KRICHEN922

Need help and advice on this. My father was driving the car to his school for a look see on the car by a top auto mechanic. On the way, the problems stated above happened, or became noticable at least. The mechanic said it is too much for his kids to have repaired and he didn't have the right tools for it either. My parents want me to sell the car. Thats not going to happen if I can help it.

It is a targetmaster replacement diesel. Walkthroughs on how to fix these problems would be nice, but I know probably not possible.

Help? Advice? mental breakdown here.

Nilsson

Take your parents advice and get rid of it. Contrary to popular beliefs parents are pretty smart.

Good luck

KRICHEN922

Not happening. I will do the repairs myself. Or have a friend help. I will only have to pay for parts. I just need to know how to do it. Junkyard cars have come back from worse than this and this car is in damned good shape. Cept for the engine and interior... (yeaaahh)

Red Delta

Get a different engine and save a lot of heartache?

agtw31

junk it,and find something else.

or put a 350 gas engine in it.

whatever you do,dont go back to your "top" mechanic until he buys tools.

captjim

Good advice, IMO. Find a running 350 or 403, you can get a few $ for the diesel block. Those diesel engines were terrible, nothing but trouble.

joe_padavano

But... but...

No one has yet suggested that selling the diesel block to a racer, which will more than cover the cost of a 350 gas engine.

Eightupman

He keeps on saying "Targetmaster replacement diesel" in nearly every post and IIRC he stated it is NOT the same as the Olds diesel. If not the same, he won't be able to sell the block.

Pics will be needed.

John

J-(Chicago)

No help here, sorry.
Junk that target disaster.

380 Racer

Joe, just wondering..........how much do you think a D/DX block is worth to a racer?

rocketraider

The Targetmaster series of replacement engines was a generic name for GM's drivetrain rebuilding program- back when they would supply remanufactured engines other than Chevrolet.

Most GM Diesel passenger cars and light trucks used the Olds 350/5.7l Diesel, so a Targetmaster Diesel replacement for those applications will be an Olds Diesel. Now as to what was done when it was installed in the car, all bets are off. I just hope somebody didn't stuff one of those miserable-*** 260 Diesels in there. That's the only Olds-design engine worse than a gasoline 260.

Now- Krichen's Diesel has done what they were notorious for doing. It's not surprising that a modern high school or community college auto tech class doesn't have the special Olds Diesel tools; I'd put money on most dealers not even having them now.

Krichen, if you plan to keep the car and drive it, your best option right now is a gas engine conversion. Not an insurmountable job, the dealers and Zone Service shops did them by the thousands when these engines crapped. Being a 78, it will be simpler because you don't have to fool with putting the car on an engine management computer like the 81-later cars had to do.

If you're determined to keep the Diesel, my advice is to buy something else like a Honda or similar asian schit for transportation, then learn all you can about these engines and repair it.

I know no one else here will say it, but I admire and respect you for trying to save and keep a Diesel Olds intact. The Diesel wasn't one of Oldsmobile's greater moments, but they were tasked with developing it and did well with it under the circumstances.

Let's put things in perspective. Supposing GM had tasked Chevrolet with the Diesel, and Chevy had tried basing it on THEIR 350??? They couldn't have put enough main cap or head bolts in it to hold it together. Before you start yammering about Chevy would have started with a clean sheet or done it differently and MADE it work, they would have been under the same constraints Oldsmobile was- they had to develop it using as much existing engine architecture and cost management as possible. GM knew the Olds 350 was a strong engine and Oldsmobile had the best engineering reputation in GM, so that's why they got to build the Diesel.

Olds64

Interesting post Rocketraider.

FWIW, I agree. If you want to keep your car the best bet would be to get a gas engine and put it in your car. There are NUMEROUS engines available. Even if you don't find a 350, or 403 from a 70s Oldsmobile you could always find a 307 out of an 80s Oldsmobile. The 307 isn't a good performance engine but it will move your car without any problem. My wife and I drove a 1990 Buick Estate Wagon with a 307 right after we got married. It was a decent car for only $1200.

joe_padavano

Targetmaster was a GM brand name for rebuilt engines. They sold a wide variety of gas and diesel engines, including Olds diesels. I can guarantee that the engine is question is NOT a 6.2 Chevy diesel, if that's where you were going. Such a swap would be prohibitively expensive. It's simply a stock replacement rebuilt.

Run to Rund

You won't know what is usable until the engine is disassembled, which by the way takes mostly the same tools as taking a gas Olds engine apart. You could have a broken crank and/or block. A 350 gas Olds engine is one possible swap; continuing with an Olds diesel could be expensive in terms of the fuel system and finding parts.

70 cutlass s

I agree with your parents you need another car. Every time I didn't listen to my mom I wish I did. If your going to swap engines put a gas engine in it.

bccan

Feelin lucky? Well do ya?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-O...item5ad4f67a96

jensenracing77

i love the diesel engine. the thing is, you have to know the week points and not treat it like a hot rod. with just easy driving, it will get 28 to 32 mile per gallon.(as long as the lock up is still working in the torque converter) my dad has and has had many of them. he and i, are no expert on them but have had great luck with them. and yes we had to do head gasket jobs on a couple of them when we got them but after putting new gaskets and ARP head bolts in them we had no problem with them. if you do fix this engine, when you get head gaskets they will ask what thickness you want. even if they don't ask, make sure they get you the thicker ones. also don't have the heads surfaced. if you take the engine out and completely rebuild it, ask the shop about fire ringing the block. this will fix all head gasket problems. my dad was telling me about a guy that he works with that put a turbo on one that was fire ringed and said the head gaskets hold up fine. i told him to get me a picture of it so i could post it here.

it will not be cheep so keep that in mind. also if you don't do it right or try to cut corners you will have to do it again. if you are not confident in your abilities then go for the gas engine. if you go the gas route, there are a couple other things you have to do. these cars are hydro boost power brakes. and alternators and transmission detente cables have to have special attention in the conversion.

