any alternative to MONDELLO???
#1
any alternative to MONDELLO???
hey all. I just rebuilt my 70' 350 4bbl to stock specs and stuck in a jm 20 22. the motor is fully assembled on the stand but the valve covers are not bolted on yet. i bolted the stock rockers and bridges on and shortly found out i would need an adjustable rocker set. i called mondello and i think they wanted more than $300. is there any other company that makes what i will need? im also open to suggestions on how to adjust the new rockers as i never used adjustables before. thanks.
#2
Why do you need adjustable rockers? Valve lash on an Oldsmobile is hydraulic.
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
#3
Why do you need adjustable rockers? Valve lash on an Oldsmobile is hydraulic.
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
#4
The part of the stud that screws into the head is 5/16". The top is 3/8" to accommodate the rockers.
#6
Why do you need adjustable rockers? Valve lash on an Oldsmobile is hydraulic.
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
FWIW, I installed the Comp Cams roller tip rocker arm kit on my 455. Here is the small block kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...ake/oldsmobile
#8
Your machinist can check the condition of your springs. It's mostly one of those MAW things when rebuilding your engine unless some of them are bad.
Last edited by Olds64; January 23rd, 2017 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Oops!
#9
hey all. I just rebuilt my 70' 350 4bbl to stock specs and stuck in a jm 20 22. the motor is fully assembled on the stand but the valve covers are not bolted on yet. i bolted the stock rockers and bridges on and shortly found out i would need an adjustable rocker set. i called mondello and i think they wanted more than $300. is there any other company that makes what i will need? im also open to suggestions on how to adjust the new rockers as i never used adjustables before. thanks.
#10
#13
MAW= Might as well
It starts the slippery slope to a frame off resteration. You know start with somthing small and might as well do this, then that turning that small project into something major.
It starts the slippery slope to a frame off resteration. You know start with somthing small and might as well do this, then that turning that small project into something major.
#14
lol gocha I know how that goes. I know somebody somewhere is going to hate me for this car but... a few years ago when I was a senior in high school I took the body shop program, I took my 79 T top Cordoba in to scuff it and make a color change, that's it right. with in a month the car was completely striped to the unibody and I was fixing everything hah.
#15
thank you very much. just got off the phone with oldsrocketparts. WAY more courtesy over the phone and didn't try to upsell me a metric screwdriver to install muffler bearings. im going to them from now on. funny to find out that they sell the same products with out monopoly prices.
#16
Many things to consider here, so bear with me and please don't hate me for posting this.
- You say the engine was rebuilt to factory specs. Did you use the L2321F pistons with 6cc dishes and the correct compression height? If not, your engine is likely not at the factory compression ratio. Aftermarket cast pistons are all short on compression height, and the readily available pistons also have too-large 24 cc dishes which puts the actual compression ratio in the high 7.xx to low 8.xx range unless a lot of machining is dome to the block and/or heads.
- The JM 20-22 camshaft has the following specs:
0.496 / 0.520 lift, 300°/310° advertised duration, 224° / 234° duration @ .050" lift.
- If your engine has low compression due to the above conditions, that cam is way too big and will not have much low end power (engine overcammed).
- You should ALWAYS use valve springs that are matched to the camshaft, and always replace 40+ year old factory springs as they are likely worn and won't allow the engine to rev without floating the valves.
- You may not need adjustable rockers, just a different length push rod. After an engine rebuild, you should use a checking push rod to determine the correct push rod length. Machining the block deck, milling the heads, using a camshaft with a different base circle diameter than factory, and different thickness head gaskets can all contribute to needing a specific push rod length.
#17
I didn't see it explicitly stated above, but, as a rule of thumb, do not deal in any way with Mondello Performance Products in Paso Robles, CA - Before his death, Joe sold his business to these guys, and we see repeated posts on these boards from people who were screwed by them.
On the other hand, his son Bernard runs Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises in Corona, CA, and he is 100% alright.
- Eric
On the other hand, his son Bernard runs Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises in Corona, CA, and he is 100% alright.
- Eric
#18
Many things to consider here, so bear with me and please don't hate me for posting this.
- You say the engine was rebuilt to factory specs. Did you use the L2321F pistons with 6cc dishes and the correct compression height? If not, your engine is likely not at the factory compression ratio. Aftermarket cast pistons are all short on compression height, and the readily available pistons also have too-large 24 cc dishes which puts the actual compression ratio in the high 7.xx to low 8.xx range unless a lot of machining is dome to the block and/or heads.
- The JM 20-22 camshaft has the following specs:
0.496 / 0.520 lift, 300°/310° advertised duration, 224° / 234° duration @ .050" lift.
- If your engine has low compression due to the above conditions, that cam is way too big and will not have much low end power (engine overcammed).
- You should ALWAYS use valve springs that are matched to the camshaft, and always replace 40+ year old factory springs as they are likely worn and won't allow the engine to rev without floating the valves.
