixed my problem. I think the others are on the right track saying you need to change whatever is needed in the way of pulleys to install a clutch fan and still have your belts line up. Then install the shroud you've already purchased.
My 2 cents.....
John
My 2 cents.....
John
#24
His problem seems almost definitely to involve inadequate air flow at low engine and car speeds, and therefore his idea of adding a shroud and a larger clutch fan is a good one.
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
In all likelihood, the root of this problem is in his decision to go with a four-core radiator when he replaced his 2-core: The four-core is at least twice as thick, which means that the air must travel much farther through narrow rows of tiny fins, encountering much more resistance. The thinner radiator was easier to pull air through, so all GM needed was a cheap stationary fan with no shroud to do the job, but the thicker radiators required much more "suction" to pull enough air through them, so GM had to design a more effective fan system, and then had to design a clutch for it to quiet it down at those times when it wasn't needed.
- Eric
In order to do so, he will have to transfer the entire water pump, pulley, and belt system from an A/C or heavy-duty cooling car, because, as he has discovered, just adding one part will cause alignment problems.
In all likelihood, the root of this problem is in his decision to go with a four-core radiator when he replaced his 2-core: The four-core is at least twice as thick, which means that the air must travel much farther through narrow rows of tiny fins, encountering much more resistance. The thinner radiator was easier to pull air through, so all GM needed was a cheap stationary fan with no shroud to do the job, but the thicker radiators required much more "suction" to pull enough air through them, so GM had to design a more effective fan system, and then had to design a clutch for it to quiet it down at those times when it wasn't needed.
- Eric
http://www.opgi.com/cutlass/1970/coo...pumps/C241418/
Also previous to the new four row radiator I had been running BeCool aluminum rad....for more than a decade........but it started leaking so it had to go. The overheating when stopped issue was more or less the same with the BeCool and the stock two row. Where would you recommend I get the fan clutch and fan if you don't mind me asking?
#25
Yes Eric that's exactly my problem.......insufficient airflow at slow vehicle speeds. So in order to run the shroud I'll need an AC water pump, pulley and belts? I have an assembly manual and it looks like I need a "KF" pulley pn 399404. That pulley seems to be a three groove one......so is this the pulley I need?
http://www.opgi.com/cutlass/1970/coo...pumps/C241418/
Also previous to the new four row radiator I had been running BeCool aluminum rad....for more than a decade........but it started leaking so it had to go. The overheating when stopped issue was more or less the same with the BeCool and the stock two row. Where would you recommend I get the fan clutch and fan if you don't mind me asking?
http://www.opgi.com/cutlass/1970/coo...pumps/C241418/
Also previous to the new four row radiator I had been running BeCool aluminum rad....for more than a decade........but it started leaking so it had to go. The overheating when stopped issue was more or less the same with the BeCool and the stock two row. Where would you recommend I get the fan clutch and fan if you don't mind me asking?
Several members here have extra used parts. I've got the pulley but am not sure I have an extra fan. I know Scott (oldspackrat) in much closer to you than I am. You might see if he has both to save on shipping.
John
#26
Hey, I was just tossing out ideas, nothing that would cost any $ to do, but worth checking IMHO. It's true what Eric says, and that makes sense to me now, that the thicker rad might actually be a contributing factor. I was just trying to help, and I'm not too excited about being mentioned as a candidate for the "Hall of Morons". So...I guess these guys with far more knowledge than I can help you out. Different people have different ideas. Personally...I wouldn't do anything w/o checking the stat 1st for worthiness and temp, but...hey...that's the way I do stuff. Sorry to give bad advice, good luck with the prob. Let us know what works.
#27
Not exactly. I'm saying that too much coolant flow doesn't matter.
Too little would be bad.
Please do. I would be very interested in knowing any flow specifics on any of these pumps.
I agree - because of the shaft length and need for proper pulley alignment.
I just don't want to send him chasing after a TVS unit when he may already have the distributor on ported vacuum.
While it is not false to say that the TVS changes the timing, I think it is important to describe how it does, so that he (and others) can use that information to properly analyse their cooling problems.
Of course we were.
That's not arguing, that's providing useful information.
Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing a photo.
Even the Mr. Gasket-branded Robertshaw (from NAPA) that I installed today had no such markings.
Actually, I believe that you need a fan, clutch, shroud, water pump, water pump pulley, crank pulley, and possibly a ower steering pump pulley, and the brackets to relocate your alternator to the other side (not sure about that one)... and belts.
I am interested in whether it overheated in traffic with the original two-core (at least before it spring a leak, got blocked up, or whatever...).
I'd get all of that stuff from John (above) or Scott, if they've got it, or, perhaps better (because you can see where everything goes), at a local junkyard, if you can find one with an old Olds in it.