Destructor

Supposedly from what I have read the later years of the olds diesel were much better years but by then the olds diesel reputation was the death of most passenger car diesels in the U.S. They can't be started cold then driven like a gas engine.

Diesel exhaust smells awesome, that alone may make it worth while.

rocketraider

GM itself didn't do much to help the Diesel cause. They advertised these engines as "low maintenance" when anyone familar with Diesels knows they have to have regular and reasonably intense maintenance to last.

Everyone I know who got long-mileage service out of one had extra fuel filters and religious oil changes, were very picky about where they bought fuel, and the cars were driven 50+ miles a day so everything got good and warmed up. One of the Mid Atlantic Chapter families had one they got close to 300K out of before it got rear-ended and totaled. The wife drove it 30 miles one way to work every day.

KRICHEN922

Thanks for all the input guys but gas is just out of the question. This (my exact car) was the first car of its kind to be sold in Wisconsin. It was the top o the line car on the showroom floor in 77-78. The original owner bought it then and I bough it from him. He is a WWII vet and kept the car on his property in his airplane hangar for 15 years. 3 years ago he fixed it up for his son (not really, but what he did helped a little) who is an alcoholic never picked it up, and got pissed when I bought it. Somewhere in that timespan the owners grandson drove it for 10 months but was ridiculed by his ignorant gas engine friends.

The engine is a good engine... its just that some parts were made too weak to handle the compression including the head bolts (yes, I plan on getting the ARP studs) and the head bolts werent long enough to fit the groove anyways. I do plan on taking the engine out and completely learning about it and fixing it up I just need to learn.

I have gotten advice from a local diesel mechanic who has worked extensively with this engine.

Plain and simple... Putting a gas engine in my baby would ruin the car's character and kill gas mileage.

The original owner had the targetmaster put in. I believe it is the 5.7 one but I am not sure at all. The owner is in florida on his annual vacation right now and I was unaware of that. He says he has the original 350 diesel lying around somewhere and until he gets back in April I have no way to contact him. But I promised him I'd take care of the DIESEL and keep the car true to what it is. I plan on restoration, and switching to a gas plays no part in that.

KRICHEN922

Pictures are hard to do right now. I gotta get the engine out and look for the broken parts. While the engine is out I'll probably fix the wiring problems and redo the interior and scuff sand the exterior and redo the paint on it. But with this economy its tough to find a job to support this endeavor. being a high school student its going to be rough. But I got time.

J-(Chicago)

I wish you luck.

KRICHEN922

Thanks everyone. Here are a few repair manuals Im looking at, which one is better?
http://www.jcwhitney.com/HAYNES_TOTA...;0;2006802;0;0


Or

http://www.jcwhitney.com/CHILTON_TOT...;0;2006793;0;0

J-(Chicago)

I'd look for a factory chassis service manual, and a Motors manual.

Haynes/Chilton usually just irritate me.

jensenracing77

X2

lshlsh2

x3 keep us posted.

rocketraider

Chilton will be the better of the two as they're based on factory service procedures, but agreed you should find yourself a 1978 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual and 1978 Fisher Body Manual. Those years will be cheap and they will have the factory troubleshooting and teardown service procedures- not only on the Diesel engine, but on all the car's other systems and components.

Including full-color wiring diagrams!

KRICHEN922

Right. Thanks for that. Why do they irritate you all? What exactly is the problem w/hanes chilton?

lshlsh2

alot of times just to general. They try and cover to many years. sometimes you have a problem that is specific just to that year and they won't have it.

joe_padavano

Don't waste a dime on any aftermarket service manuals. Get a factory Chassis Service Manual.

Olds64

IMHO, the Chilton's manual is good for "general service" of a daily driver car. I always buy a Chilton's manual for my daily driver. I have one right now for my wife's 2003 VW Beetle. I like them much more than the Haynes manual; however, the others do have a point. Nothing compares to the FSM.

The first thing I bought for my 71 98 was a FSM and Chassis manual.

KRICHEN922

I understand. I'll look for a few then post em up to see if I got the right ones

KRICHEN922

JC whitney doesn't have them I don't think Either that or this chat guy is slow. Help in locating a site I can pick these up on?

joe_padavano

There are nine on ebay right now, ranging from $9.99 to $29.99. You won't find new ones, as they are long out of print. You can also get scanned versions on CD, but I've had bad luck with these. Stick with the original paper copies.

joe_padavano

By the way, I used the following search input on ebay:

olds* manual (1978,78)

KRICHEN922

OK I'll try that. Thanks!

rocketraider

You can find them on ebay, or google "automobile literature" or "olds* service manual" and you should find some paper vendors who have them. I think you should be able to get a 1978 CSM and the Fisher manual for under $50 shipped to your door. Someone on here may have an extra laying around, and guy on 73-77olds.com was selling them for several different years a couple weeks back.

Chilton, Glenn and Motor service publications are designed for the aftermarket and DIY service industry and by necessity cover a lot of years and makes, and often only frequent service items. If you get one of those, get a Professional Trades Edition for the year of your car. But for what you need the factory CSM is the way to go.

KRICHEN922

Right. I'm using the olds* manual (1978,78) input and I'm completely overwhelmed. Nothing just straight out says Chassis Service Manual or Fischer Body manual. What should I buy thats up there right now?

KRICHEN922

Is this what I'm looking for?


and this?:

KRICHEN922

thoughts?