- You may not need adjustable rockers, just a different length push rod. After an engine rebuild, you should use a checking push rod to determine the correct push rod length. Machining the block deck, milling the heads, using a camshaft with a different base circle diameter than factory, and different thickness head gaskets can all contribute to needing a specific push rod length.
i have a 70 4bbl motor that blew the timing chain at 91000, it was always very well maintained and the crank case was spotless inside but it had a lot of short run local driving (prob what killed the chain) now i bought another 70 2bbl motor that was a good core motor. i used the 2bbl motor for the rebuild. i hot tanked the block, gave it a quick hone, did all new bearings, rings, gaskets, and i stole the pistons and intake off the blown chain 4bbl engine as the pistons were the flat top style and were in real good shape. as for head gaskets i used the blue felpro types, if that helps. please don't slap me too hard for honing & swapping pistons. i know if i had the money i would have bored and bought new slugs. whats your thoughts?
#19
I didn't see it explicitly stated above, but, as a rule of thumb, do not deal in any way with Mondello Performance Products in Paso Robles, CA - Before his death, Joe sold his business to these guys, and we see repeated posts on these boards from people who were screwed by them.
On the other hand, his son Bernard runs Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises in Corona, CA, and he is 100% alright.
- Eric
On the other hand, his son Bernard runs Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises in Corona, CA, and he is 100% alright.
- Eric
#20
That may be a bit much cam for the compression ratio but it's definitely a lot better than I originally thought it was.
#21
hah thanks I guess lol. yeah man when I took the heads off I was like you got to be kidding me, I had no idea the 2bbl used those big dishes. I bought the 70' specifically because I figured if I swapped the intake I could have a factory 310 out of the box but I was wrong. I know this is getting off topic but is there really any difference between #5 & 6 heads?
#26
Cam
Too much cam. Talk to Mark aka CutlassEFI for an Erson grind or go with a JM 18-20 if you are committed to an Engle cam (Mondello JM cams are reboxed Engle cams). Your stock springs will be fine with the 18-20.
What is you location?
What is you location?
#27
ya see its a funny thing, I wanted to go with the 18 20 but lynn told me over the phone id be better off with the 20 22. I figured well hey they cost the same, so why would he bs me right. now I just talked to oldsrocketparts today and they said lynn was probably out of the 18 20s and pushed the 20 22. now the whole motor is assembled ( valve covers are off still ) and im past the point of no return. i just hope it runs decent in the end. i forgot to mention i built this motor to replace a severely worn out 307 for my 1990 buick electra wagon.
#28
i know 5s are 68-69 and 6s are 70 its just everywhere in history ive always heard everyone praise the 5s but never include the 6s and to my knowledge the 68-70 engines are the same. im not sure on this but i think the 7s and 7as are the same just with hardened seats. let me know if ive got that wrong please
#29
I doubt you could tell the difference between 5s, 6s, and 7s in terms of combustion chambers and runners.
6s, 7s, and 7As did have variations in valve spring pocket depth, with 5s having shallow, 6s having intake deeper (for a rotator), and 7s having both deep (for 2 rotators), if my memory holds.
Oh, and do what these guys say with the cam - it's a lot easier to swap it in now than to do it later when you really hate the way the car runs.
- Eric
6s, 7s, and 7As did have variations in valve spring pocket depth, with 5s having shallow, 6s having intake deeper (for a rotator), and 7s having both deep (for 2 rotators), if my memory holds.
Oh, and do what these guys say with the cam - it's a lot easier to swap it in now than to do it later when you really hate the way the car runs.
- Eric
#30
#31
Fyi
i know 5s are 68-69 and 6s are 70 its just everywhere in history ive always heard everyone praise the 5s but never include the 6s and to my knowledge the 68-70 engines are the same. im not sure on this but i think the 7s and 7as are the same just with hardened seats. let me know if ive got that wrong please
You never mentioned your location.
#32
sounds like you guys are pretty confident in this cam not working out. damn... ive got some thinking and strategizing to do. im from Harrisburg pa btw
#33
#34
I doubt you could tell the difference between 5s, 6s, and 7s in terms of combustion chambers and runners.
6s, 7s, and 7As did have variations in valve spring pocket depth, with 5s having shallow, 6s having intake deeper (for a rotator), and 7s having both deep (for 2 rotators), if my memory holds.
Oh, and do what these guys say with the cam - it's a lot easier to swap it in now than to do it later when you really hate the way the car runs.
- Eric
6s, 7s, and 7As did have variations in valve spring pocket depth, with 5s having shallow, 6s having intake deeper (for a rotator), and 7s having both deep (for 2 rotators), if my memory holds.
Oh, and do what these guys say with the cam - it's a lot easier to swap it in now than to do it later when you really hate the way the car runs.
- Eric
#35
Without saying anything downright libelous, if you search this board, you will find many first hand accounts of people who describe behavior on the part of Mondello Performance Products that most would describe as criminal or bordering on it.
- Eric
- Eric
#36
yeah the guy at oldsrocketparts filled me in on some of what goes on at mondellos. they shouldn't even be aloud to run a Renault or Peugeot supplier. hey how do you get your name to always show up at the bottom of all your posts?
#40
455s are 5/16" as well. Unless you have A heads. As I said, the Comp Cams kit you mentioned will work well for the OP application. The part of the stud that threads into the head is 5/16" with the Comp Cam kits.