- Eric
Too little would be bad.
While it is not false to say that the TVS changes the timing, I think it is important to describe how it does, so that he (and others) can use that information to properly analyse their cooling problems.
Of course we were.
Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing a photo.
Even the Mr. Gasket-branded Robertshaw (from NAPA) that I installed today had no such markings.
- Eric
Last edited by MDchanic; June 8th, 2014 at 08:25 PM.
#28
There was just a sudden blizzard of information and suggestions, many of which clearly didn't apply to the questions at hand, and I thought the OP (and any future readers) could be easily confused.
Also, to use Joe's term, I believe it is very important in internet postings, which may (or may not) be around and searchable for many years, to combat Truth Decay. Seemingly innocuous inaccuracies can develop lives of their own, and seem to spread much faster than accurate facts.
I'm sorry that my post offended you.
- Eric
#30
That is all a different discussion, though, other than to say that, all other things being equal, running a cooler thermostat will not in any way improve the functioning of a poorly functioning cooling system, although some seem to believe that it will.
- Eric
#31
Actually, I believe that you need a fan, clutch, shroud, water pump, water pump pulley, crank pulley, and possibly a ower steering pump pulley, and the brackets to relocate your alternator to the other side (not sure about that one)... and belts.
I am interested in whether it overheated in traffic with the original two-core (at least before it spring a leak, got blocked up, or whatever...).
I am interested in whether it overheated in traffic with the original two-core (at least before it spring a leak, got blocked up, or whatever...).
#32
DJS70cutlass have you driven the car with the shroud on it even thought the fan is too far inside? Did the shroud make any difference in the temp? I know having the fan placed at the right place pulls more air, I was just wondering if the shroud helped any with the fan in the wrong location.
Would 40 yrs of calcium/lime deposits inside the engine make it run hot at an idle? I'm assuming this is a stock engine other than the intake.
Would 40 yrs of calcium/lime deposits inside the engine make it run hot at an idle? I'm assuming this is a stock engine other than the intake.
#33
DJS70cutlass have you driven the car with the shroud on it even thought the fan is too far inside? Did the shroud make any difference in the temp? I know having the fan placed at the right place pulls more air, I was just wondering if the shroud helped any with the fan in the wrong location.
Would 40 yrs of calcium/lime deposits inside the engine make it run hot at an idle? I'm assuming this is a stock engine other than the intake.
Would 40 yrs of calcium/lime deposits inside the engine make it run hot at an idle? I'm assuming this is a stock engine other than the intake.
#34
before changing pullies and water pump, maybe get the larger 71 72 fan shroud and I have a clutch fan for that. I also have a small dia toro clutch fan that might fit your existing 70 fan shroud without hitting. if you want to do the complete change -over. I have plenty of 19 in 66-70 fans and stock pullies.
#35
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
#36
And that is all true. In general, 195° is probably the best temperature for most engines most of the time (though I run a 180° thermostat in mine to reduce the likelihood of detonation).
That is all a different discussion, though, other than to say that, all other things being equal, running a cooler thermostat will not in any way improve the functioning of a poorly functioning cooling system, although some seem to believe that it will.
- Eric
That is all a different discussion, though, other than to say that, all other things being equal, running a cooler thermostat will not in any way improve the functioning of a poorly functioning cooling system, although some seem to believe that it will.
- Eric
#37
#38
In my own case, I chose to go down to 180° because of my own paranoia about running a 10.25:1 engine on modern gas. I use an effective octane booster, but even so, I've had an engine that self-destructed because of detonation (which occurred during its time with the previous owner, of course), so I'm unusually wary.
- Eric
#39
DGS70CUTLASS: I have looked your pictures, and have read the thread. Your pulleys, and water is not your problem. The problem is that the four blade fan is in wrong position for the fan shroud. You need a 68 to 70 clutch fan blade and clutch. The clutch puts the fan blade in a different location, therefore, eliminating any issues with the fan touching the fan shroud.
http://www.opgi.com/cutlass/1970/coo.../fans/C980305/
#40
That is correct because the clutch puts the fan blade in the entrance of the fan shroud. Also, I would not use the fan blade you have pictured as the blade needs to be curved to clear your shroud.
Here look at this one. You can buy a new Hayden clutch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1970-19...cd6c91&vxp=mtr
Further, the fan blade will not hit the power steering shaft.
I may have an extra fan blade if you need one and clutch, but I would need to take a look.
Here look at this one. You can buy a new Hayden clutch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1970-19...cd6c91&vxp=mtr
Further, the fan blade will not hit the power steering shaft.
I may have an extra fan blade if you need one and clutch, but I would need to take a look.