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I didn't like the casting - it looked very cheap, with a lot of rough flashing, and the cast heater hose nipples were horrendous. The closed impeller was a circular disc welded to the back of a stamped impeller and it looked as if it would rust off in no time.
Guys I did not read all the way though this thread so do not know where exactly where you, however my 67 runs a cool 150-180 in 100 degree heat in Texas, with 36 degrees total advance, bad boy 455, Mr. Gasket adjustable thermostat,stock fan blade and shroud with this Suburban radiator and reducer sleeves:https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-442-auto.html Just another idea to ponder!
I bought the Spectra CU165 for my 72CS with a Toro 455 , along with the 160 Thermostat , it seems to do pretty well . It gets pretty warm if I'm sitting at a light for a long time / stuck in traffic , but doesn't overheat . I would be interested in finding out just how hot it's getting . The 160 Thermostat really did the trick for me , it made a night and day difference . Since I had the blower motor / AC ducting off leaving a big hole in the firewall , my legs are now the temperature gauge . The one thing I learned is to burp all the air out of the system when you replace things , like the waterpump , radiator , and thermostat .
Napa makes a funnel that screws onto the radiator (works better with vertical cap replacement radiators) that you can overfill to add head pressure to help burp your system. Small vent holes in the thermostat also help allow air to get out of the block before the engine warms up, as does running your heater. Run the engine until the stat opens and you'll see the coolant level drop when it burps.
A warm engine at idle is generally lean fuel mixture or a vacuum leak. Mine overheats at cruise speed - total opposite.
I would be interested in finding out just how hot it's getting .
Installing a water temperature gauge is extremely easy. I put one in my car over 30 years ago and I can't imagine driving ANY vehicle without a temp gauge.
Napa makes a funnel that screws onto the radiator (works better with vertical cap replacement radiators) that you can overfill to add head pressure to help burp your system. Small vent holes in the thermostat also help allow air to get out of the block before the engine warms up, as does running your heater. Run the engine until the stat opens and you'll see the coolant level drop when it burps.
A warm engine at idle is generally lean fuel mixture or a vacuum leak. Mine overheats at cruise speed - total opposite.
Yes , I bought my burping funnel at Northern Tool I think . It comes with a bunch of different adapters so I can use it on all three of my cars .
My carb is out of adjustment / needs rebuild . I was going to take it to Sparky's this winter .
Last edited by oldsguybry; Sep 2, 2016 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: Misspelled word
The new water pump showed up today. They're all cast iron now, no more aluminum castings, so the heater hose fittings are pressed-in steel. The impeller is CNC aluminum, beautiful!
Unfortunately, the wrong pump was in the box. Hub height at 5 1/16" instead of 5 5/8", and the inlet was 2". Thanks to the holiday weekend, I won't have the right one until later next week.
BTW, Summit is lowering their price on this water pump by about $15. They had it set up wrong.
Last edited by distributorguy; Sep 2, 2016 at 01:39 PM.
The shorter ones seem to be iron, have been for a while. I am sure the long ones, Flowkooler, Milidon etc are all modified GMB pumps with a plate riveted on. My casting quality was decent, like I said 10 years. They have recently changed the plate added on. Mine sure didn't overcome under drive pulleys and a bad thermostat.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Sep 3, 2016 at 06:34 AM.
The casting is not the issue. Tha ability to push coolant in an effective manner is the issue. Flowkooler uses aluminum impellers on all their models now. No more welded or riveted steel impellers with a plate installed. Take a look at their website. They have made a few change sin the last 10 years.
Well, I'm not sure the new pump is better than the old one. It has a larger impeller, but likely not as efficient.
Due to a stat leak I ran out of time for a test drive last night, but I did install a new high flow 180 degree stat. It actually starts opening at 150. The 160 stat started opening at 160. I think the stat may have been a larger influence, despite being new.
It turns out my manifold wasn't milled properly and the larger OD stat actually contacted the side of the bore, not allowing it to sit flush in the stepped groove.
All this may be moot. I found out I have a "8" head on the driver's side, a "7" on the passenger side. Compression varies 14% bank to bank. I guess that explains the manifold leak I fixed, and possibly the heat. Who the hell would do such a thing???? I never even consider that stupid possibility. I have a line on a set of good "A" heads locally, and I have a Blockmaster in the shop to cut them down to spec. May as well pull the lump and go through it stem to stern, after I exhaust this cooling exercise.
Maintained 175-182 at all times, until I got on the freeway. Back up to 195-210 depending on speed (65-80). Cools back down to stat temp when I get down to 55 mph. And at those speeds its still running rich at 13:1.
Time to pull the motor.
With the two majorly different heads, pulling it sounds like a very good idea. It definitely could be internal friction causing heat. Looks like your old pump was an A/C heavy duty cooling pump as well.
Found a set of "A" heads locally, and a spare early short block with an N crank. The "rebuilt" engine in the car is now 100% suspect, despite good oil pressure. I suspect along with mismatched heads, I'll find horrible valvetrain geometry. I already know they reinstalled a used cam, doubt it has hardened seats in both heads. I can't wait to check valve lift across all valves. I bet that's the issue.
After spending hours designing a new cam for torque, it turns out Comp already made the same one. 42-220-4 looks like a torque monster with great vacuum for power brakes.
Hardened seats are rarely an issue in Olds heads, they don't melt away like brand c. You will need the Performer RPM intake to use those big block heads. Flat tops will put you in the high 8 to 1 with those A heads, pretty sure you know to mill them quite a bit for decent compression. I am will to bet either the factory pistons or huge dish replacements were used in your "rebuilt" engine. With that cam choice, I would mill the heads to 9 to 1 compression and leave it there, too small for anymore. I say more compression, a bigger cam with big block heads and more stall as well.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Sep 13, 2016 at 05:50 AM.
