CMitchum

I want to upgrade (modernize) the ignition system on my 65 Delta (original 425). I've taken a look at MSD's "ready to Run" Distrib and MSD 6. What I would rather have is a distrib that gets rid of the mechanical and vacuum advance, and the points.

Any ideas or preferences?

InfoJunkie

These two items are there for a reason. Ability to start and then power to move the vehicle. Some race distributors don't have either but they are computer controled from a box. As for the point issue a Pertronix or other brand conversion kit will get rid of them.

compedgemarine

the vacume adv. you can live without. I dont use mine but I modify the weights and springs to get what I want for timing. my race motors ran a locked distributor with no advance but you need a lot of motor that spends its life up in the rpm for that to work well. not recommended for the street. as was INFO said any other setup requires a computer to control everything and that is not worth the effort if you are not running EFI. I use the Pertronix in most so I can keep the stock looking distributors and they work great.

cutlassefi

How about a Pertronix or a Mallory conversion kit and an Accel 300+ box. The box is digital, has a rev limiter, puts out more than an MSD 6AL and is about the size of 2 packs of cigarettes.

MDchanic

Why do you want to get rid of the mechanical and vacuum advance?

- Eric

captjim

I respectfully disagree, there is no reason to not run vacuum advance on a street car. Better performance and mileage.

stan 65 cutlass

just stick in an electronic distributor from the 70's, easy

71 Cutlass

Unfortunately there is a good reason...my CR is so high I cannot run vac.adv. on my street driven car and 93 octane or it's "milk bottle" rattling all day long. Of course I'm at fault for gambling on the CR on today's gas.

MDchanic

A properly calibrated vacuum advance should not cause pinging, and removal of a vacuum advance is not a cure for bad gas.

- Eric

Lalo442

I run a pertronix with a summit racing CD ignition runs flawless just remember to tap off an un-resistor feed voltage to supply the ignition ... the new Pertronix III is a stand alone system and has a built in rev limiter

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor3/default.aspx

71 Cutlass

Flat out wrong. Disconnecting the vac adv. improves the detonation issue 90 percent. I know, I drive the car.

MDchanic

Okay. Not arguing with your experience, but drivability might improve even more with a lower degree of vacuum advance that drops out with a lesser decline in vacuum.

Vacuum advance exists because of physical principles that do not change.
Some engines tolerate different amounts of advance differently, but in an American V8 with street tuning, some degree of vacuum advance should make the car run better.

If you're happy with your tune, I have no interest in trying to get you to change, but most people with most engines will see a benefit from some vacuum advance, including, most likely, this guy.

- Eric

chequenman

X's 2

CMitchum

Thanks for the replies/opinions. I seemed to have sparked (no pun) a good debate!

But let me clarify the intent of my post,

I want to get rid of the centrifugal weight system for advancing the timing and the old style breaker points. Springs stretch and wear, fiddling with stop bushings. In short the whole 1960's ignition technology is a PITA. (to me) I'd actually prefer a completely modern (distributor-less) ignition system from the standpoint of reliability and performance. However, I'd like it to LOOK more stock, hence the desire for an upgraded/updated distributor.

@infojunkie: I think your statement would be more accurate if you simply said advance is there for a reason. We all know the basics of ignition timing. My 03 Corvette does just fine starting and making power with completely computer controlled ignition timing. That is to say it has no mechanical or vacuum advance technology comparable to my Olds.

MDchanic

I'm sure there is a computer controlled system that is practical for street use, but I'll leave that to others who know more about modern replacements.

I will leave you with the thought of Cost vs Benefit:
It will probably be fairly expensive to replace your reliable mechanical system with a similarly reliable electronic system, and the practical gain, aside from your peace of mind (which is important), will be minimal.

If you do it, though I'd love to hear the details, for future reference.

- Eric

firefrost gold

ALL THAT jsut to tell us you have a vett too?

cutlassefi

If you want modern ignition control try this. This ICM coupled with a breakerless triggering will give you what you want. Then just lock the vacuum and centrifigul advances and you're good to go.

http://www.accel-dfi.com/ProductDeta...minselection=2

chequenman

X's 2


Now go and install Pertronix II for a $100.00 and move on in a trouble free and pointless ignition!!

InfoJunkie

@CMITCHUMNot to start an argument but I have noticed that there are a lot of questions asked about engine basics that we should all know if we've been doing it for a while. There are people who don't know the basics so an explanation helps them out a bit. If the second part of the statement is false please let me know how so that I may correct my info.

Lalo442

I agree mine works great I don't think I have touched the distributor or timing in years since it was installed ....
The Pertronix III is a stand alone system with rev limiter and Capacative multi spark performance without the box for a few more bucks . I have the Old original pertronix but if it ever fails I am upgrading just for the hell of it ,,,,:-)

CMitchum

Thanks a lot guys. Did some research from your suggestions and I'm going to go with the Pertronix III kit and one of their black canister coils. So I will have the best of both worlds. Totally stock look and a low maintenance, updated system.

Side note: I fooled around hopping up cars as a teenager in the late 70s. Then came a long gap (life intruded) and I got back into it about a year ago. So I am no expert mechanic (technician as they call them today); just preparing you for some questions that might make you wonder "Where's this guy been the last 20 years?".

jag1886

Now you got the right idea.

HWYSTR455

Just for future reference, if anyone is interested, the Accel 375+ is an ignition control box that allows you to dial in the ignition curve, has map input to simulate vacuum advance, and has windows switches and retard functions (boost). Simply lock out your distributor and start plugging in your curve. It's not as expensive as the DFi stuff, $265.00, which is about what a Digital 6+ costs.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-49375/


As an example, you lock the distributor, and set your max advance, like say 48*, then tighten it down. Then you 'plot' your curve by amount of retard @ RPM, and think it goes in 500 RPM increments.

.

firefrost gold

are you saying there's another ignition out there other than msd . Dam that nascar .