Yes I have a 200-4R set aside.
Big torque cam that works well with stock heads.
My guess is that the stock intake will work once the A heads are cut down to 64cc chambers. Just a guess. If not, yes I'll buy the Edelbrock but I want to see what the differences are. This will be a winter project on a different block than what's in the car. That way I don't disable an otherwise great car (if I keep it under 60 mph.)
I hear you, hate when a vehicle doesn't run. makes me want to find a cliff. The BBO ports are taller, stock manifold doesn't cover the top of the port, milling will help. I wouldn't run 9.5 to 1 with that cam unless you have 93 octane or better.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Sep 13, 2016 at 05:13 PM.
Why not? Cylinder pressures will be low - maybe 150-160 cranking. The only non-oxygenated fuel we have is premium, so that's what the car gets most of the time, but it does not need premium, nor will it at 9.5:1. I rebuild distributors for a living. As long as the timing is correct, its fine on regular until you get up over 10:1 with cranking compression over 175 (generally speaking). There are some lobe profiles that generate low cranking compression but much higher dynamic cylinder pressures. This isn't one of them.
I know running a lazy timing curve and cold plugs helped me a ton but felt more soggy especially part throttle. I am at 9.5 to 1 with an Edelbrock 204/214 cam, wanted to ping on 91 Octane Shell fuel, best fuel locally. I slowed the timing curve and put in very cold NGK 5670-8 plugs, helped a bunch but I needed to use the Kleenflo combustion chamber and remove the choke plate on my custom built Qjet. Unless 2 more degrees on the intake and 2 less on the exhaust along with a 110 vs a 114 LSA make a massive difference, stay conservative with compression. The Performer cam bleeds cranking compression if anything. Olds are supposed to be less quench sensitive, mine is around .065" with head gasket. My 5.9 magnum has the pistons .040" to .050" from the factory, so around .078" quench with .028" head gaskets with 9.6 to 1 if the EQ heads are 62cc and the small factory roller cam, it will be interesting. I guess you want a challenge.
I don't consider this a challenge, but then again I don't rely on "follow the leader" info that Google provides to put an engine together. There are tons of ways to skin a cat. All are effective in the end.
The other motor I'm assembling right now is a 15.2:1 Datsun 2L to race Bonneville. I also built a motor that mirrors the one in the land speed record Mini this year, but I built mine 3 years ago. Its a small 4 cylinder MG engine with a BMW motorcycle head - dual overhead cam and 4 valves per cylinder with Bosch EFI run by an aftermarket computer.
This is relatively easy. My cars don't ping. For years I drove an MGB with 207 psi cylinder pressures on pump gas - no pinging. Build a zero deck height motor with a dished piston if possible. Or flat top or dome - whatever you have to do to get deck height close to zero. Exposed cylinder walls absorb heat and WILL cause pinging. Get the piston far enough down the hole at TDC and you can get overheating too.
The current motor in my MGB runs zero deck height, a 7cc dish and 9.5:1 on pump regular. 170 psi cylinder pressures at idle. With a custom roller cam, which has never been done before.
Don't look at timing curves as being "lazy." There's correct, and there's off by a few degrees in either direction. If correct is 25 degrees at idle and 30 degrees all-in, then that's correct. Depends on the engine design, how you drive the car, what rpm range you use, etc...
I designed my cam as a 111 LSA, Comp makes a virtually identical cam at 110, so that's what I'll use.
The cam kit and adjustable rocker kit are on order. I have a line on a set of #7s and A heads this weekend, plus possibly a rebuilt short block that needs a few correction (nice to start with clean parts anyway) on the cheap.
SO here's the report on the engine build:
After a couple hundred miles on the new engine and FITech efi system, its pretty freakin' great! No more overheating. Up a solid 25% in power, as a low estimate at the rear wheels. No more running hot. It stays at stat temps. All the time. Any speed. I suspect screwed up valve lash and an old worn out cam had a lot to do with it. Mismatched heads sure didn't help. I plan to tear into the heads and spec/degree the old cam this weekend.
I know Cutlassefi doesn't like the package I assembled, but I couldn't have expected it to run any better. Timing is set at 14 at idle, cam retarded 8 degrees, 32 degrees total timing with no vacuum advance. The starter fights the compression a little, so I know its set just about perfect. No pinging on premium, 175+ psi cylinder pressures at crank. Smoke the tires at will, with a 3.55 posi. The longer I run the efi, the better it runs.
After I dig through the old motor I'll have a better idea how many assembly or rebuild faults there were, and I'll likely be able to better guess where the heat was coming from. I suspect a leakdown test will show a really bad valve job, and I suspect the cam will be seriously advanced.
So I mapped out the cam in the old motor - which appears to be a stock late 70's cam? .395" vlave lift (roughly) intake and exhaust, 112 centerline intake and exhaust, installed "straight up." Boring.
Leakdown testing showed 93-98% seal on all cylinders, which is good.
The valve lash was very tight on a few valves, probably a result from a mediocre valve job on the mismatched heads - likely the main problem, since there was no other smoking gun. The cylinder walls look great and the block is still very clean. Oil pressure was very good. I think I have a decent short block here, although I'd deck the block and install flat tops and a good set of heads. And a cam. Then it'd be a strong motor.
The new engine currently runs below stat temp (when its in the 60's outside) while its on the freeway. I can't wait to see what it does when its back up in the 80's and 90's.
. The one thing I learned is to burp all the air out of the system when you replace things , like the waterpump , radiator , and thermostat .
